Vegan cure?

SMfromCA said:
My guess is that when you eliminated all this food from your diet, somewhere there you eliminated what was causing the problem. It is great that your symptoms are gone and you have got your health back. If I try this diet, after reaching your state of recovery, what I would do next is gradually start trying one food item at a time and bring back the food that is not causing any problem to me.

I agree.

if we are not meant to eat meat, why did we evolve with canine teeth, specifically for tearing meat? Why did our ancestors start eating meat in the first place?
I don't dispute that the hormones and chemicals in the food are bad for us, they are. And cooking meat and foods might take some of the nutrients out of it. But ecoli and salmonella are bad for you too. And you can get those from fruits and veggies too. take a look back at the spinach problem for a few years ago.
If someone wants to be vegan, then more power to them, but i think people also need to look at the things that takes away from the diet, where does the calcium come from? women need a lot of calcium as they grow older. You can look at diets all over the world and compare the health of the people in those countries to the health of the people in our own country. But it's not just the diet thats making the difference. It's the air quality and the water quality, and the amount of exercise, lots of different things play into that.
What do vegans drink? I'm not saying that to cause trouble, I'm just curious. i know that part of the reason is to get rid of the chemicals, but if you are drinking bottled waters or city water you are getting lots of chemicals and bad stuff that way. I drink my well water, but i can look at the back of my water bottle and it has all kinds of stuff added, that can't be good for you either.
Maybe a vegan diet cures someone, when i had UC, I couldn't handle fruits and veggies at all. A salad would have me in the bathroom for hours! Pizza, caused no problems. For some people it may be the opposite.
The thing that bothers me most about all the diet modification is that people are giving up so many foods they like, and depriving themselves of that. Maybe it's not good for you, but sitting there, wishing you could have that piece of cake the person across from you is enjoying is not good for you either, its hard emotionally. It's like when you start a diet to lose weight, if you cut out all the things you like right away, all you will do is crave them more, and then when you lose the weight you want to, you will just go right back to them. That puts your system all out whack too.
bottom line, the only cure is surgery, some people might get remission from a diet, and thats great, some people might get it from a med, but the only way to get rid of UC is to get rid of the colon.

I think that for some people becoming a vegan can be a cure; however, we are all different. This is one of the reasons doctors can not advise us as to what we should and should not eat. What foods bother me, might not bother you and vica versa.

However, I don't believe a raw diet is better than a cooked diet. There is a lot of hype out there right now to convince people to choose one diet over another.

As for cooked foods, in many proteins (unlike egg whites), denaturation is reversible. The proteins can regain their native state when the denaturing influence is removed.

I always drink the juice from cooked vegetables so that I get the vitamins and minerals.

I can't eat many fruits due to being fructose intolerant. This means that many raw foods are unavailable for me.

I find some vegetables--such as broccoli- to be harder to digest when they are eaten raw.

One concern I have about being a vegetarian is that I am slightly anemic. While vegetables such as spinach contain iron, the iron is not easy absorbed. I eat a lot of spinach, yet I'm still anemic.

At the moment, I'm a pescetarianism, which means I'm still eating fish and eggs.

BTW, I just got my hair tested. I think this is something we all should do. Anyway, my aluminum level is very high. It's off the charts.

What does having "canine" teeth prove to you? That we are carnivores? Omnivores? If that is the case, please walk up to a live cow and bite into it. Kill it with your ferocious canines! Eat its raw flesh. Carnivores enjoy raw meat. Enjoy. Carnivorous animals also: have claws, have tails, have short digestive tracts, sweat from tongues, have multiple teats on their abdomen, do not see in color, have no lateral movement in their jaws and the list goes on and on. Do you poses these carnivorous traits?

You are suggesting that things are being taken away when one goes on a vegan diet, specifically calcium. Green leafy veggies have calcium. A banana has calcium. An orange has calcium. So on and so forth. Are you suggesting meat and dairy eaters don't get calcium deficiency? As I have said before, meat and dairy consumption create an acidic metabolic reaction. Once that happens, calcium phosphate is leeched from your bones and the phosphate is used to neutralize that acidity in your blood while the calcium is excreted.

Water purity is certainly important. The cleanest water you can drink doesn't come from a tap, well or spring. Fruit is a great source of pure water. The water has been filtered by billion of live cells. Sounds much better than a BRITA water filter if you ask me. ;)

It's unfortunate that you view cutting out foods that are harming you as deprivation. I don't feel deprived one bit. I actually feel it's you that are depriving yourself of astounding health, vitality and energy you will feel once you turn to a low fat raw vegan diet. How can one be deprived when there are literally thousands of different kinds of fruit? Perhaps deprivation when it comes to all these tasteful foods you are so hesitant to give up is a good thing. A smoker when quitting smoking surely feels deprived of their nicotine fix. They feel deprived of the feel, taste, smell etc. They also feel deprived of the social aspect, i.e. smoking with friends, lovers and family. Once they give up this habit, addiction, whatever you want to call it, they regain health and many don't feel they are deprived of those things they once felt they would be deprived of if they gave up smoking. I give that analogy to say that I don't feel deprived whatsoever.

If meat/dairy eaters are getting so much health and vitality from their diet then why are so many people in this country deficient in so many vitamins and minerals? This is after all one of the the biggest meat and dairy eating nations in the history of mankind. Where are all the vegans on cholesterol medication? Where are all the vegans dropping like flies from their oh so nutrient devoid diets? Instead, we see, the most obese nation to ever exist in the history of humanity. Are these folks getting so fat from their ravenous consumption of fruits? Are they getting high cholesterol, blood pressure, diabetes, cancers (especially colon, ovarian and prostate cancers), impotence etc.? Many studies show that vegans live a qualitatively healthier and longer life then those who consume meats, dairy and processed foods. Many studies have also shown that vegans utilize vitamins and minerals more efficiently.

Summerstorm, I see that you removed your colon. I understand that must have been an extremely emotional and hard decision, but stating that removing your colon is the only permanent solution is, as the british would say, poppycock. If I were to make a wild guess, I would say many more people have been living a life free of the "remission and flare" cycle through dietary solutions than those who opted to take the extremely drastic step of removing their colons. I respect the choice you made and I'm glad you are feeling better. To say "bottom line" that removing your colon is the only "cure" though I believe is as crazy for me to say ONLY low fat raw vegan will cure you. I make no assertions. I suggest this diet as an option to people. An option I believe will help many people if they properly implement it. I don't dismiss other peoples dietary choices if they used it to achieve remission or "cure" themselves. More power to them.

follyism, it is fantastic that your symptoms have disappeared and you're off meds. I had this happen after my initial diagnosis in early 2006. After about 6-7 months I was symptom free and started "forgetting" to take the prescribed amount of Asacol as I stopped feeling like I needed it. My doctor then told me I was better and no longer needed to take my meds, much like yours.

I, however, made no diet adjustments or changes in my lifestyle. If anything I was excited to be able to eat again without having to rush to the bathroom for unsatisfactory, sometimes bloody/mucousy, occasionally painful stools. I was also excited to be able to drink again. So I did. And everything was fine for about four years.

I then had a flareup, which I posted about here back in late June/early July of '10. After jumping through hoops for Asacol along with a bevvy of other drugs that I may or may not have needed, I was determined to keep my remission going as long as I possibly could have. I noticed that my body was rejecting all dairy products, so I'm eating as if I suffer from extreme lactose intolerance (which, realistically speaking, I do). I also exercise every day now, make sure to take daily vitamins and probiotics and cut out fried, fatty foods which I've replaced with low-fat white meat and vegetables, along with the occasional fruit. I still snack on whatever I want (minus cheese) and drink whatever I want (minus milk). I am not 100% like I was after my first flareup, but I am doing much better. My meals are typically the following:

Breakfast: Granola, 4-6 cups of water, dry toast (only on days when I run, which is every other day).
Lunch: Turkey/Chicken cold cuts on White/Wheat bread with a small lathering of Omega-3 enriched mayo. Bottle of water.
Dinner: Artisan bread that I dip into olive oil along with something involving white meat and at least 2-3 vegetables. Usually treat myself to a cup of Diet Pepsi and then move to an anti-oxidant juice like Cranberry/Grape/V8 Splash. Then water for the rest of the night.

It was difficult at first for me to adjust my diet so drastically, but now I've gotten used to it and will probably stick with it indefinitely, if not adding some tweaks and improvements here and there. It sounds like you did something similar, but much more extreme and it has worked well for you. I'm glad to hear that.

The problem that I've run into as a result of my dietary changes is that it becomes increasingly difficult for me to go out to eat, especially when I have my girlfriend or friend(s) lobbying for a particular cuisine. I usually make a suggestion for something that I'm able to eat that I think may be agreeable or coalesce and either go out and eat whatever limited menu options are there for me or politely decline. This is where I think you're missing a lot of the points being made herein.

I do not think my friends/family/people I don't know are "addicted" to the foods that they eat. I think they find food that they enjoy and it doesn't affect them like it may you or me, so they keep eating what makes them happy. It may not be the best idea health-wise, but they're not feeling its effects (whether that is always the case is irrelevant) so they keep eating what tastes good to them. I wish that I could still do this. I love pizza, I love cheese, I love butter. I have had to sacrifice these foods because my health is important to me after having experienced what it's like when it's less than ideal.

If you feel like eating 20 bananas every morning and an entire watermelon for lunch is the way you're comfortable living your life every day until you die, I encourage you to continue. It is, of course, a very healthy lifestyle and you seem to understand the nutrition to the point of being able to consume of the necessary daily food intake. The problem with eating that way, for me personally (and I assume some of the people who have voiced disagreement) is that I would get nauseous after eating one, maybe two bananas and could never see fit to get through more than a couple of slices of watermelon, let alone the entire giant fruit. I also don't know anybody who eats these things for meals, so I would completely isolate myself from a big part of American culture and socialization, which is going out to eat. I feel my lactose intolerant restrictions have held me back from enjoying so many different cuisines that I've loved in the past and/or have been interested in trying.

I define "addiction" as something that becomes painful when you let go of it. This is typically something that you experience when withdrawing from a drug or something your body has become reliant upon. I do not think this applies to food. People eat what makes them happy. If your massive fruit diet makes you happy and keeps you feeling healthy I encourage you to continue. Others derive the same amount of joy from eating what they like, which culturally tends to mean cooked foods/meats.

Is it possible that I become symptom free if I adhere to your dietary restrictions? Sure. Do I want to live a life where I'm buying hundreds of bananas a week, even if it means I'll feel 100% again? Nope, it's not a "challenge" I'm interested in pursuing. I'd rather feel 75% like I do now and eat more of what I enjoy than base my entire diet around something outlandish like 40 fruits per day. But you wouldn't, so keep it going.

I find it very bewildering that the social aspect of eating for some users is so important that they would rather continue to suffer than adopt or try this way of eating. If eating out with friends and family is more important then possibly completely abolishing all symptoms of ulcerative colitis then I don't know how to reason with that way of thinking.

I hardly ever go out to eat with friends or family. Believe it or not, there is a life beyond using food as a mode of socialization. Why make the social aspect of eating such a pivotal point in your life. You can easily make some other social activity, to be shared with friends and family alike as an important social activity replacing communal food consumption. You can also find like-minded individuals who eat a similar diet as yourself to dine with. You can also just bring your fruit with you at a social function, or just have a salad. Pretty simple and practical solutions.


I've gotten responses that some would rather cut out their colon and continuing eating their unhealthy food before they would even consider doing something like eating a purely fruit and tender green based diet. To some, my diet sounds insane. I'm cognizant of that. To me, the rationalization of I would rather cut out my colon or be 25% sick instead of adopting a simple fruit eating diet is insanity! I never want to nor will I ever go back to the days of spending all day on the toilet defecating blood and mucus all day. I will not choose to accept that I need to be on drugs for the rest of my life. I will not choose suffering for the taste of a glass of beer or a slice of cake. May I be so daft as to say "so what" if regaining total health leads to some social isolation around the issue of food. It's absolutely bonkers that some of you if put in the position of eating a diet similar to mine or choosing to continue suffering with the torturous effects of this disease, would choose the latter. I can't grapple with that logic.

I find it awfully peculiar that many of the people who take issue with my use of the word "addiction" when related to certain foods often respond in the like that they love this or that food and will never give it up. Really? Is that not the logic used with people addicted to so many of the many things that people are addicted to. That line of reasoning is used with coffee, smoking, drugs and even with extremely obese people who show outward signs of significant health problems due to their "food addictions." Why is food only an addiction when someone shows outwards signs of health problems, i.e. obesity. Why is it so audacious to some to argue that much of our learned eating habits are actually addictive and harmful even if there are no immediate outwardly signs of a problem?

There are plenty of people that argue the "scientific" reasons behind why certain foods are addictive and the properties that make them addictive. To those that are interested, look up "Casomorphin." Wikipedia defines Casomorphin as " peptides, i.e., protein fragments, derived from the digestion of milk protein. The distinguishing characteristic of casomorphins is that they have an opioid effect." Also, grab a copy of the book called "Grain damage" which argues the addictive and destructive nature of incorporating grains into our diet.

Post Edited (follyism) : 2/20/2011 6:51:55 PM (GMT-7)

Hey follyism, I had posted this on the 30 bananas thread, but it was closed, so i'm just going to repost it here :

I have done a lot of research recently about diets for ulcerative colitis, and i have discovered david klein self healing colitis and crohn , wich led me to the 80/10/10 diet. I am really interested in those diets, altough i find there is a lot of different informations. Also spoke with paul nison who does'nt recommend a high fruit diet. But I do read so many testimonials of people who have healed with a fruit based diet. So i guess i'll just have to try and see for myself. I did try david klein's diet, and it did help, but it was hard and i cheated a few times, and ended up having to go back to meds... But i still really want to do it, and truly beleive it is right for me... I am just curious, what diet did you follow at first, did you improve really fast?

Thank you

follyism said...
 A smoker when quitting smoking surely feels deprived of their nicotine fix. They feel deprived of the feel, taste, smell etc. They also feel deprived of the social aspect, i.e. smoking with friends, lovers and family. Once they give up this habit, addiction, whatever you want to call it, they regain health and many don't feel they are deprived of those things they once felt they would be deprived of if they gave up smoking. I give that analogy to say that I don't feel deprived whatsoever.

 

I can't believe you're comparing addiction to nicotine to eating a balanced diet.

I attempted to follow the diet I believe the OP is describing. I bought the book and read it multiple times though I'm a bit of a skeptic by nature and didn't "drink the kool-aid" necessarily. Still, I figured all I would really be out was some time spent eating less healthy, right? So I followed the diet strictly for about a month. Unfortunately I don't typically eat a lot of fruit or veggies so I think I did a pretty bad job at making sure I was in fact eating "enough" and ended up starving myself to a degree...

Anyway, I was pretty positive about the whole thing at first. I felt great - I'm sure my body was happy to be rid of all of the unhealthy crap I normally eat. Somewhere around week 3, however, I started flaring up pretty bad again which was seriously discouraging. It was hard enough to stick to such a strict, limited, and unusual (for me) diet, but to be seeing it so obviously NOT WORKING was like being kicked while I was already down. I held out for one more week before I gave in.

Of course I still wonder if I would have held out longer if it might have done more for me, but for now I'm chalking it up to being another diet that didn't help. I may revisit it later in some future moment of desperation. I haven't had a darn banana since... though every now and then I still crave one of the smoothies I used to make. ;) The worse part about this one failing is that it pretty much took out ALL of the other food types that people usually suggest exempting to help with UC which makes it seem doubtful to me that I'll ever be lucky enough to find any sort of dietary "cure" for my Colitis. :(

follyism

I want to know what you think about my attempt with the raw food diet. i was doing it for about 8 months i did have touble in the begining and found it hard to ajust. i did the mono eating thing. the thing i liked about the fruit diet is that i felt an inter peace. if i eat meat i dont have that but i also felt like i was really light like i was going to float away or something on the high fruit.

i never got rid of the bleeding wheather i mono eat or not. i remember i ate 20 peaches for dinner once and had really bad stomach cramps from it. banans actaully were really great for forming poos but never got rid of my bleeding. i only got rid of it by stopping the surgar. Just like paul nison said.

i did have troubles with that diet i must admit. my blood sugar felt like it was going through the roof at times. Also my teeth have been cold sensitive since doing the diet.

there were some good things i experienced but the bloody poos just ment it was not working.


I have cheated on my candida diet with some melon and guess what happed blood the next day.

I think that nison is right. there is some other posts on there about others having troubles with the fruit. I went on givittomeraw i found another girl who was getting wrose on the fruit diet.

Any way i would like your opinion on my experiences

Hey Hello kitty
I am curious too to have more details about what plan you followed, because i want to switch to a vegan diet, but i still can't decide if i should eat all that fruit!! i also know for sure that i have candida issues. I am just wondering if you followed david klein's plan? Because maybe it would have helped you better than 80-10-10 while you were still bleeding. the first time i followed his plan i got rid of the bleeding in one day, but everyone is different of course..

Gavriel, please stop with the mud slinging. In another post, you've called for me to be banned. I don't claim to know everything. I give my opinion based on scientific data, logic and reasoning. If you disagree with things I have said then please pin point those things and present your facts and rationale behind that argument. Throughout this post I have constantly given reference to articles, data, resources and facts. I can go to plenty of peoples posts on here and simply say this is absolutely "non-sensical." Have I done that? No. When I respond to a post I give my opinion, yes, but I also back it up. Please back up your opinion or stop coming here to bash. As I have been accused of by one other user of having an "agenda" it makes me think, what's your agenda? To silence those you disagree with? Please don't make this thread into a hostile environment as many of us are having a very interesting discussion on this topic.

Hi Gavriel, I mean no disrespect as I ask you this question: Have you even read all of the posts in this thread? It appears you have not. If you did, you would realize I have been off medication for the first time in over 4 years thanks to this diet. Countless others have done the same.

If you are so concerned about how ridiculous the very notion that this diet can heal inflammatory bowel disease then state your proof my dear Gavriel. You prove nothing by saying this is an absurd and unworthy topic to tackle. There are many scientists that are investigating the role that diet plays in ulcerative colitis, is what they are doing absurd and unworthy? How about the scientists investigating the role of bacteria in the gut in relation to ulcerative colitis? Boy, they must be crackpot 9-11 was an inside job conspiracy nuts.

Outside of your mud slinging in this thread, almost all your posts you are aggressively pushing Remicade as the only real solution for UC "patients." By the way, why are you calling us patients? Are you a doctor? Most people here don't call each other patients. You also said "I am sympathetic to your condition." Strange wording again. I don't doubt you have UC. If you say you have it, I take your word for it. I am highly suspicious of your Remicade is the only "safe solution" posts and how you refer to us as patients. Don't take this the wrong way but I have to ask; do you work for Centocor? Why is Remicade the only safe solution? Why not Humira? Why is everything else dangerous or non-sensical if it is not Remicade?

Also, again, I don't think it's too much to ask that you actually read all the posts in this thread before responding. Please read the posts and point out what you disagree with. If you don't think this topic is worth a serious rebuttal then I don't think it is rude of me to ask you to stop replying here and reply to threads that you believe deserve a serious rebuttal. All the best to you.

Post Edited (follyism) : 2/21/2011 2:31:54 PM (GMT-7)