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Does diet matter?

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Posted 10/22/2013 10:58 PM (GMT 0)
I know this has been discussed a million times but Its hard to wrap my mind around. When I asked my GI if diet mattered he basically said no. When I asked one of the nurses I was given the same line and also was told that probiotics probably make no difference. I have always been a healthy eater with a mix of carbs( really lots of carbs being very active) low fat meats, veggies, little dairy and almost no processed foods. Im hopefully at the tail end of my longest lasting flare(First UC Symtoms started for me the first time last june). I have been in a flare since September. I have obviously browsed and researched about diet a bunch and with the aid of a nutritionist(very nice and has worked with many UC patients but seemed kinda crazy) am on a grain free diet(almost paleo but some cheese, yogurt and starches like potatoes). I guess there really has not been a medical study about food and uc so doctors feel compelled to say that it does not matter. Part of me like the no grain idea and I know its the new fad diet but it does cause issues with going out to dinner or even drinking a beer with friends. Its just seems crazy that so many feel diet is very important(again im not talking about eating crappy food) and doctors basically dismiss it.
Its all has been driving me batty
Also has anyone done the immunolabs blood print for food allergies?

Thanks
Deeppowder
Posted 10/23/2013 12:00 AM (GMT 0)
The blood tests for food allergies are a bunch of nonsense in my opinion. Mostly worthless. Almost all UC patients tweak their diets due to UC. As far as being on a particular diet almost everyone has tried some sort of formal diet, all with extremely varying results from remission to total failure. I personally don't believe there is any one diet that is good for the average UC'r (with the possible exception of lactose free) but you can find patients out there who have claimed success with every single diet out there known to man. This disease is very individual. I think the number one reason GI's don't want to jump onto the diet bandwagon is because they would have no idea what to tell their patients because there is no one diet that works on the masses. It would be a waste of time for them to tell you SCD, Paleo, Gluten Free, etc. when whatever they told you might not make one eyota of difference in you.

Probiotics are basically the same thing. Almost all UC'rs seem to benefit from a probiotic but there are hundreds of different ones and what works in one doesn't work in another so what could the GI actually tell you? At least they have statistics for their meds that they can quote if they wanted to. They can't tell you that an SCD diet works in 33% of patients (I made that number up) because there are no statistics anywhere that quote success rates in diets for UC.
Posted 10/23/2013 12:15 AM (GMT 0)
This is just my take on it, and feel free to disagree. There are many ways to tackle a disease, drugs included.

I was told that diet had nothing to do with my disease for 10 years until I visited one of the top integrative gastroenterologists in the country. I suffered heavily when simple interventions like resistant starches, healthy saturated fats, and sugar avoidance would have changed my fate. It made me rethink my pro-science, anti-alternative perspective on medicine. I was actually a heavy drug pusher on this board, but after seeing the research and poor efficacy rates of many of the pharmaceutical drugs, it would be unconscionable for me to make the same mistake.

It turns out that everything that you put into your mouth -- from the day you are born onwards -- modifies your gut bacteria. We know now that the microorganisms in our gut make or break our immune system. Sugar for example feeds the "bad" bacteria and causes an imbalance over time, which lead to gastrointestinal issues. Nutritional deficiencies increase the risk of disease. You do not want to have something like B12 deficiency.

There are ingredients in foods that have been linked to IBD and a whole host of conditions. From GMO foods to popular additives like baking soda (aluminum), there are countless studies that show these foods are inflammatory. For example, researchers petitioned the FDA to ban carrageenan because of it's inflammatory properties, but it's still in the market for some reason.

If your GI is telling you it has nothing to do with food, I encourage you to consider a new one.
Posted 10/23/2013 12:47 AM (GMT 0)
Doctors can be idiots. You too, have to take some of the 'advice' they give you as a grain of salt.

Guarantee you that although diet is not a cure or an easy fix, it can definitely improve your digestion.

This is one of the best formal blog/research I've seen on food for bowel disease!
perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/07/bowel-disease-part-ii-healing-the-gut-by-eliminating-food-toxins/

Basically, no dairy, no grains (except rice, tapioca/potato starches), no legumes, no fructose, etc..
Posted 10/23/2013 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks,
So confused. So I went to this nutritionist who had me lie on a table and tested various foods on my stomach while my arm was raised. I forget the name of this test. I did not realize that she was going to test like this when I made my appointment. Thats how she came up with no grains(including rice which I was eating because of the Perfect Health Diet book.) She said that cheese was fine as was yogurt but would stay away from strait milk. She was also into soup broth like the perfect health diet. Part of me wonders if I have been in this flare for 6 weeks(almost out of it because of changing to rowasa from canasa, most of my other flares have been over in less then 3 weeks) because I started messing with my diet so much. Then again I got into this flare with my old diet of Pasta, low fat meats, veggies ect. Part of me says I mind as well stick with the diet for a few months to see but its tough. Not being able to drink a beer with my bro when I go visit him next month sucks(but Id rather drink water then have ibd issues).
Sorry to rant
Posted 10/23/2013 1:32 AM (GMT 0)

stereofidelic89 said...
Doctors can be idiots. You too, have to take some of the 'advice' they give you as a grain of salt.

Guarantee you that although diet is not a cure or an easy fix, it can definitely improve your digestion.

This is one of the best formal blog/research I've seen on food for bowel disease!
perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/07/bowel-disease-part-ii-healing-the-gut-by-eliminating-food-toxins/

Basically, no dairy, no grains (except rice, tapioca/potato starches), no legumes, no fructose, etc..

Paul Jaminet knows his stuff. The Perfect Health Diet blog is indeed one of the best diet blogs out there. You should read the posts by Tatertot on resistant starches if you haven't already, it's groundbreaking stuff.

Post Edited (StealthGuardian) : 10/22/2013 7:35:51 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/23/2013 3:09 AM (GMT 0)
I always wonder what else gi's are wrong about - not to mention the rest of the medical community -

I love my gi - not because he knows his crap, but because he really cares about me and listens -
Posted 10/23/2013 3:15 AM (GMT 0)
"The blood tests for food allergies are a bunch of nonsense in my opinion. Mostly worthless"

well garyloovill, i'll be forever thankful that my nd had my blood tested for food intolerances - once I finally adhered to the results 100%, I am med free -

but you go on treating your ibs any way you see fit -
Posted 10/23/2013 3:23 AM (GMT 0)
In my case, I haven't noticed diet healing my UC in any way. One thing I do notice is that the less I eat while flaring, the less I am in the bathroom. Of course, while flaring, I could be in the bathroom 20x a day even if I don't eat anything so not eating is not the solution but neither is diet in my case. I have tried grain-free and didn't notice one iota of improvement. I wish I could report different news. I would gladly live with dietary restrictions if that was all it took.
Posted 10/23/2013 3:28 AM (GMT 0)
My GI told me the same thing when I was first diagnosed but after a few months I started bleeding again and he changed his mind he told me to avoid raw vegetables and stuff. I don't think there's really a set diet that works for everyone and it has a bigger impact on some people than others. You have to find the thing that works best for you.
Posted 10/23/2013 5:27 AM (GMT 0)
I'm all about eating a very healthy diet and think it can definitely have an impact on IBD. The other thing to look at is, I think no matter what we eat/don't eat our intestines are damaged due to the nature of IBD so regardless our immune system is attacking our intestines and even if we were designed to eat cardboard or those little packing foams or what have you, it will still cause issue...fixing the immune system would likely fix the damaged intestines.
Posted 10/23/2013 5:48 AM (GMT 0)
If it help's any at all - Because I have pondered this very question thousands of times, as have most I assume. I spoke to my GI again about this the last time I saw him:

His answer was quite simple and refreshing. I think I mentioned it before. Again, he's unique because he studies the genetics links, E-cloi and Post Infectious IBS, and Colon Cancer along with being a regular old GI at the Hospital day to day. He's open to anything I want to try as long as I inform him first so he can give me an opinion (i.e make sure I'm not doing something dumb or that will hurt, interfere with my meds) - So he always says two things:

He's open to alternative treatment and diet because he really has no idea what is the cause of these diseases.. which floored me to hear a GI say that direct.. and in regards to diet - he encourages it, his answer is the same as most others on here. He says everyone is different, so you have to keep trying things be it meds or diet till you find something that clicks and then stick to it as long as it's working. In between he tries to just alleviate the symptoms with meds as best he can. That's it. Everyone is different. Funny how many times that has been said on this board. But in this case it's coming from a GI as well.

In contrast, my previous GI's have said the very same as yours. Diet has Zero to do with it. I like the new guy the best. Oddly, his assistant is full on the opposite. She says diet has nothing to do with it.

Bottom line is there really is no answer I think. Just have to keep trying and see what works.

Probably doesn't help any - but wanted to share that with you. There's days I awake and say screw it, diet has nothing to do with it, so I eat something bad, and wham.. here comes to mucus and D... I believe diet influence the symptoms in a big way but will not cure the disease - but could make it more umm tolerable. SCD and Gluten free works great for me, but I need meds as well to stay in semi-remission.

PS - he says the same thing about meds.. everyone is different. Try till something clicks and stay with it till you have to try something else.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 10/22/2013 11:53:53 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/23/2013 8:15 AM (GMT 0)
The only thing I can say is that if your UC is under control by any means then don't go adding in stuff or changing diets. I have seen many here decide to try this or that and wind up making their UC worse. I guess if you are in a flare though you got nothing to lose by trying. It really does seem to be hit or miss though. No one thing seems to work for everything. Some try a diet and it helps and then someone else tries the same diet and it makes them worse. This S#it is complicated.
Posted 10/23/2013 9:48 AM (GMT 0)
When I'm good I'm very very good and when I'm bad I can't eat jack. Food has never started a flare, or ended one, just makes them worse, like rubbing salt on a graze. All my flares have been when I'm stressed out.

When I was diagnosed and in hospital my nurse told me the BEST thing i could eat would be a McDonalds burger, she said I should eat white bread, meat that has been processed to death, everything soft and it would help me gain weight. White rice, white pasta, no skin on fruit and veg and that was it.  needless to say I didn't eat burgers before I was ill and wasn't about to start.

Think the only thing thats ever really helped me is chewing my food to death before swallowing.

Posted 10/23/2013 11:48 AM (GMT 0)
Does diet matter? nope. Atleast not for me it doesn't. Tried diet mods with no improvements in symptoms. So you'll have to pry my bread, pasta, milk, beer, pizza out of my cold dead hands lol.
Posted 10/23/2013 12:06 PM (GMT 0)
So my experience would be no, it doesn't stop/start a flare. However clearly there are foods for me that irritate things which is true for most people. So yes, diet helps with some of the symptoms but by no means is a cure/causation.
Posted 10/23/2013 12:31 PM (GMT 0)
I suspect one reason many docs will say that diet does nothing for UC is that if they use enteral feeding,it does not do much for UC,while it can put crohns into remission.

But a radical shift in diet say from meat eater to a vegan,or vice versa, will shift the microbiome, proven fact.
For some this might be enough,but not many.
Many might shift diet but fail to go all organic, and no factory food,this might be some sort of key.
Then again there are a zillion different diets around the world and the incidence of UC is increasing
in the countries that formally had low incidence.
OM
Posted 10/23/2013 1:14 PM (GMT 0)
 "So I went to this nutritionist who had me lie on a table and tested various foods on my stomach while my arm was raised".

Seriously? Are you sure this nutritionist had you raise the correct arm? It might make a difference if you are right or left handed. Did they have a voodoo doll, blow powder on your stomach, and dance around singing chants? OK. OK. I'm sorry. Just couldn't resist. Surely this isn't the latest research. In case you haven't guessed already I'm highly skeptical that using this method to figure out the correct diet for you is going to work. But, who knows, luck could be on your side. While I know that real doctors and medicine often fail people like us, this "nutritionist" seems to be preying on those with a chronic disease.

Posted 10/23/2013 1:28 PM (GMT 0)
Lol garylouisville you're killing me here. I share your skepticism with this nutritionist. I feel we, ourselves are the best judge of what foods, if any, bother our uc: keep a food journal, if you suspect a food bothers you then try it multiple times and make sure the same exact reaction happens each time (and it wasn't just a fluke).

I've often joked that I should start a holistic computer repair company. I'd go total witch-doctor to fix your computer and software problems: tiki skirt, light some incense, chant some things, toss some animal bones out of a felt bag and interpret the results, and charge a bundle. No better way to suck the evil spirit out of your computer that's ailing it, right?
Posted 10/23/2013 2:54 PM (GMT 0)
Diet matters on a variety of things, but I don't believe it causes UC or flares or heals them.

Unless one has allergies or sensitivities or intolerances, that's a different and separate issue.

It's so easy to get overly focused on food, that a person eventually can become obsessed and totally fearful to eat.

I wouldn't eat half the stuff others on here eat....I know what I can eat that doesn't cause me excess gas or discomfort, but I do consume some foods that I do end up being very uncomfortable or nauseated. Usually it's an excess of something.

Make your own decisions and use a LOT of common sense.

q
Posted 10/23/2013 6:47 PM (GMT 0)
Ipoop: I could have used you for some of my past computers that went belly up. That is a very good analogy because on some of them I spent a lot of money and got few results (same for doctors). If I had been just a little more desperate I could have looked you up in the yellow pages and given it a try. Not sure I want to see you in a tiki skirt though (especially with UC!). I guess I am very naive when it comes to Chiropractors or Nutritionists, etc. I always thought that Chiros studied and were experts on bone related things and Nutritionists were educated in, well nutrition. Over the last couple of years I have been finding out that Chiros supposedly treat and cure everything up to and including cancer and now I read that nutritionists can figure out your proper diet by putting food on your belly (instead of in it), as long as your arm is raised up. I'm not a big fan of doctors but I really don't have much respect for people that take the easy way out to get a degree and then the next thing you know they have a shingle up in their office claiming they can cure everything from A to Z.
Posted 10/23/2013 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
Haha you aint kidding: me in a tiki skirt most certainly wouldn't be pretty. I think even the wifey would be laughing her butt off with me in that sort of attire. Possible halloween costume idea though, complete with bone in nose?

My mother has been to multiple nutritionists over the years. The second one she saw had convinced her she couldn't eat practically anything: as she was allergic to everything it seemed according to his tests. Maybe it was just a bad dr, who knows. I think she's going to see another one soon and hopefully they'll give her more realistic results this time, we'll see lol.
Posted 10/23/2013 11:38 PM (GMT 0)
Obviously I am very skeptical of her ways of trying to figure out what if anything im allergic too. I was really just looking for advice on a paleo style diet, partially because I know many have had success with it and many of the top ultra runners in the world have turned to a grain free diet and are winning big races. My physical therapist that i used for my IT band swears by grain free and talks about how he used to have troubles getting out of bed because he was so stiff but now has no issues. SO for him at least it has helped his joint inflammation. Also the older I get(only 37) the more I am open to different ideas. I know there is no silver bullet but if modified diet works for many then why not try it. Maybe at least I will be able to run a faster 50k.
Posted 10/24/2013 10:39 AM (GMT 0)
I have seen great improvements from a STRICT following of the SCD Diet. However, I'm pretty confident that not chewing food enough can make a big difference in how well it poses through my gut.

Don't rush yourself, and don't overeat.
Posted 10/24/2013 12:33 PM (GMT 0)
Deeppowder, sure try paleo or a while, if you haven't already. As anything that can possibly help us should be tried, especially if it has no adverse effects. There's lots of paleo dieters on this forum and I'm sure they'll be more than happy to answer any questions you have about it. Maybe start a new thread/topic about your paleo-specific questions? Try it for a while and see if it helps you, it does help some but not all.
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