HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Fecal Bacteriotherapy

Support Forums
>
Ulcerative Colitis
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 8/15/2007 3:33 PM (GMT 0)
 

Just curious if anyone has heard of anyone ever trying this?  Who knows?  It could work.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12811208

 

Posted 8/15/2007 3:37 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah, it's been discussed before and for me personally I would have to pass on that therapy!
Posted 8/15/2007 3:59 PM (GMT 0)
It doesn't seem that the ones who have tried it have been free of symptoms.

How about trying probiotics...of course there are many kinds,but worth the effort to invest researching!

quincy
Posted 8/15/2007 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
I wouldn't pass on anything if it worked. Who cares if it is considered gross? Living with UC on a daily basis is gross.
Posted 8/15/2007 5:19 PM (GMT 0)
Read page 3 of http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/toyingmotions.pdf.
Posted 8/15/2007 6:24 PM (GMT 0)
Delarge,
Overall results look promising. What did you make of those results?
Posted 8/15/2007 6:46 PM (GMT 0)
KJ35, I've long held the belief that ulcerative colitis most often results from an insidious microbial infection of some form. The patient outcomes listed within the above compilation certainly compliment theories suggesting such. I find it mind-boggling that very few acknowledge the possibility that the unique immune-system traits of those with IBD may have arisen AFTER the fact.

Here's an interesting blurb from www.probiotictherapy.com.au (Centre for Digestive Diseases).

"The treatment of colitis has been generally standardised throughout the world and usually requires anti-inflammatory drugs such as corticosteroids (eg. prednisone), 5-aminosalicylic acid (5-ASA) compounds (eg. sulfasalazine, olsalazine, mesalazine), azathioprine, 6-mercaptopurine, cyclosporin, and antibiotics such as metronidazole, ciprofloxacin and vancomycin. Most of these agents, except for prednisone, also have anti-microbial actions, which points to the fact that colitis is almost certainly a chronic infection with a hitherto undescribed pathogen or pathogens. Among theories on causation of colitis it is generally thought that a passing bowel infection initiates an ongoing autoimmune response. The basis for this is - in part - the observation that we cannot find a pathogenic organism that causes colitis, and that it appears to respond to immunity-modifying drugs. Yet colitis may also follow an acute bowel infection-like episode. Other chronic infections such as Helicobacter pylori, hepatitis B or C, bronchiectasis, or fungal infections of the skin do not set up an ongoing 'autoimmune' condition. Hence, from the observation of other infections in the body it is highly unlikely that colitis is anything more than a chronic infection causing chronic inflammation and the infection has simply not been found. A similar situation has been operating in Crohn's disease where an immune reaction to an unknown pathogen has been invoked as the mechanism. It is now unlikely that this is the mechanism operating but rather that Mycobacterium avium ssp. paratuberculosis (Map) is the ongoing infection that starts up and maintains the inflammation. ( www.crohns.org )"
Posted 8/15/2007 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
"In 1994, Dr. Michael L. McCann and colleagues published a paper entitled, "Recolonization Therapy with Nonadhesive Escherichia coli for Treatment of Inflammatory Bowel Disease," in the Journal of the New York Academy of Sciences. This work reported on a process called "reflorastation" and a three-year study that focused on normalizing the bowel bacteria using L. acidophilus (DDS-1 strain), B. bifidum (Malyoth strain), and benign E. coli bacteria (Nissel 1917 strain). Remember, E. coli is a common bowel bacteria that we all carry. With the exception of the lethal H:0157 strain, which contaminates the food chain, most strains of E. coli are harmless. Because they are normal bowel residents they can even be considered beneficial.

Dr. McCann’s study involved patients who suffered from an inflammatory bowel disease, either Crohn’s disease or ulcerative colitis. His reflorastation protocol began with the use of heavy-duty antibiotics and antifungals to completely rid the body of all bacteria—the good as well as the bad. Once the intestines had been thoroughly denuded, the normal bacteria were reintroduced, both orally and via retention enemas. As a result, each patient so treated went into remission, and those who continued with the bacterial supplementation remain disease-free at the time of this writing."
Posted 8/15/2007 7:02 PM (GMT 0)
Maybe someone within this forum will have some firsthand experience with this procedure. If I knew I would see the results as listed here.....

http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/toyingmotions.pdf

I would hop on the first flight to Sydney. I always wanted to visit Australia anyway.

http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au/physicians/what_is_hpi.html
Posted 8/15/2007 7:11 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks to a few Scots, we should soon know which antibiotics are most effective in addressing ulcerative colitis.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00355602?order=32

"Purpose:

Ulcerative colitis (UC) is an acute and chronic inflammatory bowel disease, whose cause is unknown. However, it is widely accepted that bacteria living in the large bowel are essential for the development of the disease. Intuitively, therefore, a logical approach to treatment would be to use antibiotics. Howevere, antimicrobial chemotherapy has been unsuccessful in managing acute colitis, and has had only limited benefit in long-term treatment. The failure of antibiotics in UC arises from the fact that no-one has tried to identify which bacteria are involved in causing disease, and equally importantly, nobody has targeted appropriate antibiotics to knock out the specific bacteria in question, in a systematic way. Despite this, increasing evidence implicates bacteria living on the lining of the bowel being involved in UC. Our aim, therefore is to identify bacteria colonising the mucosal surface in the lower large intestine and to determine the antibiotic sensitivities of those we believe to be particularly involved in the disease, such as enterococcit, peptostreptococci and enterobacteria. Because we have already studied resistance to antimicrobial in many mucosal isolate, we plan to focus on using a combination of two antibiotics in this work. A controlled trial will test the benefit of using these antibiotics over a period of one month and then the patients will be followed up over a six month period. We will be looking for significant long-term improvements, and a reduction in drug use following antibiotic therapy."
Posted 8/16/2007 12:54 AM (GMT 0)
w/o grossing people out, i would go one step further and EAT the poop if it promised to cure me.... seriously the only thing i probably wouldn't do is go gay, but outside of that, ANYTHING!
Posted 8/16/2007 2:39 AM (GMT 0)
Yeah, I read the Borody, et all study a while back and I wonder why more isn't being done to test this. It sounds like all of the people participating in that fecalbacteriotherapy were cured from what the study said. I would do this if it was going to cure me. The people in the study got to pick who they were getting the poop from, too, which would make me feel a little better. I don't know if I would want some random person's feces inside me...ewww.
Posted 8/16/2007 5:27 AM (GMT 0)

quincy said...
It doesn't seem that the ones who have tried it have been free of symptoms.

Actually, there is a clinic that does it in Australia that gets great results. There's also a guy who lives in california who had his doctor preform this for him, his friend was a donor. He's symptom free and never went on any sort of diet. He got a colonoscopy and was clean.
Posted 8/16/2007 5:33 AM (GMT 0)
Eric...you mean from this site? hope he/they come back to fill in those who are interested. I know a few were having it done...who...couldn't tell you...but I'm not remembering too many accolades about it, just a lot of talk about wanting to try it.

q
Posted 8/16/2007 5:55 AM (GMT 0)
He posted on another forum.

It's a really long post, he did many things (supplements and LDN - Low Dose Naltrexone) but he belives the bacteriotherapy is what jump started it all.

http://www.ovamed.org/phpforum/viewtopic.php?t=608
Posted 8/16/2007 6:45 AM (GMT 0)
Ah, so it wasn't ONLY the bacteriotherapy then.

Is there not a more recent date than Dec/2006?
q

Posted 8/16/2007 2:47 PM (GMT 0)
There are studies with very positive results. I am surprised that this is not more widely discussed and known about. As for the gross factor; when you think about it who really cares. I think just about anyone would get over any hangups about this procedure if they knew this would send them into a long term remission or possible cure.
Posted 8/16/2007 10:08 PM (GMT 0)
There are many who have tried this, and some have indeed been symptom free since, but not all. One course of infusions may not be enough. However, even those who haven't seen their symptoms disappear completely have had great results in terms of fewer bm's per day, less urgency, getting off steroid therapy, and so on. It's a very exciting alternative treatment, and should definitely be high on the list for those who find their lives controlled more and more by UC. Btw, there's a google newsgroup on the topic, check it out: http://groups.google.com/group/hpit
Posted 8/16/2007 10:26 PM (GMT 0)

DocGonzo said...
There are many who have tried this, and some have indeed been symptom free since, but not all. One course of infusions may not be enough. However, even those who haven't seen their symptoms disappear completely have had great results in terms of fewer bm's per day, less urgency, getting off steroid therapy, and so on. It's a very exciting alternative treatment, and should definitely be high on the list for those who find their lives controlled more and more by UC. Btw, there's a google newsgroup on the topic, check it out: http://groups.google.com/group/hpit

Excellent link, thanks.
Posted 8/16/2007 11:48 PM (GMT 0)

BillShakespeare said...

Delarge said...
KJ35, I've long held the belief that ulcerative colitis most often results from an insidious microbial infection of some form.

That's what I think, too. I wish there were more research in this area.

Theories of microbial involvement seem to receiving increased attention these days, not to mention research in that realm is gaining momentum.
Posted 8/18/2007 1:49 AM (GMT 0)
This is exciting news, in my opinion. Much better than taking pills or getting Remicade infusions. I remember reading about a lady who used a baby's stool and claimed to be UC-free. Didn't know whether to believe it or not...
I'd do it in a minute. Will ask doctor at Cleveland Clinic about it when I go for a consultation Tues.!
Posted 8/18/2007 2:34 AM (GMT 0)
the results on FB are *VERY* promising... the problem is that it does not control for the variables. Borody's clinic in Australia, that pioneered this treatment, has people do an EXTENSIVE antibiotic regimin first, THEN do the FB infusion. Is it the recolonization, the antibiotics, or, as Researcher suggested, the lipids in the FB forming a protective barrier which, now cleansed of pathogenic bacteria through the antibiotic protocol, induces remission.

I'd do it. I do gross things every single day b/c of this illness. This is just one more indignity, but at least it might have the promise of a better tomorrow. Too bad it will probably never get research funding-- let's hope the Aussies put more energy into standardizing the protocol and publishing results.
Posted 2/19/2008 5:09 AM (GMT 0)
So has anyone in this message thread actually done it since?

I am going to try to call the clinic in Sydney. I am also trying to find Doctors here in NY, or the surrounding states, that oversee the procedure.

Really the only roadblocks are prescriptions for prednisone, the antibiotics, and the stool tests for the donors...
Posted 2/19/2008 7:50 PM (GMT 0)

I have always, always said there is more to this than just the immune response, body attacking thing. Also the correlation that several have noticed when there was food poisoning that UC or a flare came up shortly thereafter. Also, I have just started the organic apple cider vinegar and buckwheat honey therapy and the main reason for that is if you believe there's fungal involvement. I had a couple days with normal bm's but some tissue with a little blood, almost like it was purging out the junk. Don't know but I'm feeling good and will keep it up. Looking forward to updates on this therapy - hope we can find someone on the East coast even though AU is a great place to visit - would rather go back UC free!!

Diagnosed with LS UC 1984, suffered for 16 years, high doses Pred and eased off to Azulfidine; remission for 9 years, just flared recently. Asacol 3, 3x day; 20 ml. Pred.. Heading into remission again with addition of: prayer, deep breathing, walks on the beach and: 4-1000 mg.garlic twice daily; 2 zyflamend twice daily, SuperFoods RX multi-whole food vita twice daily, SuperFoods RX Omega 3; 3 Asacol 3 x day with 3 Vitamin Shoppe Ultimate 10 Probiotic; Metamucil morning and night - no dairy, hardly any coffee (Just added Hevla decaf), lots of water and green tea. Was using L-Glutamine but read that it can aggravate? Recently added: 1 scoop Greensplus Chia seeds and the vinegar and honey regimen.

Posted 9/8/2008 11:14 PM (GMT 0)
So has anyone tried Fecal Bacteriotherapy?
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12