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It's miracle, but I'm in remission

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Posted 2/23/2011 12:29 AM (GMT 0)
I'm not fan of herbal medicine personally. That being said, I will not rule out the effectiveness of certain botanical elements to have effect or relieve symptoms. Gavriel's modus operandi on every thread is to bash anything you are doing to treat ulcerative colitis as ineffective, unless it is Remicade. He is only adding "or Humira" to his posts now after I prodded him for pushing Remicade as the only solution. Anyway, let me get a bit more to the point. There are hundreds of major drugs manufactured by pharmaceutical companies that are made from plant compounds. Now, if we were to ignore the thousands of years the chinese have effectively used botanical elements to treat symptoms of a whole variety of diseases then sure maybe we can say chinese medicine is "110%" quackery. History and facts, what a drag.
Posted 2/23/2011 12:36 AM (GMT 0)
That's great you have such a strong opinion on what works for you. I applaud that and hope you are in remission! But torque's me to see someone knock what works for someone else. If there is proof that TCM doesn't work, 100% of the time, please show it

I see my CCFA referred TCM every two weeks. He doesn't tell me to sit in room 101, he gives me herbs. There's quite a difference there.

In seriousness, I'd like to see proof, cause it would save me a lot of time and money. But if there is a chance it'll work for me, and he can cure my UC, and I can have a normal life off of western meds,I'm going this route and giving it a shot.

Curious, have you ever seen the movie heal your body by louise hay?
Posted 2/23/2011 12:43 AM (GMT 0)

follyism said...
I'm not fan of herbal medicine personally. That being said, I will not rule out the effectiveness of certain botanical elements to have effect or relieve symptoms. Gavriel's modus operandi on every thread is to bash anything you are doing to treat ulcerative colitis as ineffective, unless it is Remicade. He is only adding "or Humira" to his posts now after I prodded him for pushing Remicade as the only solution. Anyway, let me get a bit more to the point. There are hundreds of major drugs manufactured by pharmaceutical companies that are made from plant compounds. Now, if we were to ignore the thousands of years the chinese have effectively used botanical elements to treat symptoms of a whole variety of diseases then sure maybe we can say chinese medicine is "110%" quackery. History and facts, what a drag.

Do you really want to argue with me with respect to the validity of Chinese "medicine"? Anything effective from the Pharmaecopia can be researched and proven. If "herbal medicine" is effective, it will be researched and exploited eventually. Of course there are treatments for countless illnesses that we've yet to discover. Perhaps some of these treatments will validate some components of the Pharmaecopia. Until that time, though, I will not trust my health with fairy tales or fake doctors. If the Chinese has "thousands of years" of successfully treating illnesses (and the only illnesses any of us in here really care about are UC or Crohn's disease), then let them put some of their "cures" up for scrutiny. If they've got anything legitimate (and they don't!), then allow them to become multi-millionaires by marketing their cures.

As far as me telling people of the benefits of Remicade or Humira, let me assure you that nothing I ever say has ever had or will ever have anything to do with you or anything you say. Feel free to continue to suggest that I am some sort of undercover pharmaceutical agent trying to sell people medicines. I will allow my posts to stand for themselves and allow the community in here to decide for themselves. I cannot stop the ignorant or the desperate from chasing ghosts in their search for answers to their illnesses, but I promise you I will try. The only reason I do so, the ONLY reason, is because I care and I sympathize.
Posted 2/23/2011 12:45 AM (GMT 0)

beachlife said...
That's great you have such a strong opinion on what works for you. I applaud that and hope you are in remission! But torque's me to see someone knock what works for someone else. If there is proof that TCM doesn't work, 100% of the time, please show it

I see my CCFA referred TCM every two weeks. He doesn't tell me to sit in room 101, he gives me herbs. There's quite a difference there.

In seriousness, I'd like to see proof, cause it would save me a lot of time and money. But if there is a chance it'll work for me, and he can cure my UC, and I can have a normal life off of western meds,I'm going this route and giving it a shot.

Curious, have you ever seen the movie heal your body by louise hay?

Good luck showing real proof that there's a valid TCM-treatment out there for UC or Crohn's patients. I'll give you a head's up - there isn't any besides online forum anecdotes like those found in this thread. These anecdotes are of course complete with the inevitable "update" that that the user has yet again fallen into a flare.
Posted 2/23/2011 6:52 AM (GMT 0)
spluxa - how is your diet? Excellent you are down to less meds!!

Gavriel - You sound like the doctors who have told me diet plays no role in UC. If you're going to chime in and bash someone's attempt to heal themselves(especially one that is working for the OP), would be nice to have info/websites/url's to back it up. Not just a comment of "what you're trying is quackery". Not helpful.

Testimonials from one doctor: http://naturalmedicinedirect.com/testimonials Proof?

btw, you didn't answer my question about the Louise Hay movie. Worst case you lose 87min of your life. Best case: knowledge
Posted 2/23/2011 11:44 AM (GMT 0)
yeah  That is great.  I have been in remission for 2 months now.  I am currently taking tumeric, 1 shot every 2 weeks of hurmira 2 packets a day of VSL#3DS daily, and 9 mg of endocort daily, also finally getting weaned off predinson 2.5 mg every other day.   After 3 years of being afraid of going an where, for fear of the mess and embarassment, of a flare when I am out in public, I was becoming a hermit.  Even at home sometimes could not make it to  restroom. 
Posted 2/23/2011 2:10 PM (GMT 0)

follyism said...
I'm not fan of herbal medicine personally. That being said, I will not rule out the effectiveness of certain botanical elements to have effect or relieve symptoms. Gavriel's modus operandi on every thread is to bash anything you are doing to treat ulcerative colitis as ineffective, unless it is Remicade. He is only adding "or Humira" to his posts now after I prodded him for pushing Remicade as the only solution. Anyway, let me get a bit more to the point. There are hundreds of major drugs manufactured by pharmaceutical companies that are made from plant compounds. Now, if we were to ignore the thousands of years the chinese have effectively used botanical elements to treat symptoms of a whole variety of diseases then sure maybe we can say chinese medicine is "110%" quackery. History and facts, what a drag.

I agree.  There are thousands of plant derived pharmaceuticals that are marketed by drug companies.  The drug companies are not selling the extracted herb for good reason.  The "natural" herb is expensive to process, has a limited shelf life and is limited by the amount of plants that are grown.  The drug companies synthesize the ingredients to make them more manufacturable in large quantities and with a longer shelf life.  They also patent that formula whereas the herb is not patentable.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

Posted 2/23/2011 3:03 PM (GMT 0)
Gavrel, I have not tried Remicade or Humira, and I'm not going to try them as long as possible. Yes, I may assume I've got remission all of sudden after 4 years, just because UC decided to take a break from me. Oh, and it happened next week after I started to take the herbs…hm..interesting. Ok, maybe these herbs will not cure me or even stop working after while, but I WILL take this chance to be in remission as loon as it let me WITHOUT pills or half douse. And I don't believe that Chinese medicine (much older then Western) will make me worth then Remicade or Humira. I will poison my organs with it after I try all natural staff. And yes, I still believe in miracle and cure. But I'm not pushing you to believe in it or use it. That's all up to everybody and what they believe. Even though, like someone said before about placebo effect, isn't it great to get into remission (may be not long one) just with you believes, and not medicine. :-) )
And again, I'm just sharing my experience, that's all. I told my GI about that when she was drawing my blood, and she said: Whatever it takes! (which was surprise for me, but I guess even GIs giving up on us with UC LOL).

Songlady, I start getting a little bleeding and this "noise" on my left side, which were gone after I started take 4 pills again.

Beachlife, I haven't seen movie but I read few of Louise Hay books, and I agree that all in our head, and may be that's why I still believe in miracle. It's actually helped me when I was 9 month pregnant with my second child and getting mortgage, closing and moving :-) ) That was disaster, but I managed think positive and not getting stress, so my UC wouldn't bother me really bad when I had my baby boy :-) ))) Oh, and meditation works too!

Garvel, what do you think about meditation? Or you against to makes people stress less, and they stop using some med which you scientists love? :-) (sorry, I couldn't stop myself from sarcasm)

Post Edited (spluxa) : 2/23/2011 9:03:07 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/23/2011 11:24 PM (GMT 0)
spluxa - I would hate to see you or others suffer needlessly because of an irrational phobia of conventional medicine and/or an ignorant belief in Chinese "medicine". That's the only reason I say the things I do. I don't enjoy arguing or debating with people, but I don't want UC-sufferers to suffer more than they need to for silly reasons. I sincerely worry that the choices you are making and the choices that other people take to avoid conventional treatments are all costs puts you and others are risk of further damage of the colon, and more time of your life lost in agony and pain. Generally speaking, the flares take a toll on your health, specifically on your colon. The more flares you go through the worse it is. I only post here because I want fellow UC-patients such as yourself and others to do BETTER, not WORSE.

And placing your trust in false Chinese "medicine" certainly can cause you much more harm than Remicade or Humira, by preventing you from recovering properly and allowing you to spiral into yet another flare, causing even more damage (perhaps permanent) to your colon. And that is to say nothing of the precious time in your life that will be somewhat lost.

As far as meditation goes, if it works, the go for it. We know that psychological stress is an aggravating factor for many people with UC. If meditation serves as a tool through which you manage and lower psychological stress, then of course you should do it. Moreover, meditation has a lot of evidence supporting its abilities to manage psychological (and therefore, often enough, indirectly affecting physical stress). I also respect prayer. I hope you feel better soon.
Posted 2/23/2011 11:50 PM (GMT 0)
My mom has Hepatitis C. She wasn't eligible for western treatment due to her age. The western treatment would have extended her life for up to two years more years. She was given about a year to live. That was some eight years ago. Herbal medications are what are keeping her alive.

Yes. Herbal medications can be dangerous. It is important to research the herbs before taking them if you do decide to go this route. However, herbs can also save or extend your life.

As for many of the meds that GIs are prescribing us. They don't treat the disease and they come with side effects. If they weren't risky and if they worked, we wouldn't be looking into alternative treatments.

I abused antibiotics for most of my life. It ate up the bacteria in my colon. Fecal transplantation put bacteria back into my colon, bacteria that had been lost due to the antibiotics. I'm in remission due to fecal transplantation, probiotics, and diet. Is there a western medicine today that can do this? I think not.

Half of my family lives in China and Taiwan. They swear by Chinese herbal medicine.

I would try Chinese herbal medicine if my current alternative treatments didn't work. In fact, I was going to, but it turned out I didn't have to. I will never take Remicade, Humira, or another round of pred. If it gets to that point, then that means none of my alternative treatments work. I'll get surgery.

Post Edited (subdued) : 2/23/2011 4:59:24 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/24/2011 12:10 AM (GMT 0)
Garviel, GIs just giving meds not even know if it will help, then next one, then next one...common, just admit it, it DOESN'T work 100%. One can get better from asacol, and another only with colon removal. So, why bother and trust your medicine? As this said, I would like to stop arguing with you about Chinese vs Western medicine cos we will never agree to each other. And by he way, I AM feeling good, which I never felt with your meds Sorry, but it's true! :)

suddued, I totally agree with you! yeah turn
Posted 2/24/2011 12:22 AM (GMT 0)
spluxa, I support your use of Traditional Chinese Medicine. I am open to and appreciate hearing about other people's experiences in treating their UC. I also wish the arguing would stop. Most of the people who post on this forum are knowledgeable enough to make informed decisions and do research on their own if they are considering a non-traditional approach. It is also great to hear first hand experience like yours!
Posted 2/24/2011 7:49 AM (GMT 0)
Spluxa - Meditation is great, indeed. I hope to learn more in an upcoming class. Restorative/Self-Healing is what interests me. Did you hear about the guy who was told to gangrene leg by 3 NY doctors. Instead he turned to his belief system, meditation, and the gangrene leg healed itself:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20101226/ts_dailybeast/11587_canmeditationcuredisease
Posted 2/24/2011 12:57 PM (GMT 0)

spluxa said...
Garviel, GIs just giving meds not even know if it will help, then next one, then next one...common, just admit it, it DOESN'T work 100%. One can get better from asacol, and another only with colon removal. So, why bother and trust your medicine? As this said, I would like to stop arguing with you about Chinese vs Western medicine cos we will never agree to each other. And by he way, I AM feeling good, which I never felt with your meds Sorry, but it's true! :)

suddued, I totally agree with you! yeah turn

I never suggested that conventional treatments had 100% success rates or that they were risk-free. What I did suggest, and I stand by this position, is that these treatments are the best options we have. Remicade's success rate with patients of UC, meaning how many UC-patients self-report significant improvements in their quality of life as well as improvements notices via other diagnostics such as colonoscopies, is about 80%. Unfortunately, about 25-30% of these patients eventually stop responding positively to the drug. Still, that's quite a high success-rate and in the eyes of any rational person, it's a chance worth taking. Humira's success rate is similar. Yes, these drugs come with certain risks, but what options do we have? These are treatments proven to be effective with thorough research and evidence backing them up. We need to make the most of a bad situation, that's the hand we were dealt in this life as UC-sufferers.

If the "herbs" you recommend were put to scrutiny, I'd bet my next month's salary that they wouldn't do any better than a placebo. Despite that, I am glad you feel better, although I am quite certain you're just going through the inevitable cycle of UC, which typically has periods of symptoms and then periods of "remission". My advice to you is to look for a real treatment now to prevent the more-than-likely inevitable flare you will fall into in the future. Try Remicade or Humira, and stop gambling with your health and time by using fake treatments from fake doctors.
Posted 2/24/2011 1:01 PM (GMT 0)

Scarecrow said...
I agree. There are thousands of plant derived pharmaceuticals that are marketed by drug companies. The drug companies are not selling the extracted herb for good reason. The "natural" herb is expensive to process, has a limited shelf life and is limited by the amount of plants that are grown. The drug companies synthesize the ingredients to make them more manufacturable in large quantities and with a longer shelf life. They also patent that formula whereas the herb is not patentable.

There is no question that many conventional treatments have relationships to chemical compounds found in nature. I never said otherwise. What I did say is that if there are natural herbs out there that can be used towards the treatment of UC, then allow someone or some company to exploit this knowledge, put the treatment through the proper research channels, and then market the drug and make hundreds of millions of dollars. For your information, identified and isolated plant compounds can certainly be patented (for better or for worse). Anything of value in TCM can be exploited and patented, the problem is, it's 99.9% quackery.
Posted 2/24/2011 1:42 PM (GMT 0)
 

"For your information, identified and isolated plant compounds can certainly be patented"

Wrong, You can patent the extraction process NOT the component of the plant.

Posted 2/24/2011 2:08 PM (GMT 0)
Gavriel, Here is a link to Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center's web page which provides "evidence-based information about herbs, botanicals, supplements, and more."
Many of the herbs listed are used for UC: boswellia, curcumin/tumeric. This is a reputable "Western" medical institution which recognizes the use of herbs, etc. in treatment.
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11570.cfm
Posted 2/24/2011 3:23 PM (GMT 0)
Before you all jump down Gavriel's throat, just remember that
this is a forum where people share their experiences and opinions.

It's all about checks and balances, eg. for every hyped-up '30 bananas a day' 'belief system' (yeah really)
there has to be somebody to counter all the b*lls**t. Gavriel may come across as a wet blanket to some but
I believe he's been there done it, and bought the proverbial tee-shirt. How can you blame his skepticism to some
of these Chinese/herbal 'remedies'?

There very well may be a lot of effective ancient Chinese natural medicines but I also know
that the Chinese also have an irrational penchant for ground-up TIGER BONES and RHINO HORNS.

Even my own (Chinese) GP cannot explain that one.
Posted 2/24/2011 4:47 PM (GMT 0)
Mackster. I have a problem with (Gavriel's) inflammatory language that is repeated throughout several threads. ie: "ignorant"-"delusional"- "snake oil salesman", "quakery", "over-inflated sense of ego". I find it very negative and counter-productive to a thoughtful and respectful dialogue. Just my opinion. It is wearing on me. I don't profess to buy into every alternative treatment but I also don't feel the need to continually engage in verbal combat. Just agree to disagree and move on.
Posted 2/24/2011 5:04 PM (GMT 0)

Scarecrow said...
"For your information, identified and isolated plant compounds can certainly be patented"

Wrong, You can patent the extraction process NOT the component of the plant.

Are you sure? Perhaps I stand corrected. I do know that identified genes from animals and plants can be patented. For curiousity's sake, perhaps we should research this further. I think you're wrong.
Posted 2/24/2011 5:57 PM (GMT 0)
You are a tough sell. Her is a list of herbs from the first page. If you can get a patent on any one of them, I'll give you a million dollars. Good luck.

radix bupleuri
rhizoma atractylodis macrocephalae
radix paeoniae alba
poriaherba menthae
herba menthae
radix angelicae sinensis
radix saussureae
fructus crataegi
fructus aurantii
rhizoma phragmitis -> removed Feb1 -> replaced with -> Semen Plantaginis (Plantain Seed)
pericarpium citri reticulatae
Herba Patriniae Seu Thlaspi
caulis sargentodoxa???
radix glycyrrhizae
Semen Armeniacae Amarum
Posted 2/24/2011 7:07 PM (GMT 0)
I'm not sure about the last item on that list.   Armenian semen?  whoa...
Posted 2/24/2011 7:20 PM (GMT 0)
haha....interesting that perception thing....

http://www.tcmtreatment.com/herbs/00-xingren.htm

Posted 2/24/2011 7:21 PM (GMT 0)
Mackster, Ha! Ha! I just searched and here is what it really is.

Bitter Apricot Kernel: http://www.tcmtreatment.com/herbs/00-xingren.htm
Posted 2/24/2011 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
Quincy, Looks like we were doing and thinking the same thing at the same time!
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