The Big Raw Milk Debate

This is a great topic.  My family, including my daughter who has Crohn's, have been drinking raw milk

for the past month.  We buy it at our local co-op which is a great source of locally grown organic food.

I have been reading so many nutrition books lately and if you are interested in finding out more about

raw milk I highly recommend the book Nourishing Traditions - The Cookbook that Challenges Politically

Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats by Sally Fallon. If you can't find a good source of quality

raw milk, she recommends using pasturized, non-homogenized milk to which you add a piima culture

that will add the enzymes and nutrients that are destroyed by pasteurization. I just couldn't find any

milk that was non-homogenized. She gives you resources for the piima culture but I would think that

you could google it and find a source or I can give you the one what she recommends.

This book is a treasure trove of information and recipes. I can't even begin to do it justice. Another

interesting  book is Deep Nutrition by Catherine Shanahan. Both books are based on the work by Weston

Price, a dentist in the 30's who traveled around the world studying the diets and nutrition of various

cultures. In fact there is a lot of information about raw milk at the web site  http://www.westonaprice.org/

What pushed me into finally trying raw milk is a local gi doctor. We have been searching for a compatible

gastroenterologist for about a year. My daughter finally got an appointment to see local gi. She is

feeling ok but felt she needed something to get over the urgency issues that still plague her. She

has tried various medications without much help except for Rowasa.  Anyway, he took quite a

detailed history and told her he would prescribe any medication that she wanted to try but his

opinion is that there is not any medication that is all that effective for treating IBD. He said he has

really been studying the issue lately and is of the opinion that diet is the most important factor in

treating IBD. I couldn't believe it when she told me what he had said because every other gi doctor

she had been  to told her that diet had no effect. Anyway he described a diet that he and his family

were following that sounded a lot like the Maker's diet and he said he was trying to find a source of

good quality raw milk. That was all I needed to hear to decide to give it a try. This doctor went to

medical school in Ireland and I wonder if that might be why he seems to be more open-minded about

diet. In fact, he told her that he feels the treatment that the naturopath has prescribed for her

is great; he said to keep with it.

 

No other species drinks milk after weaning (or the milk from another species). raw or pasteurized, no matter to me. Milk's not good for people. Raw milk likely presents even more danger than pastuerized.

Like there are no "vitamins and such" in goat's milk???? I'm just saying its way more digestible to humans then cow's milk is.

Sarah- We are also the only species to use computers, build fires, drink alcohol, and about a billion other things. Go ahead and abandon it all if you want to follow that logic.

Sigh.

I tried some raw goat's milk for the first time a few days before ended up in the hospital for c diff. at first, I thought I got c diff from the goat's milk but the doctors said it was from humira. either way, I am not trying raw milk again. I think there is too much risk involved, especially if my immune system is a piece of crap already.

It would be cool to try human breast milk though. I'd much prefer drinking that instead of another species milk. Since eating animal products again, I don't see a reason to exclude any part of the animal from my diet. Might as well utilize everything.

haha thanks any fruitgirl.

I was watching an episode of the kardashians a few weeks ago and Kim was stealing Courtney's milk bottles in the fridge because it helps her psoriasis. I was like- yes!! i'm not the only one who would do this.

I have heard of people drinking breast milk. As far as I know, it's safe.

Personally, I prefer my offspring to have the milk.

Onto the main topic, I'll stay away from milk for the rest of my life. You can argue all you want, but I don't see why someone would risk drinking unpasteurized milk. But that's my opinion. Hey, if you want to do it, go ahead. I really don't care.

Since you bumped the thread it will post my opinion.

Two words. Listeria monocytogenes.

It is a very dangerous bacteria for those who are immunosupressed in this case it inckudes the very young and very old. The mortality rate is very high ( about one in four healthy people who get listeria infection will die) The reason they tell pregnant people to avoid raw dairy products is because it will most likely kill the fetus if there is listeria monocytogenes in the product.

As for pasteurization, it was not implemented to extend shelf life. It was implemented because they recognized that there were agents of disease in the milk and heating it could destroy it.
There are two basic methods one involves heating at a lower temperature for a slightly lower time and one involves heating at a higher temperature for a shorter time.
They need to reduce the microbial count so that there is not enough in the milk to make people sick.
They do it in a way that they do not "cook" the milk and denature all of the proteins.
When boiling ( like before I make yogurt) that will cook it.
As you can see I feel very strongly about it and believe it can be very dangerous to consume and irresponsible to give to your little children.
There is no good research that indicates the benefits of raw milk outweigh the risks of some serious illnesses that can occur.

I've read that drinking raw goat milk helps some ibd patients in forums. Goat milk has different type of casein (A2 casein only) than cows milk (A1 casein, also has beta-casomorphin 7 which goat milk doesn't contain. BCM-7 has negative effects on intestines and nervous system.) For more info, look for the A1/A2 casein hypothesis.

Milk proteins and human health: A1/A2 milk hypothesis
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475924/

Raw goat milk, with a lactase tablet is drinkable without digestive problems but I'm highly concerned about pathogens. Raw milk is always more nutritious than pasteurized milk because pasteurization process reducess whey, vitamins, enzymes, amino acids in the milk...

I don't care about possible effects on diabetes or heart disease. Infants and people with leaky gut (like us) absorb beta-casomorphin 7. It's effects on nervous system concerns me most, and its inflammatory effects. It acts as an opioid receptor agonist and negatively effects nervous system functions, creates addiction and even linked to autism and schizophrenia... People with autism and schizophrenia have too high levels of urine BCM-7 levels if they regularly consume cow's milk. This may be due to people with autism and schizophrenia have also leaky gut.

As for A1 casein and gut inflammation, look at this website:
/keithwoodford.wordpress.com/2014/01/06/a1-beta-casein-gut-inflammation-and-immune-reactions/
The study: Comparative evaluation of cow β-casein variants (A1/A2) consumption on Th2-mediated inflammatory response in mouse gut.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24166511

Post Edited (xy123) : 9/10/2015 7:34:59 AM (GMT-6)

I've been drinking raw goat milk cultured with kefir now for the last 2 weeks and am feeling very good. Hard to say if it's because of the goat milk culture or vitamin B shots though. My BMs are very normal and I don't feel sick after every meal anymore. Energy is way up. I'm gaining weight.

A note on taste. My raw goat milk is farm fresh, with the herd free grazing over 20 acres of varied terrain and edible landscapes. It doesn't taste quite like cow milk, is a little thinner. I haven't liked milk for years, but goat milk is great in a smoothie with bananas, blueberries and chia or flax. Once it's cultured with kefir it tastes like a good tangy yogurt with a bit of effervescence. Also once cultured it is lactose free.

Basically, no matter what anyone says about pasteurized, non pasteurized, uncleaned and unrefrigerated eggs, refrigerated eggs etc etc etc. it simply works out to pure chance in all.

All of these bacterial microorganisms have been around much longer than us and there are many, many different strains of all them. Is there less of a chance that a chicken running around freely outside versus in a coup with hundreds of others is going to have salmonella? Probably not because of natural host thing, but it does seems logical in a way. However even if so, is the salmonella that the one free range chicken just happens comes into contact within it's environment a highly virulent strain for humans? It's possible and it is pure chance. It does happen. The issue only arises when you're the unlucky one to eat the raw egg from that chicken or accidentally undercook and eat that particular chicken.

Is the grass fed, free range cow one drinks unpasturized milk free off any of highly virulent organisms to humans? Maybe... Can it come into contact with highly virulent strain of something walking around eating grass and whatnot and pass it onto us humans? Of course. This exact thing has been going on for as long as we've been around and for millions of years prior to 'Us' in other predator animals.

You could be lucky and drink unpasteurized milk till the cows come home and never get sick. OR you could have a glass and die tomorrow. That's the way these things work. It's a game of chance.

Pasteurization is simply one of the many ways we developed as a means to try and swing the odds of illness/death in our favour.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 9/11/2015 4:34:29 PM (GMT-6)

Hmmmmmm, too bad pasteurization doesn't kill the MAP bacteria.

Coincidentally on the pro side of it I just noticed this tonight:

ibdnewstoday.com/2015/09/11/swecure-therapy-allergy-inflammatory-diseases-prevention-approved-united-states/

"The development of Swe01 was based on 15 years of clinical research and the finding that infants, who were colonized in the gut by a bacterium strain called Staphylococcus aureus, were protected from developing future food allergy. Researchers identified the S. aureus protein (also referred to as superantigen) that was responsible for the activation of the immunological tolerance mechanisms, preventing the development of allergic reactions.

The findings have been confirmed in animal models, where neonatal mice given the S. aureus superantigen had an increased capacity to develop tolerance towards an allergic antigen (Ovalbumin in this case), resulting in an increased protection against allergic sensitization.

Swe01 was designed to be administered to infants during the first weeks after birth so that it can stimulate their immature immune system, and potentially offer a protective effect against allergies and prevent the development of inflammatory diseases like IBD."

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Just raw milk is also source of this (the bacteria in general). Though it can also make you very sick or kill you depending on the strain etc. So back to the chance thing.