If you believe MAP is causing IBD

Have to repost this old study.
Seems that MAP is killed by TNF and inos, and il-6 seems to help it survive. But perhaps
most important it is using your own SOD as protection. If I supplement with SOD i get worse.
Perhaps the body knows what it is doing with all the inos and TNF generation in IBD.
Perhaps and supplements with manganese are counter productive.
I also get worse on arginine, which can generate lots of NO, collateral damage.
Old Mike
/pdfs.semanticscholar.org/06c0/3e7b190d980d0e355bb3dce47558467eee4f.pdf

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 2/12/2018 9:03:34 AM (GMT-7)

The only thing available right now that can kill MAP is anti-MAP therapy... you have to use a combo of antibiotics. Humanpara.org has all you need to know. The most studied 3 antibiotics are clarithromycin, rifabutin (or rifampin) and clofazimine, but others have been shown to work.

Mike... this is an interesting research report, but it doesn't address IBD or the suspected immunodeficiency that IBD patients have against MAP. A lot of health population controls have MAP in their blood but it doesn't seem to be causing a problem vs. IBD patients whose immune systems can't control it. This is the entire basis of the Crohn's MAP vaccine under development, to introduce a T-cell that can recognize and fight MAP, effectively re-training the immune system.

Thanks for the info Mike. If the SOD/MAP theory is true, then why would AMAT work for most people? It either clears the bacterium or it suppresses it into permanent dormancy. I suppose antibiotics themselves would eventually deplete the body of glutathione and SOD2, especially if a patient has difficulties with phase II detoxing... but even that isn't enough to explain it.

MAP is generally not found directly in bowel lesions in humans like it is in cattle with Johne's disease. Instead it tends to be in the peripheral lymphatic tissue, especially in the terminal ileum.

Crohn's is most likely caused by MAP, almost universally. UC is another story. Some people with UC have MAP levels that are equivalent to those in healthy non-UC populations. According to hygiene theory, because MAP is in most human beings (by virtue of it being everywhere in the environment), it may have an immune regulatory effect... which is why the body never really clears it. But why it would induce disease in some people and not in others is still hotly debated. The most common leading theory with the most available evidence is an innate immunodeficiency of the T-cell variety, which is why the Crohn's MAP Vaccine project hopes to develop a synthetic T cell that can teach those patients' immune systems how to combat MAP.

The additional problem with MAP is that it not only evades detection by the host immune system, but it also prevents apoptosis of its host cell until it is ready to release its reproduced numbers.

This is a very complicated topic but thank you Mike for posting some info.

This is even stranger, I wonder if those who use apple cider vinegar are onto something.
OM
/www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140225101501.htm

ok that is strong acetic acid

now look at this
we can can see that low concentrations promote growth but higher kills we are talking about
milli moles here
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9025686

now we have another one we all know smoking makes crohn's worse
www.faculty.biol.vt.edu/falkinham/Articles/JCM2757.pdf

getting back to acetate for a minute


/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC425482/

something else interesting on acetate and immune function
www.cell.com/immunity/pdfExtended/S1074-7613(16)30105-4

all of this probably means nothing but who knows. They are measuring plasma acetate,
what if it can accumulate in cells and at a higher concentration. High enough to kill MAP.

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 2/14/2018 4:18:48 AM (GMT-7)