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klebsiella pneumoniae moderate growth

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 6/5/2014 4:51 PM (GMT 0)
My pediatrician had ordered some stool tests through Quest Diagnostics and the result has come with

klebsiella pneumoniae moderate growth.


Is this the cause for her Colitis and her UTI problems? Will killing this bacteria cure her Ulcerative Colitis once for all?

Post Edited (kamakya) : 6/5/2014 2:17:15 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/5/2014 9:06 PM (GMT 0)
I had some stool tests that came back with a severe overgrowth of klebsiella. My urine was very pungent for many years despite a large daily intakes of water. I'd have to pee 3 or 4 times a night. I initially thought I had prostate cancer.

Apparently it's ridiculously hard to get rid of Klebsiella. Like the other superbug C.Diff. I tried everything under the sun to shift it, except antibiotics.

What I did find, from personal experience, was that my symptoms (constipation due to no biffidobacterium, alternating with diarrhea) subsided with a major diet overhaul. I went raw fruit and vegetables (mostly fruit though). It stopped the tummy stuff but I do flare-up if I deviate from the diet.

Klebsiella is very stubborn and quite resistant to most antibiotics. But the last thing my body needs is more antibiotics since I think the two dozen courses of the last decade or so were the cause of my gut complaints in the first place.

So I chose to go the DIY Fecal Transplant Pill route instead. I've had a good response to this but it's still early days. I only did it 6 days ago!

Post Edited (CoastalChris) : 6/5/2014 3:09:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/5/2014 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
I looked into this when it came back on a test for me. I don't think it was a UC cause but I think it was part of IBS type symptoms I had at the time. I think it has been strongly implicated in ankylosing spondilitis? I seem to remember reading that it loves starch so I tried to reduce starch.
Posted 6/5/2014 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
@coastalchris: Which herbal supplemental did you try for klebsiella ? I was researching and found in google a himalaya herbal product called Renalka for klebsiella. I want to try natural method before going antibiotic route.

http://www.himalayahealthcare.com/pdf_files/renalka003.pdf
Posted 6/5/2014 10:56 PM (GMT 0)
The natural antimicrobial for Klebsiella is Citrus Seed Extract (sometimes called Grapefruit Seed Extract).

In vivo/in vitro studies suggests the stronger the better (for the life of me I can't find the paper online).

From memory the paper said that patients were reluctant to have it too strong ... because it tasted like bloody crap. Of course, they didn't say it with quite the nuanced Australian vernacular I have chosen!

So... zero klebsiella die-off at any less than 2% solution ie, 2 drops per 100ml. And an apparent 30% die-off at higher doses. I doubled mine at 4 drops per 100ml.

I used to drink 400ml each time. But 200ml would be far less invasive for the average person's taste.

I used to take my initial dose immediately upon waking. I also let it sit for 5 minutes so that it 'cures' the water. Then stir it again since the extract seems to sink to the bottom of the cup.

I have no idea if it helped. I stopped taking it after a couple of months.

I've tried several Ayurverdic powders as well. But not renalka. It seems promising according to that link you have. I'd definitely give it a go and see what happens.
Posted 6/6/2014 12:07 AM (GMT 0)
@CoastalChris My daughter is 8 yrs old. What dose of GSE will you suggest?

I also read Shatavari (Asparagus racemosus) herbal is also potent for klebsiella pneumoniae. Just bought one from vitamin shoppe. Need to try.

Very interested to know dosage of GSE?

Post Edited (kamakya) : 6/5/2014 6:10:59 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/6/2014 12:39 AM (GMT 0)
I used to give my two boys 100ml with 4 drops of GSE in it. Even with just 4 drops it tastes disgusting ... but my kids liked it.

Weird kids!

I'm not totally convinced it works though. Especially without changing to a diet that doesn't feed the bacteria.

I've yet to do any follow up CDSA tests to see if the klebsiella has died off.
Posted 6/6/2014 1:34 AM (GMT 0)
How long did you use GSE? Once killing klebsiella does it end ur colitis? My DD always had UTI with colitis.
Posted 6/6/2014 1:41 AM (GMT 0)
I used it for a couple of months but I'm not sure it killed all the klebsiella. Without follow up tests I can't really vouch for the treatment. Plus I did a whole lot of different things all at once.

The biggest help for me was removing all gluten, dairy and meat from my diet. That said, other people with IBD/UC/Crohn's seem to be able to tolerate those things better than I can.

I'm now on my first week post Fecal Transplant Pill treatment and I'm having good results, so I think my stomach issues are very much connected to previous exposure to antibiotics.
Posted 6/6/2014 2:21 AM (GMT 0)
I did not know about FT pill treatment. I thought FT is given as either enema or colonoscopy.
Posted 6/6/2014 2:29 AM (GMT 0)
K pneumonia is a normal bacterium found in the intestinal tract. As such, it isn't a cause for concern. Like E. coli, it often causes urinary tract infections. In debilitated people it can also cause pneumonia.

In the hospital we used to see lots of children, especially girls, with klebsiella urinary tract infections.
Posted 6/6/2014 3:31 AM (GMT 0)
@Judy2 : SHould I have to treat it or leave it as is? Can klebsiella pneumoniae cause her ulcerative colitis?
Posted 6/6/2014 3:45 AM (GMT 0)

Judy2 said...
K pneumonia is a normal bacterium found in the intestinal tract. As such, it isn't a cause for concern. Like E. coli, it often causes urinary tract infections. In debilitated people it can also cause pneumonia.

In the hospital we used to see lots of children, especially girls, with klebsiella urinary tract infections.


Judy: What kind of level is considered 'normal'? There is so little information about klebsiella out there, and what there is seems to be 'The coming Superbug epidemic' type article.

I could never find anyone that could conclusively tell me how much of this bacteria is normal.

Here's a snapshot of what my CDSA came back as:

gastrosolutions.org/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-06%20at%201.41.48%20PM.png

Post Edited (CoastalChris) : 6/6/2014 8:29:07 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/6/2014 4:14 AM (GMT 0)
you would be best to email a member called "pathogenkiller". Look her up. She is experienced in the area of pathogen/infection etc.
Posted 6/6/2014 4:39 AM (GMT 0)
I have emailed her too.
Posted 6/6/2014 6:37 AM (GMT 0)
This quite recent review looks at Klebsiella P and AS and IBD. Confusing stuff because it is suggesting that starch that ferments in the bowel, i.e. resistant starch, may be a bad thing for IBD, which of course contradicts the advice that resistant starch is great for the colon as the good commensual bacteria need it to feed on. It seems to suggest that simple carbohydrates would be better, which I think would be more of an SCD type of diet.

www.hindawi.com/journals/jir/2013/872632/
Posted 6/6/2014 11:50 AM (GMT 0)
We are already following SCD diet. Is klebsiella pneumoniae something very alarming that I need to run to hospital? google says this is super bug and can mortality death rate is 50%.
Posted 6/6/2014 12:09 PM (GMT 0)

kamakya said...
We are already following SCD diet. Is klebsiella pneumoniae something very alarming that I need to run to hospital? google says this is super bug and can mortality death rate is 50%.

I don't think there's any problems unless it develops into pneumonia. Like Judy said, everyone has Klebsiella, just as everyone carries E. Coli.
Posted 6/6/2014 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
She currently has no symptoms. But 15 days before her initial colitis symptoms, she had some urinary problem and the doctor gave augmentin. Exactly 15 days after that colitis symptoms started. Each time she had colitis flare, she also had urinary tract issues. I do not if KPV is related to Colitis. But the timelines in our case with UT issue and colitis are identical.

Post Edited (kamakya) : 6/6/2014 7:42:35 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/6/2014 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
This might be worth read:

thepositivepear.com/tag/klebsiella/
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