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Posted 12/24/2015 3:59 AM (GMT 0)
NCOT - I have no idea why you are making such ridculous claims about
claimed untold multitudes for whom surgery was a supposedly bad choice. My
experience has been that if surgery is an option for a condition that is only marginally controllable with medication, take the surgery route. As my doctor once said -"Let's just take it out" (one of my adrenal glands). This after some surgery-hating nephrologist had tried and utterly failed to control my blood pressure for two years using every blood pressure medicine in the books. Due to my high blood pressure I always had a slight headache which no medicen could relieve. After mu laproscopic adrenalectomy, my blood pressure ran normal and no need for any pills and no more constant headache. Considering the deplorable condition which many UC folks find themselves in, I'm amazed that more don't opt for surgery. In my mind, any success rate over 90% is plenty good enough odds. I can't imagine why anyone would spend half their life trying to scare people away from this surgery.
It's a no-brainer in my book. And I don't even suffer from UC. I would encourage all those who have little prospect of living a normal life to opt for the surgery - it does not appear to be a particularly difficult procedure from my viewpoint, since the sucess rate is so high.
Posted 12/24/2015 4:39 AM (GMT 0)

bike45 said...
NCOT - I have no idea why you are making such ridculous claims about
claimed untold multitudes for whom surgery was a supposedly bad choice. My
experience has been that if surgery is an option for a condition that is only marginally controllable with medication, take the surgery route. As my doctor once said -"Let's just take it out" (one of my adrenal glands). This after some surgery-hating nephrologist had tried and utterly failed to control my blood pressure for two years using every blood pressure medicine in the books. Due to my high blood pressure I always had a slight headache which no medicen could relieve. After mu laproscopic adrenalectomy, my blood pressure ran normal and no need for any pills and no more constant headache. Considering the deplorable condition which many UC folks find themselves in, I'm amazed that more don't opt for surgery. In my mind, any success rate over 90% is plenty good enough odds. I can't imagine why anyone would spend half their life trying to scare people away from this surgery.
It's a no-brainer in my book. And I don't even suffer from UC. I would encourage all those who have little prospect of living a normal life to opt for the surgery - it does not appear to be a particularly difficult procedure from my viewpoint, since the sucess rate is so high.



Welcome aboard !

But Im wondering why you joined this forum to post about a disease you have no first hand knowledge of ????

Curious scool

Merry Christmas !
Posted 12/24/2015 5:44 AM (GMT 0)
bike45, respectfully since you don't have UC you don't know first hand what we deal with. So since you don't have UC why don't you just have your colon out just for the heck of it? No? Why not? The surgeries we face are not to be taken lightly. The colon is a major organ - yes we can we live without it but to compare it to an andrenal gland is preposterous. Does the adrenal gland make you have to poop in a bag for the rest of your life?
Posted 12/24/2015 12:46 PM (GMT 0)

bike45 said...
NCOT - I have no idea why you are making such ridculous claims about
claimed untold multitudes for whom surgery was a supposedly bad choice.

And it baffles me why you were not only browsing a forum for a condition you don't have in the first place, but then decided to join up and contribute your utterly irrelevant surgery experiences. There is clearly not one single thing I have said in this whole topic you have managed to understand correctly. It seems to me like you just wanted to have your little platform for a rant all of your own. I'm not anti-surgery - that should be blatantly clear to anyone who didn't have a vested interest in dividing this topic strictly into two camps: pro and anti surgery. It doesn't even begin to be that clearcut. If only.

And that's all I have to say on the day before Christmas. THis debate has gotten too ridiculous even for me. Like ByeByeUC, I'm out of here.

...

I came back for a second round >_>.

bike45 said...
I have no idea why you are making such ridculous claims

What ridiculous claims would these be? I'm not aware of making any claims beyond saying that not everybody who has j-pouch surgery has an excellent outcome. For your info, actual figures would appear to put the percentage who do at around the 40% mark, but since most statistics are made up anyway, you might as well just cite 95% instead and hope that nobody notices the tiny discrepancy.

bike45 said...
It's a no-brainer in my book. And I don't even suffer from UC. I would encourage all those who have little prospect of living a normal life to opt for the surgery - it does not appear to be a particularly difficult procedure from my viewpoint, since the sucess rate is so high.

Of course it's a no-brainer in your book because you know nothing about it. It's a no-brainer to me that everyone who sufferes from adrenal problems should have their adrenal glands removed, even though what I know about adrenal glands could be summarised in a text message. Why bother with living with two adrenal glands when one can do the job? Probably. Well, I think it can. Not sure.

Do you know any more about the colon than I do about adrenal glands? Probably not.

Personally, now I've calmed down a bit, I'm inclined to think you are a troll and not for real anyway - something about your post just doesn't ring true. If you were trolling, then congratulations: you got your bait. I truly hope it makes your Christmas a fufilling one.

Post Edited (NiceCupOfTea) : 12/24/2015 6:21:21 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/24/2015 1:38 PM (GMT 0)

notsosicklygirl said...
In reality, most major hospitals do accept a lot of insurance plans and most top surgeons practice out of these hospitals. Many top surgeons are covered by insurance and it's just a matter of traveling to their location (which could cost some $ but probably a few 1000 when you really break it down). Here in the US, you would get the hospital covered - likely 100%, and that's the majority of the cost. The fees for the surgeon would be worked out directly with the surgeon. Depending on your medical insurance, they would most likely pay a percentage for out-of-network providers. Let's say it was 5k or 15k even, isn't that worth it?

People go into way more debt than for a college education here... People go to unaccredited schools and come out with tons of debt and that's really a toss of the dice. Finding a good job can be another lottery, but you don't say, eh, forget it, I will go into it uneducated, you get a skill-set and give yourself a decent chance.

People also have elective surgeries to change their physical appearance, that's never covered by insurance, yet people spend 10 or 15k out of pocket. Life requires spending money sometimes.

It sucks to spend your hard earned money on something insurance should cover, but i'd rather spend it if that's what it takes and get the best result possible than not spend it and end up feeling like I didn't give myself a chance.

What if you're not middle class and don't have insurance or the insurance you have is utter turd? What if you're on minimum wage and simply don't even have 1K in savings, let alone 15K?

Cosmetic surgery is completely irrelevant to this argument. Some people are rich and probably spend 10K on diamond-studded dog collars for their pooches. I'm not against that, if that's how they want to spend their money. It's just of no relevance here.

Feels like I'm living in bizarro world on HW sometimes. If I had lived in America instead of the UK, I'd be either dead or bankrupt by now. Actually it would probably be my parents who would be up to their eyeballs in medical debt, not me, since I doubt I could have got the necessary loans in the first place to go bankrupt with.

I very rarely say this, but I'm going to say it now: thank god for the NHS.
Posted 12/24/2015 2:07 PM (GMT 0)

NiceCupOfTea said...

What if you're not middle class and don't have insurance or the insurance you have is utter turd? What if you're on minimum wage and simply don't even have 1K in savings, let alone 15K?

Then life is really hard, whether or not you have UC, and whether or not you need to have surgery.

You seemed to miss the valid points NSSG was making. Top facilities in the US take most insurance plans, including medicare. From a patients standpoint, getting more experienced surgeon does not mean it will cost the patient more out of pocket than getting a less experienced surgeon. I have a pretty typical plan, and at the time of my first j-pouch surgery, I had already reached my out of pocket limit (thanks to Remicade) so I did not have to pay any out of pocket expenses for my surgeries or related medical expenses like ostomy supplies or hospital charges. It would have cost me the same ($0) whether I had gone to Remzi at Cleveland Clinic or found a general surgeon who never performed a j-pouch surgery.

Just wanted to clear that up so people who don't understand how insurance works and are looking into surgery are not deterred from finding the best care reasonably possible.
Posted 12/24/2015 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
You seemed to miss the valid points NSSG was making

I probably did, but I'm not about to learn the intricacies of US healthcare insurance in order to catch them. It bores me to tears reading about it, I have absolutely no interest in co-pays, deductions, etc. - another reason I'd be lost in your system. I'd probably have a flare-up alone from the stress of having to deal with all that insane bureaucracy and wrangling.

All I know I don't have the knowledge to contradict or agree with you, but you do paint a rose-tinted picture which doesn't seem quite believable to me. I really do doubt that every American could have a Cleveland Clinic surgeon, if they only so choose. That's not really how supply and demand works - rare, expensive products/services/people are rare and expensive because most people can't afford them. Otherwise, they'd be cheap and commonplace.

Maybe I'm wrong. At this stage I'm so tired and bored I don't actually care.

PS: I know some people have good insurance already. You having good insurance doesn't make me change my mind about anything I've previously said, because it's not a new fact to me. It's quite clear that some Americans benefit and others suffer from their healthcare system.

Post Edited (NiceCupOfTea) : 12/24/2015 7:40:39 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/24/2015 4:27 PM (GMT 0)
Someone is paying for the the NHS - tax payers. I wish we had a system like that here, but unfortunately we do not. Actually, as a working person, the system here may benefit me more than paying really high taxes. We basically pay for a monthly plan (with all the boring copay, coinsurance, out of pocket and deductible crap) and then we pay that coinsurance up until we hit an agreed upon #. Mine was $2500. After that, it's 100%. I, like atwoodt, I had spent my maximum out of pocket, so I paid nothing. My surgeon was out of network so I will pay him after my insurance covers their share. I could have gone to Dr Remzi and it would have been 100% covered, but it would have been to difficult and costly for me to travel - probably less than I spent overall but inconvenient. Dr Remzi is in-network with most PPO plans. We have plans called HMO too, they are much less expensive but the plan dictates the doctors you can see. Stuff usually costs you nothing with HMO but restricts you a lot. I can get that for free through my job.

Some definitely benefit and others suffer. I don't think the system particularly works. It works for me right now because I am employed. I would love for everyone to have healthcare, but at the same time, as a working person, why am I paying my tax money to ensure other people benefit? That benefits some more than others too... It would be nice if we could get that system without a huge tax increase but I don't think that's possible.
Posted 12/24/2015 5:06 PM (GMT 0)

NiceCupOfTea said...
You seemed to miss the valid points NSSG was making

I probably did, but I'm not about to learn the intricacies of US healthcare insurance in order to catch them. It bores me to tears reading about it, I have absolutely no interest in co-pays, deductions, etc. - another reason I'd be lost in your system. I'd probably have a flare-up alone from the stress of having to deal with all that insane bureaucracy and wrangling.

All I know I don't have the knowledge to contradict or agree with you, but you do paint a rose-tinted picture which doesn't seem quite believable to me. I really do doubt that every American could have a Cleveland Clinic surgeon, if they only so choose. That's not really how supply and demand works - rare, expensive products/services/people are rare and expensive because most people can't afford them. Otherwise, they'd be cheap and commonplace.

Maybe I'm wrong. At this stage I'm so tired and bored I don't actually care.

PS: I know some people have good insurance already. You having good insurance doesn't make me change my mind about anything I've previously said, because it's not a new fact to me. It's quite clear that some Americans benefit and others suffer from their healthcare system.

I don't understand what value you think you're attributing by attempting to draw an over-simplified metaphor for a system you don't understand. While I would be happy to explain the basics of how health insurance works in the US, it's clear you have no interest in learning and prefer to make assumptions based off anecdotes you have allegedly heard from other people, even if doing so means spreading false information.
Posted 12/24/2015 6:09 PM (GMT 0)
I need a like button for atwoodt's above post.

If ever a thread was deserving of being locked it's this one. Lol
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