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Debate: Autoimmune or immunodeficiency?

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 4/7/2009 7:11 PM (GMT 0)
Our bodies are so complex that it's no wonder they haven't been able to figure us IBDers out and cure us all already. There is so much research going on and on so many different levels too. Much of it points to how we react to bacterias differently than people that don't have an IBD...Studies like "Reactive Gut Inflammation by Bacterial Products", "The effects of nerve growth factos and probiotics in models of intestinal inflammation", "Prebiotics and experimental colitis", "The Archaeal Microbiota in Inflammatory Bowel Disease", "Response of neuroendocrine cells to intestinal inflammation", "Mechanisms of intestinal susceptibility to bacterial pathogens: implications for IBD", and there are many other avenues they are researching as well which I'm sure are all part of the puzzle like, "Immunopathogenesis of IBD (Role of cytokines)", "Epigenetic Regulations of the Tumour Necrosis Factor Alpha Gene in Crohn's" and many many more.

:)
Posted 4/7/2009 7:38 PM (GMT 0)
pb4, I finally had time to go back and read that article you posted a link to yesterday, and while it was interesting, I still didn't see a thing in there that talks about a link between IBS and IBD. So what gives? Also, the link to the webmd thing didn't say that IBD was a risk factor for IBS.
Posted 4/7/2009 7:56 PM (GMT 0)
I'm inclined to subscribe to the hypothesis that chronic ulcerative colitis, in most instances, results from a severe disturbance of the micro-ecology of the large bowel. It might be the case that a certain species of traditionally non-pathogenic bacteria has been permitted to proliferate to such an extent that an immune response is generated. This position is supported by the astounding success of fecal bacteriotherapy, the usefulness of certain antibiotics (metronidazole), and the generally positive reaction to probiotic formulations.
Posted 4/7/2009 9:43 PM (GMT 0)

fruitgirl said...
pb4, I finally had time to go back and read that article you posted a link to yesterday, and while it was interesting, I still didn't see a thing in there that talks about a link between IBS and IBD. So what gives? Also, the link to the webmd thing didn't say that IBD was a risk factor for IBS.

Yesterday was a bit of a brain-fog day for me so I have no clue what I was getting at with those 2 links (the first link was in regards to immune rewsponse and IBD, just some general info on the topic)....as far as the IBS-IBD thing according to the CCFA...Some physicians believe it's possible for certain patients with IBD to also have IBS. Others think it is highly unlikely that the two conditions would coexist, and the topic is highly controversial. For these patients, physicians need to be very careful in managing treatment, so the IBD is not undertreated with antidiarrheals and antispasmodics and the IBS is not overtreated with immunosuppressives.  My own GI (a top lead researcher for crohn's and colitis in Canada) is open minded and believes that the 2 can coexist, from his experiance with research he believes that IBS could very well be triggered for those IBD patients that have had their disease active for a long time it could inturn bring on IBS, of course much still needs to learned about both conditions.  Personally I find it so odd the 2 conditions have almost identical symptoms (minus bloody D or blood in general with the exception of bleeding hemmies) yet one has no inflammation/polyps/ulcers involved but can still give practically identical symptoms, it's mind blowing really and it's no wonder many get the 2 confused.  It really sucks having both though.

:)

Posted 4/7/2009 9:56 PM (GMT 0)

Delarge said...
I'm inclined to subscribe to the hypothesis that chronic ulcerative colitis, in most instances, results from a severe disturbance of the micro-ecology of the large bowel. It might be the case that a certain species of traditionally non-pathogenic bacteria has been permitted to proliferate to such an extent that an immune response is generated. This position is supported by the astounding success of fecal bacteriotherapy, the usefulness of certain antibiotics (metronidazole), and the generally positive reaction to probiotic formulations.

Yes, researchers have definitely ventured down that alley as well, they still are, much needs to be learned as there are so many pieces to the IBD puzzle.

One researcher is studying endocrinological regulation of gut inflammation by serotonn (5-hydroxytryptamine of 5-ht).  He says, under the microscope CD and UC are characterized by chronic inflammation.  One of the most common types of cells present in the GI system is known as enterochromaffin cells or EC cells.  EC cells represent one group of GI endocrine cells.  Endocrine glands are glands that produce chemicals which are secreted directly into tissues, or into the bloodstream.  Two examples of endocrine glands are the thyroid gland and the adrenal glands.  The EC cells of the GI tract are not compacted into a single gland, but rather are spread throughout the gut.

EC cells are the main gut producers of a chemical known as serotonin (AKA 5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT).  Five-HT is an important molecule in normal GI functions but also in producing inflammation.  It is very likely that 5-HT does this by activating immune cells and also by promoting their survival, and recent preliminary studies in a mouse model of IBD have suggested an important role for this chemical.

The aim of this study is to try and clarify the role of 5-HT in the activation and survival of immune cells in relation to the regulation of inflammation in the intestine.  It's possible that better understanding of the role of EC cells and 5-HT will lead to chemical pathways which can then be used as targets for new treatments.

:)

Posted 4/7/2009 11:17 PM (GMT 0)
Ok, thanks for clarifying, pb4...I wanted to make sure it wasn't me who was cracking up! :)

I totally believe that IBS an IBD can coexist, I just don't think that they're *related*. There's a big difference between those two thoughts, IMO.
Posted 4/8/2009 12:06 AM (GMT 0)

VerM said...
You know when I have say the flu or am sick in bed for a few days I find my bm's get better like way better in only say 2 days. I have always noticed that, may be from doing nothing, so no stress, but also might be the immune systems switches to fight the sickness so it pulls away from colon? Just a thought, anyone else experience this?

Same thing happens to me.

Posted 4/8/2009 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
I don't think they are related either (especially in the fact that not every IBDer will get IBS) but it is so weird how they share such common symptoms...no, it was me cracking up I get brain fog issues, they'd be much worse if I didn't exersise regularly and eat as healthy as I do.

:)
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