Researchers Have Breakthrough On How Persistent Bacteria Avoid Antibiotics

Researchers Have Breakthrough On How Persistent Bacteria Avoid Antibiotics: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131229112055.htm

Probably not of interest to anyone other than those that have looked into biofilms and/or read the 10,000 biopsy paper OM dug up. Anyway in the 10,000 biopsy paper: www.charite.de/arbmkl/themen/ubersicht/polensascha.pdf or the alternate formal published version of the this paper: jcm.asm.org/content/43/7/3380.full.pdf

it shows imaging of patients who had just received a recent dose of either antibiotics or mesalamine (5-asa). In both of these patient groups the bacteria cannot be detected by their DNA probe - yet when they image them the bacteria can be seen very clearly and still there, just in a "metabolically silent" state as described by the paper. It then goes on to question if 5-asa's have antibiotic properties... This quick article and study shows what's probably going on...

Also makes me think of SCD and few other things like WOO etc... Like not being able to clear or cure things, just put them into a dormant state perhaps and alleviate some of the symptoms due to a change in bacterial nutrient source.

That is if bacteria have anything to do with this whole IBD thing or not... haha..

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 1/1/2014 7:01:04 PM (GMT-7)

Hey Mark, thanks for the post! Always good to see new information and research to gain understanding. Hope your New Year's Day has gone well!

This would explain why many of us with UC can undergo antibiotics with great...but temporary relief. I for one did a treatment for h pylori with a prevpak for 14 days. The 14 days weren't any better while taking the meds but for 14 days after I was perfect...the. Back to the normal bad.

This at least explains a bit more of the puzzle! Great article thank you for sharing.

Makes me further like paleo and woo. Treat them like holistic meds instead of "cures", it doesn't matter to me as long as the poop improves

Thank you for these postings. Looks like really important work. I wonder if the mucosal barrier can be reinstated in those for whom it has broken down (I am sure I number among them), or if the biofilms need to be completely removed to avoid mucous locking them in?

@conquer - That's sort of the point made in both basically (and question made in the 10,000 biopsy paper)... is that they don't show up but yet they can still be imaged. They're no longer reactive and therefore are not detected by the probes.

The 10,000 biopsy paper didn't account for or publish symptoms still present in these biopsy's, but if you assume some of the people on mesalamines or anitibiotics tested still showed some or minor symptoms (which is most likely the case and would suggest some active bacteria) then why are they not detected by the probes? So this leads to more confusion and questions really that no one has the answer to at the moment.

A lot of guesses and ideas.. but no formal answer.

I like this site, just found it.

www.ra-infection-connection.com/BiofilmsTutorial.htm

And one more way perhaps...

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130228124138.htm

Fascinating...

Thanks London - that's quite interesting. I know during the Amino Acid therapy my mucus levels went through the roof towards the end but I had mostly solid stool which was a first. Oddly it changed the way my body digested food for the better. I had to stop eventually, but I can now tolerate a lot of things that I could not before.