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Another decent video but this time with a small 'organism' implication in UC teaser

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 10/9/2015 2:32 AM (GMT 0)
I did no realize this was posted on the Crohn's Infection Website:
thecrohnsinfection.org/the-current-state-of-crohns-treatment-dr-david-rubin/

He threw out this little teaser...... You can skip to 20:00 mins a watch for say 3 minutes to hear it, but I would recommend watching the whole thing if you can find the time.

Here is what he said with a bit of a smile:

"We have some research in our institution that has identified a different organism that seems to evade testing and evade treatment, and may be similar to the way we’re thinking of M.A.P. that may be driving ulcerative colitis."

Well this will be interesting to see what comes about...

I thought this GI actually gave a very decent and fair presentation on IBD in general with a lot of interesting historical stuff in a way - more so he spoke of Ulcerative Colitis a fair amount - as the two diseases are rising in similar fashion.

Old Mike the talk of Southeast Asia and rise in Ulcerative Colitis near the end will certainly interest you.

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In any case I thought this was another video well worth watching for any with Crohn's or Ulcerative colitis.

Also it's very sad to hear of the death of his mentor's wife from Ulcerative-Colitis. I think we forget that in the past people actually did die from these diseases.
Posted 10/9/2015 2:55 AM (GMT 0)
I guess it's also worth saying that 'organism' can mean a lot - well one of four things really bacteria, fungi, parasite or virus.

But there have been a lot of 'organisms' implicated but nothing come through to fruition. Perhaps that is the evading and detection issue common to both diseases.
Posted 10/9/2015 3:38 AM (GMT 0)
Havent watched it yet (will in the AM) but Im pretty sure it wont be a virus since, you know, they arent technically organisms : p
Posted 10/9/2015 4:16 AM (GMT 0)
Good video. I know people who are very happy with him as their physician.
Thanks for posting.
Posted 10/9/2015 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
Mark: Read the whole thing, he did not say much that is new, except of course when he mentioned

the organism.

I will say, I think I have it posted here somewhere that IBD started to increase or became known in Korea

sometime after MAP was discovered in herds.

Old Mike


here are some not sure they invade macrophages

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19369513

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 10/9/2015 1:56:06 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/9/2015 9:00 PM (GMT 0)
@ OM - Nothing new, no, but I think the outlook in general was different again and presentation was pretty good - more along the lines of Dr. Marcel Behr type approach to it. Cautiously optimistic perhaps would be a good term. He made a few really good points I thought.

In regards to South East Asia I just found it really interesting that it is Ulcerative Colitis that is the main and dramatic rise in that region versus Crohn’s Disease. I guess I never paid attention to that particular distinction in your threads on it. Nor how severe the sudden rise actually was.

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@maurader... true enough... or is it??? :P I am not so sure now.

I would have totally agreed up until two weeks ago when I was given a definition as follows - "An infectious, obligate intracellular parasite" where the 'virus' is an actual 'organism' when inside the cell, actively replicating, mutating and producing new viruses, and the 'virion' is the innate infectious non- living particle sitting on say your desk doing nothing. However this was the teacher/lecturers (virologist) opinion. This made sense.

Often they, in their 'virus' forms, replicating inside a cell, are referred to as 'organisms' and sometimes 'biological entities' without the distinction or concern of living or non-living definitions.

It's quite the debate - the living, non-living thing etc.

As for where that came from - I was totally curious what a Virology course would be like for nothing more than sheer general interest - so I downloaded a virology course two weeks ago for the heck of it and watched the first few lectures - the first was titled "what is a virus?” in which he spoke of this very terminology and question.

Turns out they are absolutely fascinating. Since you like biochemistry, you should download a course and just watch a few lectures. You might be fascinated as well. Really the complexity in a way blew me away - how the outer coating “protein coat” is made of single, repetitive, non-covalent bonded proteins that give them not only their symmetrical shape (helical or round) with some minor exceptions, but how this design (the non-covalent bonds) are what gives them ability to ‘spring’ open with the right chemical trigger and release their DNA/RNA for replication. And the ‘spike’ on bacteriaphages with the iron tip that punctures bacterial cell walls before inserting their DNA. From a biochemistry perspective they are fascinating... and I freaking hate/suck at chemistry! But I was like wow, this is pretty darn funky.

PS - I seem to be infected with one of these whatever-they-are's at this very moment. Driving me nutz.
Posted 10/10/2015 1:38 AM (GMT 0)
Hey Old Mike,

I think this is what he was referring to about the 'organism':

"Meanwhile, working with researchers at Argonne and the University-affiliated Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Massachusetts—the computational tools developed at MBL and Argonne’s high-through-put genome sequencing technology make possible much of the microbiome research at UChicago—Chang is learning that some patients aren’t “wired correctly” to react to pathogens in the gut. And those pathogens are associated with ulcerative colitis. “There’s almost certainly some kind of miswiring of their circuitry that leads them to respond inappropriately to microbes in general, but in particular maybe to these types of pathogens,” Chang says. The bad bugs seem to have genes that can generate a “cloaking device” that allows them to elude the immune system. This research is early and ongoing. “We need to get more patients,” Chang says, “but it’s very exciting.”


mag.uchicago.edu/science-medicine/microbial-me

Took awhile to track that down.. Was an interesting read to. Actually it;s quite exciting if anything comes about from it.

He must have a paper on this somewhere. Or article or comment that names a few suspects.
www.uchospitals.edu/physicians/eugene-chang.html

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@Maurader - You are correct!! haha
Posted 10/10/2015 6:16 AM (GMT 0)
Mark, you've been posting a lot recently about, let's call it, a microbial theory for IBD. I also noticed you were quite interested in the Pravda oxidative stress theory. So I was just curious what your thoughts are right now regarding those two theories. Do you believe one and not so much the other? Do you believe in parts of both?
Posted 10/10/2015 9:59 AM (GMT 0)
Good stuff Mark, interesting story.
AIEC is I think another that may also hide in cells.
As they said somewhere, it looks like the intracellular bacteria are difficult to kill, since they turn
on efflux pumps and I guess pump antibiotics out of the cell.
Another part of the problem is defective or impaired autophagy, the bacteria may also cause this
to happen, not sure on that one.

Homer one way that bacteria ties in with the oxidation, is that all the oxygen around from ROS,peroxides,
kills of some bacteria, others turn into facultative anaerobes, populations shift.
Then we have all this iron around from blood, causing more ROS, plus now the bugs are not iron restricted, and the ones like certain ecoli now have an unlimited supply, they can out compete others.
Old Mike
Posted 10/10/2015 1:57 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for posting. So great to see someone with such a flexible approach, who knows the history and is aware that theories have come and gone and has the confidence to challenge and without the arrogance of believing only he can be right.

Yes, the microorganism thing was a teaser - I was thinking, if it evades testing, how do they know and how have they found it?

Makes you wonder again about turning the whole autoimmune thing on its head. They say that maybe people had super active immune systems to combat dangerous entero infections when living in poor conditions but maybe the opposite? The immune system turned down to allow the human to adapt and survive organisms that it could not at first combat and now we are not set up to combat some of what the environment is throwing at us?
Posted 10/12/2015 10:05 AM (GMT 0)
Talking of IBD in China, came across this paper that seems to be suggesting a certain infective agent
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24086553
This is the first study reporting the prevalence of zot in human oral C. concisus strains and the polymorphisms of C. concisus zot gene. The data suggest that the possible role of C. concisus strains containing specific polymorphic forms of zot gene in human IBD should be investigated.
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