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Still in Remission from Spinach/Sunflower Seeds 3 Years Later

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 11/14/2012 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
As I wrote a few pages back,oxalic acid might be the mechansism that makes this work, it is an
iron chelator,which could deprive the iron eating bacteria of iron. Of course you really have to watch
for kidney calcium oxalate stones.
Old Mike
Posted 11/15/2012 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
Itsalive thanks, This is more great info. I like that he talks about how cooking it basically breaks down the oxalic acid so it is not a concern but can see if you ate a huge amount of raw spinach. I agree with you that we should eat everything in moderation. I plan on reducing my intake in a couple weeks but will continue providing the proper nutients via these incredible greens on a daily basis. I have been cooking mine and drinking the juice from the water I cook it in.

Old Mike -  Most cook it and eat it that have had succees so wouldnt it effect or discredit the oxalic acid effect your speaking of as Itsalive pointed out? or? I also noticed that Sunflower seeds are second on the list for containing chlorogenic acid. Can this also perhaps lend to why this may work for us? I also came across this interesting find about Vitamin K...

"Vitamin K is one vitamin that is made within the human body--by bacteria that live in the intestinal tract. Small amounts are found as well in the green leaves of spinach, kale, cabbage, and cauliflower and also in pork liver."

Note that small amounts are found in spinach so wouldn't that perhaps lend to maybe why the imbalance of flora in ucer's and the like to maybe perhaps be Vitamin K deficient and then lead us to see why the spinach part of the sunflower seed butter diet works? 

More importantly..

DeficiencyMain article: Vitamin K deficiency

Average diets are usually not lacking in vitamin K, and primary deficiency is rare in healthy adults. Newborn infants are at an increased risk of deficiency. Other populations with an increased prevalence of vitamin K deficiency include those who suffer from liver damage or disease (e.g. alcoholics), cystic fibrosis, or inflammatory bowel diseases, or have recently had abdominal surgeries. Secondary vitamin K deficiency can occur in bulimics, those on stringent diets, and those taking anticoagulants. Other drugs associated with vitamin K deficiency include salicylates, barbiturates, and cefamandole, although the mechanisms are still unknown. Vitamin K1 deficiency can result in coagulopathy, a bleeding disorder.[60] Symptoms of K1 deficiency include anemia, bruising, and bleeding of the gums or nose in both sexes, and heavy menstrual bleeding in women.

They mention IBD in deficiencies of Vitamin K...


Sooner or later we will find the key to this, I just know it.

Steve

Post Edited (twiggs) : 11/15/2012 10:02:10 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/15/2012 6:25 PM (GMT 0)
This article says that only about 10-15% oxalic acid in foods is reduced by cooking.

As far as vitamin K I have taken lots of K1 to try and control bleeding,seems to work a little,

Cant see that it helped with the UC,started this off and on 20 plus years ago.

It is interesting that with the change from grass fed to corn fed cows our K2 levels in foods

is down.

May have to look into K2. You would only get k1 from veggies.

Old Mike

http://www.indepthinfo.com/nutrition/oxalic-acid.shtml

K2

http://chriskresser.com/vitamin-k2-the-missing-nutrient

Here is a thread from another forum on K2.

http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=35801

K2 supplment info.

http://products.mercola.com/vitamin-k/

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/15/2012 11:34:40 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/24/2012 1:09 AM (GMT 0)
How's everybody doing with the diet? Hope it allowed you to have a nice Thanksgiving. :-)
Posted 11/26/2012 2:42 PM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone,

UPDATE DAY 38

I hope everyone had a great holiday. I recently returned from a long road trip to Florida to spend the holiday with my family. I had a great trip and no problems at all. I brought my canned spinach and sunflower seed butter with me which worked out well. I have been having one to two well formed solid movents a day for a while now with no blood in sight and feel really good. I am currently taking a canasa at night every 3 or 4 nights and plan on continuing this for a couple more months and then hope to try to go off it completely. I didn't go to my 6 month follow up GI appointment which was scheduled a week before my vacation but will schedule it soon.

Hope everyone is well.

Steve

Posted 11/26/2012 6:23 PM (GMT 0)
That's great twiggs. I am still doing the spinach and sunflower thing everyday. I know my BMs and symptoms have seemed to improve in the last week (been on this diet for about 3 weeks now) but I am not sure why. My symptoms still persist (eg. mild gurgling, odd days with a little urgency) but they SEEM to be improving. I am still on a low FODMAP diet (have been for around 3.5 weeks now) so I am not sure what is doing what.
Posted 11/26/2012 6:25 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Kiss520,

I am doing very well on just maintenence with this diet. about 1 can spinach weekly  and a tablespoon or 2 sunflower seeds or sunflower seed butter daily. No meds.

Thank you for asking!  Hope everyone is enjoying the football season-no matter what.

Take care.

 

Posted 11/27/2012 12:31 AM (GMT 0)
Glad to hear you're all doing well.

MaxMillian - You sound like you're right on pace with how/when I started healing. The first two weeks really stunk, but then by the third week I could see some improvement. It will still take a while to heal completely, so don't worry about the gurgling and urgency and try to have patience with the diet. You'll get there. :-)
Posted 11/27/2012 3:45 PM (GMT 0)
Can you tell me how to find the old posts by the guy who discovered this diet?
Thanks.
Posted 11/27/2012 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
His screen name is cfromutah. You could just do a search for his name. There will probably be several results, because there were five or six extensions of the original thread.
Posted 11/27/2012 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks!
Posted Today 8:46 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Kiss

Hope you are doing well. I wanted to ask how long were you on the diet before you symptoms completely stopped. I have been on the diet for about 40 days and I do see improvement but there are days when there is a relapse. I know it will take time but I just wanted to put a timeframe in my mind.

Thanks
Posted 11/30/2012 1:00 AM (GMT 0)
I wasn't flaring when I started, at least no blood or mucous, but stools still quite loose after about 6 wks. Wondering if I'm eating too much sunbutter and spinach...??? Should I try cutting back some?
Posted 11/30/2012 2:01 AM (GMT 0)
Onecure & kerplunk - Are either of you drinking alcohol or eating known trigger foods or overeating? These are things that will set me back no matter how well I'm feeling. And if you're not doing these things, are you doing anything else that typically would give you more trouble than usual? Exceptional amounts of stress or anxiety?

It was about three months before I could be completely off medications. I started tapering off a couple weeks before that, but it does take a while if you were really having problems before the diet.
Posted 11/30/2012 2:24 AM (GMT 0)
No, none of the above. Other than sunbutter and spinach, my diet hasn't really changed.
Posted 11/30/2012 2:39 AM (GMT 0)
How much spinach and Sunbutter are you eating?
Posted 11/30/2012 2:45 AM (GMT 0)
Two tbsp of sunbutter. Harder to measure the spinach intake, usually either a large salad or approx 5 oz cooked. Both daily.
Posted 11/30/2012 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
When I was in the healing process, I ate 3-4 tablespoons of Sunbutter and 1-2 cups of cooked spinach per day. A cup of cooked spinach is 8 oz, so you might want to increase your intake. If your only intake of spinach for a day is large fresh salad, that may not be enough. If you were to cook down the amount of spinach you use for a large salad, you'd be amazed to see how little it is. I would increase your intake to the amounts I used for a couple weeks or more, if you can, and see what happens. Keep in mind you will not have to eat this much when you go in remission/maintenance.
Posted 11/30/2012 3:12 AM (GMT 0)
Whew, never thought I wasn't eating enough, but I'll try increasing.
Thanks!
Posted 11/30/2012 5:37 PM (GMT 0)
Kiss520 - I guess its a mix of a work stress and wine. I can cut down on wine so let see how it goes in the next few weeks.

Thanks for your response
Posted 12/3/2012 4:04 AM (GMT 0)
Kiss520-I've increased my spinach intake and saw blood this morning, the first since august. Frozen spinach seems to come in 10 or 11 oz pkgs. So do you eat a whole pkg at a time, or even more than that? I had been eating half. As for the sunbutter, I think I'm eating more than I said previously as I eat heaping tablespoons, so prob more like 3-4 tbsp. Just wondering if I'm really not eating the right amounts or if this just isn't going to work for me. I'm feeling so discouraged right now.
Posted 12/3/2012 4:27 AM (GMT 0)
My feeling is that like everything else with this disease it's just so individual!!! ANy given treatment (whether natural or conventional) works for some people but not for others.
SO my point is: don't be discouraged!!! Try something else...I know how you feel. I was there a couple of months ago. I had been flaring for over 8 months, and before that my firsst flare was right after i had my son, you can imagine how shattering that was. So yes i was discouraged and feeling helpless. And i tried sooo many treatments that worked wonders for others but did nothing for me. And each time i sunk deeper and deeper into depression.
Just try something else, hope you feel better soon.
Posted 12/3/2012 2:50 PM (GMT 0)
kerplunk,

Like many others, things got worse before they got better for me. My adverse reaction time was only about 3 days. A lot of people took longer with their recovery time. I had the same symptoms you describe.
My only meds were Lialda 3 tabs daily. I was not taking them before I started this spinach/sunflower seed treatment and am off them still with normal bms.

I hope you give it a little longer and get to the healing side soon.
Posted 12/3/2012 3:01 PM (GMT 0)
Can you clarify on the amounts in my last post? Is a whole pkg of frozen spinach right, or does it need to be more? A frozen pkg is 10 or 11 oz, but appears to be about 2 cups when cooked.

I don't mind it when in quesadillas and other things but seems I have to eat it alone to get that much. Shouldn't the last 6 wks count? I feel like I'm starting over. Would like to eat something else for lunch!

I am currently on Lialda, 4/d. I had started alternating 3 and 4 daily hoping to wean myself back to 3 which was my usual dose before Aug flare.
Posted 12/3/2012 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
I had my 6 month visit with my GP this am. I explained to him how was doing and that I had not taken the asacol since early summer. I told him I had a event free summer and suspected it was my diet change that helped me have a med free summer. I also told him I was taking canasa as a maintenance med as of now. He said it didnt make any sense any of it but didn't want to get into that as long as I was feeling better was his main concern. He did say that the diet was the extra fiber which perhaps was the difference but didn't say that was why I felt better. He also said that because of where my crohns/colitis is located that the canasa wouldn't traditionally make it that far up maybe somehow it is enough to make a difference. He said that he is not going to push asacol on me if I dont need it therefore to do what I have been doing. If I were to flare then he would want to put me on colazal and then schedule another colonoscopy but said if your doing fine then there is no need for a colonoscopy.

I guess its spinach and sunflower seed butter and an occasional canasa for now for me..It seems to be working great so why change.


My wife made some chili friday and it didnt agree with me. It seems it made my aide cramp a little and kinda got me worried but I was fine the next day. Then like a dummy I had some hot wings on saturday and a glass of red wine which also made me feel funny. I am better today it seems after my movement this am. I will definatly stay away from the spicy stuff and wine until otherwise. I seem to be fine with a few beers time to time.

I think I learned my lesson lol

Steve

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