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Posted 6/19/2019 11:11 AM (GMT 0)

MarkWithIBD said...
Forcing people to vaccinate is wrong. I don't care how right you think you are.

We learned in the eugenics era what happens when we deny people the right of medical refusal. Horrors.

Such a compelling argument. Did Vlad tell you that? Or was it Alex Jones?
Posted 6/19/2019 12:57 PM (GMT 0)

Iamcurious said...
We can have both vaccine safety and protect our little ones with a more judicious use of vaccines.


Ks1905 said...
Healthy people should have vaccines to protect themselves and others from preventable illnesses and infections
They are putting many people at risk and they are doing it without a concern for others; they should be shunned, ostracized, and banned from public places.
As soon as you start making decisions (negligent) that could cause others harm then the government and society should and must step in.


Ipoop said...
Personally I would eliminate all exemptions for vaccines
It's irresponsible not to vaccinate and endagers others

I don't know where or how IAC gets his ridiculous ideas. No wonder his posts were deleted in that earlier thread.

I agree with everyone else that we should make sure that EVERYONE receives the FULL vaccination schedule. And we should especially make sure that ALL newborn babies receive their hepatitis B shots immediately after birth, whether or not their mothers were tested for hepatitis.

After all with all these sexually promiscuous babies running around and infant IV drug users, you can't be too careful. Babies who haven't received their Hep B vaccine hours after birth are a menace to society.

Post Edited (Coffeemate) : 6/19/2019 7:01:42 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/19/2019 1:05 PM (GMT 0)
In the news today. But nothing will convince anti-vaxxers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/meet-the-new-york-couple-donating-millions-to-the-anti-vax-movement/2019/06/18/9d791bcc-8e28-11e9-b08e-cfd89bd36d4e_story.html?utm_term=.28d42f36873a

“Since the publication of Wakefield’s Lancet paper, 21 studies have investigated vaccines and autism. None has found evidence of a link. The latest and largest study published this spring involved 657,461 Danish children born between 1999 and 2010. Experts note the first symptoms of autism often appear when children are about 12 months old — the same age they receive their first MMR shot — leading many parents to blame vaccines. Since the publication of Wakefield’s Lancet paper, 21 studies have investigated vaccines and autism. None has found evidence of a link. The latest and largest study published this spring involved 657,461 Danish children born between 1999 and 2010. Experts note the first symptoms of autism often appear when children are about 12 months old — the same age they receive their first MMR shot — leading many parents to blame vaccines.“
Posted 6/19/2019 1:12 PM (GMT 0)

Coffeemate said...

I agree with everyone else that we should make sure that EVERYONE receives the FULL vaccination schedule. And we should especially make sure that ALL newborn babies receive their hepatitis B shots immediately after birth, whether or not their mothers were tested for hepatitis.

After all with all these sexually promiscuous babies running around and infant IV drug users, you can't be too careful. Babies who haven't received their Hep B vaccine hours after birth are a menace to society.

A safe vaccine, how awful. Just wait until the infant starts breathing the polluted air with small particulate matter.
Posted 6/19/2019 1:26 PM (GMT 0)
Warning on this thread, it too will be locked as well unless things get toned down and return to a debate. If it continues to be an exchange of insults against those who disagree with your own personal opinion then don't be surprised by a lock.

Looks like this thread is no more productive then the last one was. Do not believe anyone is going to change his/her mind due to this discussion. Very opposite opinions with no middle ground to be had. So it is just a exchange of insults back-and-forth.

Cheers!
Posted 6/19/2019 1:38 PM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...
The latest and largest study published this spring involved 657,461 Danish children born between 1999 and 2010.

I had given up posting on this thread because we are just repeating talking points over and over. FYI Ambling brought up that same study and I showed that it was full of holes:
https://www.focusforhealth.org/scientists-rebuttal-to-danish-cohort-study/

Next you are going to bring up a 2nd study, Jain et al., with 95,727 children and an earlier posting showed that this study was also full of holes. There ain't no more. Both the Director of the National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities and the head of the CDC both finally had to admit (after hard questioning of course) that a comprehensive study comparing the overall health of a vaccinated population and an unvaccinated population has never been done in the United States.

All we have are epidemiology studies, the type of “studies” in the 1950's that showed no connection between smoking and cancer during the 1940's and 50's.

This thread is no longer useful and probably should also become locked. All I ask is that this time I hope my postings are not deleted like they were in the last thread that was locked. In the previous thread I went out of my way to remain respectful and show deference to the opinions of others and remain civil despite the constant insults hurled at me, but my posts were deleted anyway.

Post Edited (IamCurious) : 6/19/2019 7:41:38 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/19/2019 1:39 PM (GMT 0)
Hi john understood, I have tried to be civil despite being called a brainwashed sheep and being accused of lying about my credentials (happy to send those in pm if it would really matter). My main bug is people spreading false information. I'm perfectly open to scientific evidence showing vaccines are dangerous. Have not seen any evidence either on this thread or my own investigations. That is where the problem lies. I understand noone participating in the discussion here is going to change their opinions.
Posted 6/19/2019 2:48 PM (GMT 0)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/04/09/measles-update-new-york-city-declares-measles-public-health-emergency/3410324002/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/nyregion/measles-vaccinations-new-york.html
Posted 6/19/2019 3:07 PM (GMT 0)
I seem to see a pattern with the anti-vaxxers, in that no matter what evidence is presented to disprove their points, it is never good enough (oh this has holes in it.. but what about X?). They ask for more and more studies and proof for the shortcomings they perceive in the available information. Yet, I tend to think that no matter how much additional research was done to appease them, the goal post would just be moved forward with more and more to be asked for. It's a great delay and diversion tactic, which I think is the unspoken goal and in the end they would never vaccinate period, as there is a deep distrust of science, doctors, government mandates etc.

Oh and when things are mysteriously deleted, and none of the UC forum mods fess up, that is almost always the site owner, Peter, intervening. He never posts "here is the reason why I deleted things." His site, he does what he wants and doesn't feel the need to explain himself.
Posted 6/19/2019 9:07 PM (GMT 0)

IamCurious said...

FYI Ambling brought up that same study and I showed that it was full of holes:
https://www.focusforhealth.org/scientists-rebuttal-to-danish-cohort-study/

Cool, you posted an antivaxxer website to somehow bolster your credibility. It’s an antivaxxing website that looks nice and has lots of content but it is still an antivaxxing website.

The science is settled, there is no link to vaccines and autism, no credible researcher or scientist would say that there is a link because there is no data to justify it.
Posted 6/19/2019 9:36 PM (GMT 0)
I have a relative with autism. He has to go to a special school (funded by the taxpayer) which is very expensive. It's really not in the financial interests of a country to increase the autistic population. Why would the government support a vaccine that leads to autism? It doesn't make any sense.
Why would the scientists who run the studies repeatedly and deliberately design flawed studies? Every time a paper is published in a reputable journal it has gone through a rigorous peer review. Occasionally bad science can slip through but when different studies reach the same conclusion one can have more confidence in the result.
Posted 6/19/2019 9:53 PM (GMT 0)
I'm not an anti-vaxxer, for the last time. I'm a centrist. When people go extreme either way, I go to center. To people who are extreme, I look like I represent the other side, but I actually don't. People who say vaccines are totally safe are just as bad as people who are saying that vaccines are guaranteed to harm you.

I think people should be fully informed on all the scientifically proven and listed adverse effects of vaccines before they decide to get themselves or their children vaccinated. Everyone has a right to informed consent. What we are seeing pushed by the medical establishment is a downplaying of what could possibly happen, combined with a total lack of culpabiltiy when something *does* happen. The vaccine court in the USA has already paid about $4 billion since the 90's. The court is funded by tax dollars and the payouts are from tax dollars. No corporation ever suffers real consequences when their vaccines harm people because they have legal immunity. It's why the vaccine schedule has exploded to dozens of vaccines since the 90's... they are cheap to make, they don't have the same classification as other drugs and therefore don't undergo the same testing rigours, and the companies who make them are immune to being sued.

Along those lines, I am 100% against forced vaccination. I don't care if it's the best medicine in the world, the right of medical refusal is sacrosanct and an inalienable human right that must be preserved. If you believe that people should be forced against their will by government to undergo a medical intervention then you don't belong in the western world and you should go live in Saudi Arabia or North Korea.
Posted 6/19/2019 11:19 PM (GMT 0)

MarkWithIBD said...
I'm not an anti-vaxxer, for the last time. I'm a centrist. When people go extreme either way, I go to center. To people who are extreme, I look like I represent the other side, but I actually don't. People who say vaccines are totally safe are just as bad as people who are saying that vaccines are guaranteed to harm you.

I think people should be fully informed on all the scientifically proven and listed adverse effects of vaccines before they decide to get themselves or their children vaccinated. Everyone has a right to informed consent. What we are seeing pushed by the medical establishment is a downplaying of what could possibly happen, combined with a total lack of culpabiltiy when something *does* happen. The vaccine court in the USA has already paid about $4 billion since the 90's. The court is funded by tax dollars and the payouts are from tax dollars. No corporation ever suffers real consequences when their vaccines harm people because they have legal immunity. It's why the vaccine schedule has exploded to dozens of vaccines since the 90's... they are cheap to make, they don't have the same classification as other drugs and therefore don't undergo the same testing rigours, and the companies who make them are immune to being sued.

Along those lines, I am 100% against forced vaccination. I don't care if it's the best medicine in the world, the right of medical refusal is sacrosanct and an inalienable human right that must be preserved. If you believe that people should be forced against their will by government to undergo a medical intervention then you don't belong in the western world and you should go live in Saudi Arabia or North Korea.

Merriam Webster says that you are an anti-vaxxer.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer

Definition of anti-vaxxer
: a person who opposes vaccination or laws that mandate vaccination
Posted 6/19/2019 11:34 PM (GMT 0)
Wow... I just wrote all that, and that's your reply? Talk about intellectually lazy, not to mention trolling.
Posted 6/19/2019 11:56 PM (GMT 0)

MarkWithIBD said...
Wow... I just wrote all that, and that's your reply? Talk about intellectually lazy, not to mention trolling.

Why should I debate someone who doesn’t want to accept the definitions and facts around the accepted science and terminology? You’re just making stuff up. You are an anti-vaxxer.

Just because you say that you’re not an antivaxxer doesn’t make it so. Accepting what you said would be intellectually lazy; the facts don’t support what you said.
Posted 6/20/2019 1:08 AM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...
Why should I debate someone who doesn’t want to accept the definitions and facts around the accepted science and terminology? You’re just making stuff up. You are an anti-vaxxer.

Just because you say that you’re not an antivaxxer doesn’t make it so. Accepting what you said would be intellectually lazy; the facts don’t support what you said.

You just want to be right. You don't care about an actual discussion. It's obvious.

You're also a troll because you keep attacking me personally.

Welcome to my ignore list!
Posted 6/20/2019 1:18 AM (GMT 0)
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