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Posted 7/6/2015 1:14 PM (GMT 0)
Not sure it will matter at all, but perhaps hydrogen water is another story, don't know for sure.
At any rate our colon should be a low oxygen environment except right next to the colon cell surfaces,
or near any fresh blood,otherwise all the extra oxygen is from immune system oxidative bursts,peroxides ect.
OM


tungsten also somewhat toxic but read the patent gives more understanding of oxygen in the colon

http://techtransfer.universityofcalifornia.edu/NCD/23666.html


https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014200929A1?cl=en&dq=tungstate+inflammatory+bowel&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l8CbVa_ZNsOS-wHG7Z-wBg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/7/2015 6:26:27 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/14/2015 11:18 AM (GMT 0)
FS London/Tunnel:
Are you still taking ALA and how are you doing.
I am trying something somewhat different right now.
Just Riboflavin/Vitamin B2 100mg/day sometimes 200,occasional selenium and manganese.
This is sort of taking radical induction theory to a more basic form.
B2 seems necessary for the gut bugs to protect themselves from immune stress/oxidation.
B2 necessary for glutathione reductase, to make reduced glutathione in your body.

Flavins needed for the electron transport chain.
Sort of going on the theory/mine that the rest might take care of itself.
Some of this assumes that my important gut bugs are not totally killed off, and they might grow back.

Also facultative anaerobes should reduce, if less oxygen stress in colon,and there metabolism should

perhaps become more normalized.
Big assumptions.

Se for glutathione, Mn for arginase, to make sure arginine does not get too high, which supplies iNOS with

substrate to make NO.

All that said we still may need help from NAC, to protect our  anti-trypsin,perhaps depending on glutathione

status.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2833080
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/15/2015 3:47:14 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/14/2015 11:51 AM (GMT 0)
I would say I am moderately better, but it is very touch and go, frankly. The ALA hasn't made a dramatic change and I am also tinkering with my diet, although that after helping a lot seems to have stoppped working as well, although it has also helped at the margins.

Am inclined to keep with the ALA and add B2, selenium and manganese and see what happens.
Posted 7/15/2015 10:38 AM (GMT 0)
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14987320
Posted 7/15/2015 10:57 AM (GMT 0)
Well well well, hot of the press.

ROS can activate MMP's.

Anyway here is what is happening to Remicade/biologics, and at least one reason they can fail.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26170138



glutathione rate limiting step, not directly related to my above post just more info

on glutathione.  Trying to keep up with all of these pathways, really makes me wish I was a young biochemist.



This is achieved through use of transition-state inactivators of gamma-glutamylcysteine synthetase, the enzyme that catalyzes the first and rate-limiting step of glutathione synthesis


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1784629


not related to the above but another oxidant

eosinophil peroxidase

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26200014

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/23/2015 4:24:04 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/15/2015 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
So things have been interesting on my end.

I'll start with what I'm taking right now: Multivitamin 2x day (no iron), two 30g whey protein shakes morning and night, 2x sodium butyrate morning and night, 200 mg R-ALA, lialda, mesalamine enemas, and recently added a tiny bit of hydrocortisone to the enemas. The hydrocortisone was a recent addition.

My stools had slowly started becoming more firm, toilet bowl is often much clearer than it used to be, which indicates to me that at least the stools are getting firmer.

However, I was a total dumbass throughout the entire month of June. While I had all of the above in my regimen, every weekend, I was smoking massive amounts of hookah, exposed to second hand smoke, for hours at a time. I did this every weekend of June. According to Pravda, sudden cessation of smoking (which I was doing every single weekend) can exacerbate the problem and people have gone into flares or made flares worse by discontinuing smoking. I was dumb because I was under the impression that hookah was much safer than cigarette smoking until I researched it and learned that they are basically the same. So I had been smoking a ton every weekend. Progressively as June went on, I noticed an increase in symptoms which confused me at first. But then I connected the dots. Smoking hookah and exposure to the second hand smoke every weekend ended up making me flare up slightly after 4th of July weekend. So, lesson learned.

Another thing was that I had frequently thought my lack of urination was due to my colon not absorbing water until I learned the small intestine absorbs 95% of water you consume. So for about a year and a half, I have been mildly dehydrated, which I'm sure slows down the healing process if you have an injury (our colons in our cases). So drinking more water fixed that problem and I think it might have helped a little with symptom improvement. Also, I may have mentioned that I thought ALA was making me lose hair, and I don't think that is the case anymore. There may be other factors involved there.

Basically, I've noticed improvement in bowel movements and symptoms by trying to approach my UC in terms of reducing peroxide production, inhibiting WBCs, and trying to let my colon rebuild its lining.

Currently I am sick and my rectum/sigmoid area is more inflamed than usual. I presume it the smoking and also holding in bowel movements for much longer that have contributed to this.

What I mean is that as the proximal parts of my colon start to heal, I've noticed that frequency has been reduced. This is great, except that the distal areas of the colon are slower to heal and have a much higher exposure to bacteria and fecal matter which exacerbates the problem. So while it was great that I could go 6-8+ hours without a movement, my rectum was not very happy about this and started bleeding and swelling up because I held it in so long.

Under Pravda's theory, UC is really a vicious cycle. So as you get better, your colon lining might gain more exposure to fecal matter and bacteria before it is ready to handle it, thus causing more WBC inflitration and exacerbation of the original problem. Pravda emailed me back also saying that peroxides from WBCs also prompt colonocytes to make MORE peroxide. It's a positive feedback loop. There is so much intertia to overcome with regards to this disease. My experience with smoking and rectal flaring from holding in my BMs line up with Pravda's predictions and at least support the idea that UC is an attack against commensal bacteria.

All this leads me to believe that you need the steroids/mesalamine to overcome the cycle, as well as the sodium cromolyn to help the barrier get repaired faster. Anything that can be done to help the barrier get repaired faster and keep WBCs at bay will probably get you out of the vicious cycle.

So basically, I had begun getting better but the regular smoking eventually caught up (before it did, I did see regular improvement) and now holding in my BMs too long have put me out of commission. Once I get out of this, I am going to ask my GI if I could get sodium cromolyn (turns out it can be used for UC, so shouldn't be too hard) and then I'll ramp up my ALA dosage. I'd imagine this will all help, as I was experiencing improvement before.

Also, I asked Pravda about glutathione levels in all the studies in this thread, and he was kind enough to get back to me a while back on this. He answers his emails, but usually several weeks later.

So that's what's going on with me. Hopefully in a few weeks, I can report some actual good news. I've seen some actual promise with Pravda's method, and hopefully adding cromolyn and upping my ALA in addition to everything else i'm doing (as well as avoiding smoking and holding in BMs too long before I'm all healed) will yield full remission. Hopefully.

I am definitely better overall since being diagnosed, that's for sure.
Posted 7/15/2015 6:38 PM (GMT 0)
Tunnel:

Good reply from Pravda.

Here is that full paper on Ros induced ROS.

God talk about tuff read,I guess bottom line it has got to be stopped, shut down,quenched.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4101632/


something new on cancer and ROS

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-08-immune-cancerous-dna-mutations-infection.html


 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/7/2015 5:24:59 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/15/2015 6:48 PM (GMT 0)
Agreed, it just has to be stopped. There are too many things going on at once that contribute to worsening the original peroxide excess problem. That's why I think mesalamine and a little bit of steroids may be critical. The WBCs need to be taken care of because they produce additional peroxide, cytokines, and cause our cells to produce even more peroxide. It seems Pravda got a lot done with just a little bit of steroid too.

I seemed to have made progress with just mesalamine, little angry at myself for all the hookah smoking, it would've been interesting to see where I would be at if I just kept up the mesalamine enemas. Seems once you flare up, you need some additional meds to get back to normal because of the positive bio-feedback loop of peroxide. The problem gets worse and worse until you do more to stop it.
Posted 7/21/2015 4:25 PM (GMT 0)
OM, wanted to let you know I recently had a battery of blood tests and my Vitamin D levels are well within the range of healthy/good.  I've not had it tested before, so can't do a comparison to what it was pre-ALA, but figure if impaired VDR is an issue for some, it isn't for all of us.  Or the ALA has helped with my VDR, maybe. 
Posted 7/21/2015 5:29 PM (GMT 0)
FS: Good to know.
Yes, too bad you did not have an earlier test.
But at least you know that your vitamin D status is up to snuff.
OM
Posted 7/24/2015 5:09 PM (GMT 0)
Just read through the thread. Interesting stuff. Though I couldn't help but notice that this huge thread is just a discussion between 5 or so people. I'm curious to hear the opinions of others here. There are some very knowledgeable people on this board who I'm sure would have skeptical opinions, so I think their take would be quite insightful.
Posted 7/31/2015 10:39 PM (GMT 0)
Also, has anyone here actually tried Dr. Pravda's exact recommendation?

Tunnel, you at least are close, but I don't think I saw anyone in this thread who's orally taking "100 mg to about 1000 mg of R-dihydro-lipoic acid" AND who's using a daily enema consisting of:
- "500 mg to about 5000 mg of 5-ASA"
- "1 mg to about 10 mg of budesonide"
- "10 mg to about 1000 mg of cromolyn sodium"
- "5 millimoles to about 50 millimoles of sodium butyrate"
Posted 8/9/2015 2:27 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Mike,

I found a site for you when I was curious about extracellular H2O2 production by macrophages when they eat up bacteria. On the opposite side it turns out that intracellular NO production protects them from H2O2 induced apoptosis, and I just found it odd that intracellular bacteria up-regulate NO production but at low levels - and they manage to stay alive inside the cells and somehow prevent them from committing apoptosis.

Anyway, there is some decent info and some further resources under the links section you might be interested in. I bet they would be approachable as well if you were to ask some questions in regards to intracellular H2O2 production in UC.

redox.fc.ul.pt/index.html

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 8/8/2015 8:37:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/9/2015 11:00 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Mark, nice site, will read more. 
Bacteria have many ways to trick the immune system,looks like your above comment on NO is one of them.

Here is a new one, ever wonder why your thymus goes down hill after you reach early adulthood.

Peroxide of course.

Guess what NAC stops/slows it down

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-08-scientists-aging-cripples-immune-benefits.html

full paper

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(15)00734-2

Homer:

They write patents that way with dose ranges to protect the patent, you would not necessarily want

to use the high end of the dose range.

Old Mike

 

Posted 8/9/2015 1:56 PM (GMT 0)
Well I was going to mention the thymus a little earlier and always forgot: This comes from a lecture at school the other year. I had no idea about it (the organ) until the lecture.

You - meaning Old Mike, pretty much don't have one anymore. Yours has shrunk to about the size of a pea maybe. Atrophy (I think it's called) takes place - or I think there is another word for it really. However in a baby and through to our teens the thymus is quite large. Then it begins to shrink somewhere in our 20's.

So our thymus is generally where it is known that out T-cells become educated. They filter through it and the T-cells are selected by both positive selection (antibody binding specificity) and negative selection (auto-reactive) are the two main sections I think, something like that. B-cells have also recently been shown to also go to the thymus for maturation. It is here in the thymus that most of the "Auto-Reactive" T-cell are forced to commit suicide so they don't attack our own tissues. So roughly a few million cells go in - but only a couple come out alive... basically it's a giant cellular killing machine.

The ones that make it through then go on to serve the job of protecting us form foreign invaders and so on.

So the point of the lecture was actually that in elder people and people over say 40, they can still mount an immune response to a new foreign invader etc.... so the question in biology is where else, or how else are our cells being educated?... Is there another organ that compensates for this? And there is a lot of research going on right now to try and understand this.


EDIT: There is a also a very recent (this year) study that shows that approximately half (50%) of the cells that make it out of the thymus are in fact "auto-reactive". But it is suggested that they have a gene turned on that stops them from mounting an immune response against self tissue unless there is no other way to deal with it (the infecting organism), in which case the gene triggers off and the body allows them to attack the tissue. Not sure where this little theory will go but it is interesting.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 8/9/2015 8:07:35 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/9/2015 3:22 PM (GMT 0)
Sounds like Hotel California.

OM

of course I have an old thread on thymus involution, the strange thing is UC people

are not involuted,I wonder if I still have one.

The first link has to load from Japan takes some time but still works.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2599665

Posted 8/10/2015 12:48 AM (GMT 0)
Hi OM,

My apologies for posting a different topic in this thread.I had posted a thread few days ago about Intra-abdominal fat playing a role in a IBD. That post is moved to second page.

But I'm curious to know your opinion about this topic.

It seems the way intra abdominal fat promotes inflammation could give a clue to differentiate crohns and uncerative colitis The link below. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150805111019.htm

What is your opinion?

Posted 8/10/2015 1:18 AM (GMT 0)
Sweety: To tell you the truth I never seen anything on this,or was not paying much attention.
But they seem to have found that it is some sort of problem with inflammation.
I seem to remember that excess fat in general is inflammatory.
Also you can see from the study that we seem to have fat that acts different than fat in normal people
I cant imagine I have much, no fat on me to speak of.
Nor could my son who lost his colon, he was down to 125 pounds or so when they took it out.
OM
Posted 8/17/2015 10:04 AM (GMT 0)
Here is a negative for taking ALA, don't use with cyclosporine.

Now a question might become does it do this with any other meds.

OM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26276312

Posted 8/18/2015 2:30 PM (GMT 0)
Old Mike, how does RiT fit in with Briggs theory, or vice versa.
Posted 8/25/2015 4:08 AM (GMT 0)
Just thought the citations in both of these might be of interest/value to you in regards to excessive H2O2. Both of these have some very detailed links to ROS/H202 and such along with some very interesting comments.

www.pnas.org/content/110/45/E4256.full.pdf There are some interesting citations on colonic inflammation in this one.

www.biotek.com/assets/tech_resources/ROS%20White%20Paper_2015.pdf

One is on TB in general and the other is more a marketing thing for detection of ROS and such. But the citations in them are what I was posting for you.

------------

Also it suggests Vitamin C, which we have all read about the anti-oxidant effects, but I cannot remember if you added this to what you were doing. Seems kind of obvious now that I type the words Vitamin C, ha.

------------

Also the whole Nitrate reduction to Nitrite survival tactic of TB is very interesting. There is a type of MAP state that Professor Herman Taylor calls 'persister state' in long term Crohn's patients. Someone posted on this very recently in regards to their test results. She said he told her there were 5 types of MAP states - or growth patterns might have been the term - or if he didn't tell her it was presented in that recent MAP symposium. One of the two. Does not matter. Was just interesting. She was told she had MAP present in the 'persister' state.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 8/24/2015 10:12:27 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/25/2015 4:28 AM (GMT 0)
Also you might want to try eating lot's of honey and taking sulfasalazine at the same time. Or for those currently taking sulpha, just try eating more honey. See if you notice anything.

nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/4567/1/IJEB%2046%288%29%20583-590.pdf
Posted 8/25/2015 5:19 AM (GMT 0)
Old Mike, How's your anti oxidant experiment going? I'm thinking about trying NAC but afraid of the gastrointestinal side effects. How much do you take? Have you seen any side effects from NAC?
----

I would really like to use NAC but I'm too afraid of its mucolytic effect. This effect is underestimated I think. My main worry isn't the colonic mucus; but respiratory system's mucus. Can you imagine how much NAC can increase risk of getting respiratory infections? I already get these infections frequently.

An air conditioner nearly open 7/24 + taking a mucolytic agent every day... That would jump the risk.

Post Edited (xy123) : 8/24/2015 11:41:32 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/25/2015 12:08 PM (GMT 0)
I have not been taking anything much since I had a case of norovirus, and I am now two weeks out
from having a molar pulled, so until that is completely healed wont take anything.
I was also concerned about the NAC and mucolytic effects, I have taken quite a bit, and was looking
specifically for that, did not notice anything. I was taking up to 1800mg a day, but backed off to 600,I did think that 1800 was too much,more D if I remember.
Believe thought it does have a strong biofilm dissolving effect, try swishing a little bit in your mouth, taste awful and quite sour,some burning also. Do not try in enema form.
But your teeth will be squeaky clean.
OM
Posted 11/4/2015 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
Just wanted to give an update, I know it's been a few months.

So I tried all the things that Pravda had in his patent, plus I had mesalamine pills, enemas, and i'm on Humira.

All of that certainly helped, but I had reached a plateau. Some might recall that I had been in recovery from self-induced starvation from crash dieting. I did this for about a year and half, and recovery has been a long process with a lot of setbacks, mostly because I had a lot of mental stuff to work through to get to a point where I could truly heal.

At the end of July, I started to eat a lot more food (recovery amounts are about 3500+ calories a day) and almost immediately experienced symptom improvement. Solid stools, greatly reduced frequency, little to no urgency, no pain, no cramping. Progress wasn't linear. I'll have a great day with no symptoms and then the next few days i'll be going more frequently with loose stools. But then i'll have some good days again. It's slowly becoming more consistent. My CRP is in normal range and my ESR is two points above normal as of mid October 2015. This was after they had been sky high for about a year straight.

My regimen has been lialda (4.8g/day), mesalamine enemas (w/ tiny amount (3 mL) of hydrocortisone mixed in), humira once every two weeks, 200 mg of ALA per day, 4 pills of sodium butyrate per day, and then 200 mg of bi****h subgallate (brand name Devrom) 3x per day, whey protein shake twice a day, plus an iron free multivitamin. I still do all this but now I also eat a lot more food to help my original problem, which has helped my UC greatly.

I did this for 3 months (was on humira for six months) by this time with minimal improvement. The thing that set me into healing and actually making progress was pursuing recovery from the damage I did to myself from crash dieting. In fact, there was an almost overnight difference for me at first. So I don't think Humira has contributed significantly to my success. It's helped, sure, but I even flared up a bit while on it so I don't think it was getting to the root problem at all.

I'm reluctant to make absolute conclusions, but I do think Pravda is correct about UC. Under his model, all the reasons I've ever flared up or have had an increase in symptoms have been predicted. I stay away from drinking too much, smoking completely, overworking my body, and try to manage stress. I think traditional UC meds are an important part of the process, simply having taurine isn't going to work. I suspect in about a year's time, I'm going to be consistently doing better, simply because recovery takes a long time.

For those who think starvation/emaciation/calorie restriction might be a problem (I've never been underweight btw, and it's still been a problem for me), I recommend reading around youreatopia.com

I'm staying away from health/disease forums in general for the sake of my mental health, so I probably won't be back for another few months, but I do believe all the info one could want about what i've done can be found in any of my posts in this thread. If you've got nothing to lose, give it a shot. I was hopeful with this information but never actually expected to make such great improvements. Hopefully in about a year I'll be able to say I'm back at 100% but even if I'm not, I could easily live with the level of symptoms I have now for the rest of my life. Again, progress has been full of ups and downs for me, but overall it has been a slow and steady decrease in symptoms over time. I never thought my colon would be able to feel normal again.

Post Edited (Tunnelvisionary) : 11/4/2015 1:23:25 PM (GMT-7)

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