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Posted 7/18/2014 11:56 PM (GMT 0)
I really suggest you read this protocol,and if you read it in the past, please read again.

I happen to believe he has it about right.

TNF-Alpha is really causing much of the healing problem.

Might save your colon.

Old Mike

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~msbriggs/IBD-Briggs-beta6.pdf


bacteria invasion

http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/58/5/535.full

Dr. Briggs is also a member,here is an older thread.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2962573


putting all this stuff in here also

This  what is going on with butyric acid and UC.

If we have impaired oxidation of butyric acid,then if we eat too much fermentable starch or other material

that makes butyric acid in the colon,causes ulceration ,if the amount made exceeds our ability to utilize it. 

Why paleo and SCD work on some people,they have cut out the fermentables and make less butyric acid,

from all bacteria that can produce butyric acid.

I don't know why 90 plus percent of the papers refer to it as butyrate.

Butyrate is the ionized form, such as sodium butyrate, or named as an ester such as ethyl acetate.

It might be a good idea to determine why we cant oxidize butyric acid correctly,tnf perhaps.

Sure the docs are using sodium butyrate enemas,but the bugs are making butyric acid.

Bottom line perhaps,not to much RS and other fermentables until inflammation is fixed.


Old Mike

http://gut.bmj.com/content/52/1/79.full


sulfide perhaps the problem impairs oxidation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8287651


methionine,you would think we get enough from the diet,or something is wrong with our cycles

many of us have high homocysteine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methionine


perhaps not hydrogen sulfide

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11508674


gene expression

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21987487


perhaps nothing really wrong except for inflammation

which might lead you back to lowering tnf,which leads me back to a mucus breach in the first place exposing the immune system to, too many bacteria

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9823806


more on inflammation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18942762


no enzyme problem

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8984028


primary metabolic disorder not found,then what the hell is going on

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11447021


impaired

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21707682


transport problem glucose oxidation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19774643


more

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18054563


back to tnf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15905703


more

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11191284


ammonia

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12637251


uc an energy deficiency disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6106826



 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/19/2014 8:54:45 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/19/2014 12:57 AM (GMT 0)
I forgot about this thread - it's a shame the good one's get buried sometimes. You know, aside from what I mentioned on the above thread, when one presents with a "food intolerance" like in my case and many others (so a food antigen trigger), this is most likely a sign of either mucosal macrophage and/or mast cell involvement. The result is a very fast release of TNF-a, 5Ht and other inflammatory cytokines as a result of the mast cell degranulation - essentially they literally puke these out in large quantity. This draws the attention, activates other immune cells and leaves a chemical gradient to direct them where to go.

So the first offence (antigen exposure) produces a delayed reaction but subsequent exposures elicit a fast and furious reaction because they are primed. More so they respond to not only food antigen's but bacteria as well. Like how some people (myself included) can eat something and a few hours later wham... The result is more of an IBS type reaction - Instant "D", haha.

Until this aspect is under control it's not really possible to fully heal and re-boot - somewhat like Dr. Briggs suggests.

Even though we take TNF-a blockers, for some that would not be enough to get on top of the root issue from his point of view.

Thanks for digging this up and posting this again. I'd like to re-read it in detail again.
Posted 7/19/2014 2:00 AM (GMT 0)
Havent read it all yet but its coincidental my current lapse in health coincided perfectly with an abandonment of gf bread and a switch to lots of eggs for breakfast... high in sulfur.

What do you all think about the wellbutrin? I have always been leery of, and have avoided, anti-depressants.
Posted 7/19/2014 4:33 AM (GMT 0)
I've been on Wellbutrin for 20+ years and I'm convinced that's what kept me UC-free until I was 32. And it's probably kept my colitis relatively in check since then. Only two truly severe flares in 14 years.

It's also the only antidepressant that works for me.
Posted 7/19/2014 5:15 AM (GMT 0)
Is being on something like that for that long without negative consequence? Forgive my ignorance, just asking. Do you notice a big difference in mood?
Posted 7/19/2014 5:15 AM (GMT 0)
Is being on something like that for that long without negative consequence? Forgive my ignorance, just asking. Do you notice a big difference in mood?
Posted 7/20/2014 1:29 PM (GMT 0)
For those of us who can't get Wellbutrin we might want to concentrate on the mechanism of action on tnf

lowering. Perhaps we can get somewhere by looking at this info,also notice it up regulates IL-10.

Putting this info in both current threads.  Just starting to look into this,up regulation of cAMP.

How else can we do it,easily if possible,seems to be a key.

Would appreciate any help, especially from our biochemists.

Old Mike

http://arca.icict.fiocruz.br/bitstream/icict/2741/1/Brustolim_Ribeiro_Kast_etal.pdf

Abstract

In a wide range of human diseases of inflammatory nature like Crohn's disease, pathology is mediated in part by pro-inflammatory cytokines like tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF) or interferon-gamma. We show here that a commonly used generic antidepressant bupropion, in wide use worldwide to treat depression in humans for a decade now, <u>profoundly</u> lowers levels of TNF, interferon-gamma, and interleukin-1 beta in vivo, in a mouse lipopolysaccharide (LPS) induced inflammation model. Mice challenged with an otherwise lethal dose of LPS were protected by bupropion and levels of the anti-inflammatory cytokine interleukin-10 were increased. Previous data in rodents and humans indicate antidepressant effects of bupropion are mediated by its weak reuptake inhibition of norepinephrine and dopamine. Concordant with this, TNF suppression by bupropion in our mouse LPS model was largely abrogated by beta-adrenergic or dopamine D1 receptor antagonists but not by a D2 antagonist. TNF synthesis is controlled by an inverse relationship with intracellular cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) and stimulation of either beta-adrenoreceptors or D1 dopaminergic receptors result in increased cAMP but stimulation of D2 receptors lowers cAMP. We conclude that bupropion may suppress TNF synthesis by mediating increased signaling at beta-adrenoreceptors and D1 receptors, resulting in increased cAMP that inhibits TNF synthesis. Bupropion is well tolerated also in non-psychiatric populations and has less risk with long term use than current anti-inflammatory, immunosuppressive or TNF suppressive treatments such as prednisone, azathioprine, infliximab, or methotrexate. New anti-inflammatory treatments are needed. We believe a new chapter in antiinflammatory, TNF lowering treatment of disease has been opened. Bupropion's use for this in humans should be explored.


nettle to lower tnf

http://www.febsletters.org/article/S0014-5793(98)01622-6/fulltext

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 9/4/2014 7:58:35 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/20/2014 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
So whats up OM you have tried everything, I assume youve tried this as well..? Im now intrigued by the wellbutrin, but havent ever dabbled in anti d's. Id love feedback form anyone on this... I do think my mood has affected my UC throughout my life and possibly today. DOes anyone know the degree to which 3x100mg immediate release wellbutrin compare to remicade for anti tnf efficacy?
Posted 7/20/2014 11:31 PM (GMT 0)
Freddy: No have not tried, I am just getting into looking at Wellbutrin.
Reading a patent,a crohns person went into remission,but when they stopped the wellbutrin they
came out of remission.
Of course they were not doing mucosal repair.
This stuff has been known to down regulate TNF for a long time,and is dirt cheap.
I am starting to get the bad feeling,that something fishy is going on.
Where biologics are being used and not this stuff,we are talking millions and millions of bucks here.
Don't think my GP would give me it, unless I claimed I wanted to stop smoking,and the dosage for that is lower.
I believe this type protocol is the real deal.

The Wellbutrin lowers the tnf and gets you into remission.

Hopefully with the rest of the protocol,you can at some point stop the wellbutrin.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/20/2014 7:28:39 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/21/2014 12:31 AM (GMT 0)
There was the guy on here that took Wellbutrin for his UC... during the AA thing - he described that instant "click" like a switch sort thing. There was another antidepressant as well but I'm 90% sure he took Wellbutrin.

It gives some people intense "D" others constipation and it appears in some it brings relief of IBD like symptoms.
Posted 7/21/2014 12:55 AM (GMT 0)
I want to know more about what it does to your personality
Posted 7/21/2014 3:10 AM (GMT 0)
Freddy-

Wellbutrin is an antidepressant. It helps those of us with depression feel normal -appropriate energy levels, more positive moods-without changing personality.

It's slightly activating for many people. For me, I get a mild boost of energy from each dose. It doesn't make me hyper but for someone with anxiety, it may be too stimulating. Also, it's a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (different from an SSRI like Prozac) and some people may not react well to that chemical approach. My mom tried it and it made her moody and weepy.

I've had clinical depression since I was 19 years old so I need the Wellbutrin to stay mentally healthy. I don't know how it would affect someone who didn't have depression.
Posted 7/21/2014 3:45 AM (GMT 0)
Kiptyn, I've been interested lately in trying wellbutrin, I had tried Paxil and Celexa in the past.
Both caused bad side effects, like impotence and personality changes.

If I could treat my low mood and possibly help against UC, that would be great.

So question is: do you take the instant release? And what dose?

I'm sure there is some coverup on this drugs effect on IBD. Why else would they have that big study on wellbutrin in chrons patients, but then not publish the results? Every study gets published results, always, whether they were good or bad.

My conspiracy theory on it is that the results were very good, so now they are trying to change the formulation ever so slightly, to extract only the TNF-a lowering component, so they can "introduce a new drug" run it through the study phases, get FDA approval, and charge 4000$ a pop, while keeping everyone in the dark that its basically rebranded wellbutrin.
Posted 7/21/2014 4:25 AM (GMT 0)
CDN-I take the instant release at a total dosage of 450 mg/day split into 3 doses of 150 mg each. I believe this is the maximum allowed.

Due to the slight risk of seizures, you must take each dose 4-5 hours apart. I usually do a schedule of 7:00 am, 12 noon, and 5:00 pm. I've never had a seizure or any negative side effects.

No sexual side effects other than positive ones, especially for women. I myself haven't felt a difference either way.

Generic versions of Wellbutrin can be iffy (see http://www.raps.org/regulatoryDetail.aspx?id=9526 for info on documented quality issues) so, if it's possible with your insurance, try to get the name brand. If that's not possible, the generic that I and my psychiatrist have had the best experience with is manufactured by Mylan. My local Walgreens always has the Mylan version in stock.

The link above references the generic XL version but I'm convinced that there are potency issues with the instant release, too, because my first serious flare started two months after I switched to the generic. Unfortunately my insurance won't cover the name brand and I can't spend $400 a month to get it. Something to keep in mind when following the Briggs protocol. You may need to go a bit higher than 100 mg per dose to get the desired effect.
Posted 7/21/2014 10:45 AM (GMT 0)
One way well actually two ways to increase cAMP.

Resveratrol and or fasting.

Will add more info if I find it.

Old Mike

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009286741200030X


increasing cAMP might not be good

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21993975


wellbutrin dangers

http://thepeopleschemist.com/what-they-aren%E2%80%99t-telling-you-about-wellbutrin-bupropion/


other ways to increase cyclic amp

magnesium

caffeine

Forskolin


PDE4 inhibitors

http://memo.cgu.edu.tw/cgmj/3503/350301.pdf

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/25/2014 9:47:58 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/25/2014 4:28 PM (GMT 0)
Another possible way to get at this might be nitrite.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231713001006

nitrite will suppress the arginine inos path,once inos suppressed will suppress TNF

Just lost the abstract will put it one here if I can find it again.

Old Mike


this one not quite the same but close

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12678336


found it arginine suppresses the action of wellbutrin

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17509558?log$=activity


also lots going on with the nervous system and tnf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11752888?log$=activity

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/25/2014 10:40:25 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/25/2014 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
Is this l-arginine?
Posted 7/25/2014 6:00 PM (GMT 0)
Yes
OM
Posted 2/25/2015 1:56 PM (GMT 0)
Just read this protocol yesterday and I feel that it sums up my experience with sulfities, gluten, leaky gut, etc. It sound really promising and after having this DD for over 13 years now I have tried so many things and failed that I don't get excited anymore but after reading this I am hopeful. Have a doctors appt today to get on Bupropion 100mg IR 3 times a day. I do remember years and years ago I was on effexor and my tummy trouble got much better, hope for the same.
Posted 2/25/2015 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry, not sure if someone already posted about this, but going from butyric acid to butyrate is not oxidation. Butyric acid simply becomes butyrate when the pH of the environment goes above about 4.82. The pH of the colon is typically between 5.5 and 7 so under those conditions any butyric acid produced will be ionized to the butyrate form.
Posted 2/25/2015 10:54 PM (GMT 0)
Hello,

I'd like to add I did follow this protocol with generic bupropion IR at doses ranging from 75mg/day to 225mg/day

I did notice the antidepressant effects but it did not have any noticeable difference in my UC symptoms, it did not reduce pain, frequency, diarrhea or anything.

I also did the colostrum enema, and all the things he suggested. I spent ~$5k trying to make the process easier to repeat for others, but in the end it didn't work and thus I was not going to sell something that did not work on myself. But there are plenty of people who will.
Posted 2/26/2015 3:23 AM (GMT 0)
"Sorry, not sure if someone already posted about this, but going from butyric acid to butyrate is not oxidation. Butyric acid simply becomes butyrate when the pH of the environment goes above about 4.82. The pH of the colon is typically between 5.5 and 7 so under those conditions any butyric acid produced will be ionized to the butyrate form."

Great thanks brucen36 for posting the answer to the riddle.

Previous attempts at inhibiting TNF-alpha flares me.

Meanwhile Psyllium Seed Powder which converts into Butyrate saves me daily always and have it at home and at work.

Meanwhile Arginine-Ethyl-Ester relaxes my cardio system but seems to have no negative effect on UC.
Posted 2/26/2015 3:36 AM (GMT 0)
Aguywithuc, can you share your dosing of psyllium seed powder?
Posted 2/26/2015 4:16 AM (GMT 0)

Old Mike said...
I really suggest you read this protocol,and if you read it in the past, please read again.
I happen to believe he has it about right.

TNF-Alpha is really causing much of the healing problem.

Might save your colon.

Old Mike

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~msbriggs/IBD-Briggs-beta6.pdf

Briggs said...

Additionally, as IBD is clearly a lifestyle disease, to the extent that certain aspects of our western
lifestyle contribute to its development (as I describe in detail below), I think that a successful approach
must involve adjusting those aspects of our lifestyle that can contribute to the recurrence of the disease.
To date, no studies have been done that incorporate a multitude of treatment supplements (aimed at
healing and maintaining the epithelial barrier) as well as lifestyle adjustments – so there is no data on
how this overall protocol will work. But, I have done my homework, and I feel it is very well-grounded in
science, with each piece of the protocol backed by controlled studies.

So glad you posted this I forgot all about it but whole heartily agreed the first time I read it.

Briggs said...

The production of SCFAs, primarily butyrate, acetate, and propionate, from undigestible
carbohydrates (fiber and resistant starches) is a vitally important task. They, especially butyrate, serve as
the primary energy source for epithelial cells, inhibit the release of inflammatory cytokines such as TNF-
α, and play key roles in the expression of the tight-junction proteins28 where the epithelial barrier can
break down. As the primary energy source of cells, a reduction in butyrate oxidation would result in an
energy deficiency in epithelial cells, in the form of less Adenosine Tri-Phosphate (ATP) available29. And in
fact, decreased butyrate uptake is universally observed in patients with IBD19,28,29,30,36. As we will see, this plays a vital role in the development of IBD and other western diseases, and is a consequence of our
“western diet” being significantly lower in fiber and resistant starches.

Onward then with continued daily use of psyllium-seed powder and a few beans.

Consuming pseed plus qing dai, consuming Collagen with vitamin C ( bone broth powder essentially ).

Briggs said...

If this is the case, this would mean that
while IBD is active, it would be wise to not try to increase SCFA levels, but to instead first focus on
getting the immune response under control – in particular through TNF-α inhibition

Briggs said...

The reason for this is that as food passes
through the intestines, the amount of fiber available for fermentation decreases, and therefore so does
the level of SCFAs7

This is tremendous that so many questions are answered. I have a playbook for my UC - so glad I had a 2nd chance to read this more carefully.

Post Edited (aguywithuc) : 2/25/2015 9:26:26 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/26/2015 11:29 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Mike - just curious to know something if you can help?

My UC was triggered after 2 years of constant stress and switching to a diet that was high in protein/animal fat but very low in carbs and fibres. I wonder if in my case, that combination was enough to breach the mucosal lining and start the chain reaction to cause UC? For instance, would that onslaught have been enough to alter the gut bacteria, allowing certain pathogen to breach the mucosa and set up the right conditions for what we call UC to kick off?

I've found that by following the Briggs protocol (along with a lot of helpful advice from PK's old posts), I'm enjoying a very stable remission. I wasn't able to get Bupropion on the NHS without an anxiety or depression diagnosis so I originally got my last mild flare under control with a week's worth of pred enemas then started the protocol.

Kev
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