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Posted 7/8/2012 1:14 PM (GMT 0)
This could potentially have something to do with UC,seems that

C diff produces more toxin in biotin limited conditions. Lots of biotin is made by your normal bacteria,they speculate that when taking antibiotics,they kill off normal bacteria then the biotin level drops then any c diff present makes more toxin and then you get c diff colitis.

The also speculate that is why FT works to cure c diff, and this

was written in 1996.  They also speculate that other pathogens may react this way.  We also know NOW that FT will put many people

with UC into remission.  Is there a connection,I wonder.

Just started to go down this research path.

Old Mike

http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/44/2/111.full.pdf

http://www.jbc.org/content/188/1/431.full.pdf

Follow up to the first study.

http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/47/9/767.full.pdf

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/8/2012 9:45:00 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/8/2012 8:03 PM (GMT 0)
I have read several of your posts and I admire your detective work. I am a scientist myself but I can't keep up with everything while maintaining the research I'm actually getting paid to do. Are you retired? (Don't take offense, you did put "Old" in your name!)
Posted 7/8/2012 8:08 PM (GMT 0)
Fred, what research do you do? Are you a primary investigator or a lab assistant?

Old Mike, good find...

If you can quote direct connections into the forum here rather than posting solely posting 14 page pdfs that would be nicer... Seems like it could be true this connection, but I don't want to read through 14 pages of bacteria metabolism to get to what you're connecting.
Posted 7/8/2012 8:13 PM (GMT 0)
Retired,that is why I have enough time to look for interesting
research on UC. But do work 4 days a month, seems they early retired
toooo many of us old F**ts.
Old Mike
Posted 7/8/2012 8:19 PM (GMT 0)
"In the present study compounds inhibitory to enhanced
toxin production by a C. difficile strain were examined. Increases in biotin concentration
from 0.05 nM to 50 nM accelerated growth and inhibited enhanced toxin production."

Isn't accelerating growth of these bacteria detrimental to the disease? So wouldn't you want to decrease biotin?
Posted 7/9/2012 12:01 AM (GMT 0)
Nah: I gave somewhat of a summary,most things have an abstract,but I do read most every word of all 14 pages or 100 pages,whatever. I know many peoples eyes must glaze over they just want to be cured. What I am looking for is perhaps some small
minutiae that perhaps the doc's gloss over, and it might be a key,who knows.
Anyhow the point I get out of the first study is that if biotin is restriced then the bacteria produce excess toxins,which is what causes the problem with c diff. If antibiotics kill off some of our normal bacteria that produce biotin,then other pathogenic bacteria that are normal to our gut may also produce excess toxins. Many people get c diff from antibiotic use, also many think that they get UC after antibiotic use. If biotin is not produce by our normal gut bacteria in the proper amount then that may be mitagate UC induction due to excess toxins produced by other gut bacteria. This is an oddball piece or research that I just happened to run across,while looking
for something else.

I don't pretend to undersatand half the biochemistry,if I get stuck I can always ask my daughter,who is a biochemist.


Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/8/2012 7:27:18 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/9/2012 7:00 AM (GMT 0)
I have not heard of this Biotin / UC connection. The only reason I have been supplementing the past few months with Biotin is to prevent hair loss when coming off the prednisone (like what happened back in December - lost more than half the hair on my head during that round), and to encourage the hair I lost to grow back more quickly. I HAVE had very good luck with my symptoms since I started the Biotin but have attributed it to the immunosuppressants (Imuran and then Remicade) I went on around the same time. :-T Would be interested to hear about further research on the topic...
Posted 7/9/2012 5:19 PM (GMT 0)
From the follow up paper it looks like this might be a dead end.
Old Mike
Posted 11/20/2015 4:01 PM (GMT 0)
Old thread but somewhat different direction.

Now this is interesting. Perhaps a way to down regulate TNF-A at the transcriptional level.

Just suppose you took too many antibiotics and your biotin producing gut bugs are killed off, or the

immune system has killed them off.  If so tnf levels would increase.

Knocking down TNF if say MAP is causal for UC or crohn's might not be good,don't know.

People heal on biologics which reduced tnf but the biologics and even Imuran also suppress MAP.

Then again what is going on with fecal transplants, are the biotin producing gut bugs being restored.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18174365

more and more complex

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sji.12108/full

http://www.oral-immunology.dent.tohoku.ac.jp/research5_en.html

 

Posted 6/26/2021 8:11 PM (GMT 0)
This is an old threat, but I’m currently investigating Biotin also, having just found out that it can help the body dump oxalates. So, there may be a few things more going on with Biotin than meets the eye.

Here’s a summary of some reasearch investigating Biotin and Colitis, more recent than when this thread started:

https://www.mdedge.com/gihepnews/article/220621/ibd-intestinal-disorders/biotin-may-benefit-patients-ibd
Posted 8/25/2021 10:38 PM (GMT 0)
it's very interesting, but on the other hand, I often read posts on the Polish uc forum which say that people tend to get horrible flares after vitamin B supplementation. My own experiences with vit B were not the best either
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