Anybody worried about getting Measles?

Warning guys and gals to keep this thread civil and respectful of other's opinions. People's ingrained opinions aren't likely to be changed based on any discussion points given within this thread, experience dictates it is much more likely to only make him/her dig their own heels in even further and this thread will only get progressively more and more defensive and ugly (devolve into a flaming war as feeling get hurt). Keeping an eye on this thread and will lock if this continues,
Cheers!

iPoop said...
Warning guys and gals to keep this thread civil and respectful of other's opinions. People's ingrained opinions aren't likely to be changed based on any discussion points given within this thread, experience dictates it is much more likely to only make him/her dig their own heels in even further and this thread will only get progressively more and more defensive and ugly (devolve into a flaming war as feeling get hurt).

This is a little different than the debate if you should go on a biological or have surgery. We are not going to change their minds because that is a fruitless effort but I am concerned about the rhetoric of antivaxxers questioning science and causing people to go without protection that makes us all safer as a society. I’m worried about future antivaxxers, the current ones are a lost cause.

These people are putting our health and lives at risk, they should be shunned and ridiculed. If an antivaxxer spreads measles they should be charged with assault and if the person they infect dies then they should be charged with man slaughter. This is all preventable and that is the infuriating thing about it.

The autism scare was created by a Dr. Andrew Wakefield who lost his license to practice medicine. His so called study was proven to be a fraud. He paid 12 kids that attended his daughter's birthday party to let him take a blood sample. There are people in this world that will believe anything they read or hear. Then we also have the Jenny McCarthy followers on FB, lol. I always remember my mother telling me when I was a kid, there are leaders & followers in this world. Never be a follower of anything, she was a smart woman.

People who say they are scientific, then get their information from a facebook montage ..... shakes head.
People who say they got their illness a couple of years after a vaccine series.... shakes head.

Lol, condescending to the lay people... a Facebook montage with an agenda.
Yes, you have your feelings, and then you try to make those feelings into thoughts....that is called an anecdote, not science.

ks1905 said...
Skipping and postponing vaccines is anti-vaxxing.
People who don’t get vaccines at the prescribed times shouldn’t be allowed out in public, they are a threat to the public and our health.

I agree, we should especially make sure that ALL newborn babies receive their hepatitis B vaccine immediately after birth, whether or not their mothers were tested for hepatitis.

After all with all those sexually promiscuous babies running around and infant IV drug users, you can't be too careful.

post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

Example: You got a vaccine. Shortly thereafter something negatively changed in your health. Therefore that change was caused by the vaccine.

Ambling said...
https://www.autismspeaks.org/science-news/no-mmr-autism-link-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-kids
I suppose IAC will never be convinced!
There are so many studies debunking the autism myth.

As I posted earlier in this thread, both the Director of the National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities and the head of the CDC both finally had to admit (after hard questioning of course) that a comprehensive study comparing the overall health of a vaccinated population and an unvaccinated population has never been done in the United States.

The two studies you offered don't change anything. I sent you an excellent rebuttal to the first Danish study that you cited and it speaks for itself. The 2nd study you mentioned, Jain et al., has its own problems as you can see:

http://autismrawdata.net/blog/questionable-finding-in-the-sibling-mmrasd-study
The authors list several limitations to their study, which include quantitative bias analysis, nondifferential outcome misclassification, differential outcome misclassification.
The authors list several conflicts of interest

http://paulthomasmd.com/2015/05/11/autism-occurrence-by-mmr-vaccine-status-among-us-children-with-older-siblings-with-and-without-autism-study/
They go on to state “these findings indicate no harmful association between MMR vaccine receipt and ASD even among children already at higher risk for ASD.  I would add that given the lack of significance in their findings, and study design issues, this study also does not clarify at all whether the MMR was associated with an increased risk of autism or not...
It would be nice to see the data that included those children.  It is not clear why those with “neuromuscular, cardiovascular, respiratory, renal, gastrointestinal. hematologic or immunologic, metabolic, other congenital or genetic defects, and malignant neoplasms” were excluded.  Several fancy statistical analyses were done adding little to the understanding of this data...
We need straight forward studies that compare apples to apples, compare vaccinated to non-vaccinated or to selectively vaccinated populations...
This study leaves me as uninformed as I was before I read it, on the issue they claim to address: autism rates and their relationship to MMR.

Ambling said...
There are so many studies debunking the autism myth.

I don't think so but if you can find a valid study then please share it. (Epidemiology studies don't count, those are the type of “studies” in the 1950's that showed no connection between smoking and cancer.)
Vaccine critics have often demanded “vax-unvax” studies comparing health outcomes fully-vaccinated and never-vaccinated children. The CDC and orthodox medicine generally REFUSE to conduct or fund such research.

http://vaccinepapers.org/alleged-vax-unvaxed-debunked/
Vaccine promoters use 2 arguments to justify the refusal to study the never-vaccinated:
1) randomization is unethical, because vaccines would need to be withheld from some subjects. Vaccines are so wonderful that it would be unethical to withhold them, even temporarily.
2) observational studies are useless because of selection bias. The unvaccinated differ in many ways from those that choose to be vaccinated, rendering the results meaningless.

Ambling said...
The coincidental increase that the anti vaxxers jump on (ignorantly) corresponds to a change in the psychological evaluation of autism, with a broader spectrum of patients being diagnosed under the umbrella of autism.
Again, as has already been stated numerous times, no amount of fact or logic will change an anti vaxxers mind.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said recently there was a full 15 percent increase in the rate of autism in just two years, and that ”new diagnostic criteria for autism adopted in 2013 (DSM-5) made only a slight difference in prevalence estimates.” The CDC believes that it must be something in the environment but insist it cannot be vaccines.
https://www.autismspeaks.org/science-news/cdc-increases-estimate-autisms-prevalence-15-percent-1-59-children

ambling said...
No amount of studies will ever convince you that you are wildly misinformed.
You seek to spread fear about things you don't understand.
You go out of your way to mislead and misdirect people.
That is the nature of the conspiracy theorists.

Ignorance is bliss. The problem is that these people are making decisions that effect other people’s lives and put them at risk. This stuff was all promoted by Russian bots on Social Media and Infowars.

They can spread these illnesses to innocent people who were at risk because they were immunocompromised or too young to get vaccines.

ks1905 said...
Ignorance is bliss. The problem is that these people are making decisions that effect other people’s lives and put them at risk. This stuff was all promoted by Russian bots on Social Media and Infowars.

They can spread these illnesses to innocent people who were at risk because they were immunocompromised or too young to get vaccines.

You're so condescending and for what reason? What is wrong with people having informed consent before they get vaccines? Did you ignore the fact that I never said people *shouldn't* get vaccines, just that it's good to know everything about them, including information readily viewed on the package insert?

You have no proof that this is because of the Russians. That's what everybody says when they hear something they don't like on the internet. They blame the Russians. You are also accusing me of being a total idiot who can't think for myself, when really we just disagree. Why do you have to turn a simple disagreement into an evaluation of a person's mental competency? Do you not see how that is violence and harmful communication?

If you don't want to read information that makes you feel uncomfortable, then that's fine; it's also fine if you 100% disagree with me. What's not acceptable is speaking on my behalf. Don't call me ignorant because I'm not. I'm more well read on this subject than you -- clearly. The way you characterize others you disagree with is utterly despicable and vile. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Control freaks, lol.
It's called society, and it is governed by rules for the greater good. In this case it is scientifically tested and rigorously organised vaccination to prevent outbreaks of measles, which is caused entirely by people who refuse to get vaccinated.
We force people to lock up guns and to drive sober, but this you react against!

IAC said...
we are NOT against vaccines and support the dozen or so vaccines to prevent most childhood diseases.

But we have questions about forcing little ones on an “all or none” vaccination schedule that is injecting 26 vaccines, with all their toxic adjuvants, before the end of their first year.

MarkWithIBD said...

You have no proof that this is because of the Russians. That's what everybody says when they hear something they don't like on the internet. They blame the Russians. You are also accusing me of being a total idiot who can't think for myself, when really we just disagree.

There have been studies about Russian Trolls promoting anti-vaccine propaganda. Plenty of credible news stories about it too.

Here is a news story about one of the studies https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-trolls-fueled-anti-vaccination-debate-in-us-by-spreading-misinformation-twitter-study/

“In the study, professor David Broniatowski and his colleagues say the Russian trolls' efforts mimic those used in the past. Such trolls ramp up controversial issues in the U.S. by inflating different viewpoints, the study says.

The U.S. is in the midst of the worst measles outbreak in the country in 25 years. Health officials say misinformation and anti-vax messages have led more people to avoid vaccination, allowing the disease to spread.”

The only proof that I don’t have is if you are a Russian Troll or not.