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Posted 6/15/2012 10:42 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, I am still at it.

Milk fat does not seem to jive with the increase in IBD in the USA since about 1920.As you can see in these graphs for milk and
butter the consumption was quite high,and flat in those years.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/12/butter-margarine-and-heart-disease.html

http://www.ers.usda.gov/amberwaves/june03/datafeature/


Could there be a different reason such as genetics,where there was a large influx of Europens into the USA.
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snpim1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_immigration_to_the_United_States

Then we have milk consumption in Europe.

http://scielo.isciii.es/scielo.php?pid=S0211-95362010000100005&script=sci_arttext

Not sure what to make of all this, if anything.

Homogenization in USA started around 1919.

My grandparents on my fathers side came from eastern Europe around 1900 or so.

My other side is English,Irish,Welsh.

My parents had no IBD,yet my mother had her appendix out when she was young,grandmother on mothers side had gall bladder problems all her life.

Don't believe grandparents had IBD but who knows.

More stuff.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/164/7/615.full.pdf

http://www.broadmedical.org/asset/108-presentation-fiocchi%20-%20invited%20talk.pdf

This one has some good data,the theory is probably wrong but good historical data.

http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/pdf/v18/i15/1708.pdf

http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/7/175.pdf

Worldmap IBD.

http://ibd.ads-netlink.com/IBD/pdf/special/5.pdf

Pigs

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC87973/

Sulfate reducers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC101469/
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/16/2012 8:12:06 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/15/2012 2:06 PM (GMT 0)
Well I have written to them with such questions as to why milk fat consumption does not match up with the increase in IBD since 1920,
and the possibility that the highly refined milk fat used in the testing,might cause a problem with their results.
Also asked if they have other data or butter and coconut oil,and if they plan to try these fats.
Hopefully they will respond with answers.
Old Mike
Posted 6/15/2012 4:38 PM (GMT 0)
Hmm, well considering crohn's has been around for over a hundred years, many were probably sick with it back over a century ago, but until Dr. Burill Crohn put a name to one of the common IBD's, it wasn't likely well documented...now that the world's population is much bigger and IBD awareness is as well, maybe that's where it gets wonky....not to mention, many people (especially way back) wouldn't necessarily discuss their odd bowel habits, even with their docs...I've read that back in the day, many with bowel issues (described as IBD) were told by their docs that there was nothing wrong with them and they were crazy (since they didn't have the kind of testing like we do now, I guess that's how they dealt with patients back then).
Posted 6/16/2012 12:04 AM (GMT 0)
I think this kind of research points to the fact that the cause of U.C. is complex, because the makeup of the flora in our guts is complex, as is the interplay between the intestinal flora and our immune system. Unlike the stomach where only a few hardy species can thrive, the colon is designed to promote the growth of flora. This means it was easier to uncover the cause of stomach ulcers than it will be to identify the cause of intestinal ulcers seen with ulcerative colitis.

A few interesting points. The bacteria identified in the article loves sulfur, and many of us have a very strong sulfur smell when flaring. The bacteria can cause damage to the lining of the colon leading to chronic problems.

One huge variable not discussed is the role of antibiotics. I wonder if bilophila wadsworthia is resistant to broad spectrum antibiotics, and if so can become more prevalent after taking them?
Posted 6/16/2012 12:34 AM (GMT 0)

Uncertain Kiwi said...
Has anyone tried reducing their milk,cream and saturated fat intake to any success for mild colitis and sustained remission?

I went vegan in January (not for UC reasons). I'm in remission. I was a vegetarian before that and never drank dairy milk, but I did eat yogurt and cheese almost daily.

Thank you for posting this amazing study!!!
Posted 6/16/2012 1:10 AM (GMT 0)

Old Mike said...
If milk fat is the cause of UC I a bummed,just made my first sourdough loaf last night ate a ton of butter with it.
Love milk,butter,cream,ice cream,cheese.
Old Mike

There are lots of great vegan alternatives that taste just as good and are healthier for you (ok, I haven't found a good alternative to cheese but don't miss it at all)!
Posted 6/16/2012 1:12 AM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...

A few interesting points. The bacteria identified in the article loves sulfur, and many of us have a very strong sulfur smell when flaring. The bacteria can cause damage to the lining of the colon leading to chronic problems.

I never knew anyone else had this!! I always used to smell a strong "gas" smell when flaring, especially when I first was diagnosed. I always thought there was a gas leak in my apartment but no one else could ever smell it!
Posted 6/16/2012 10:55 AM (GMT 0)
Sara: Many of us had a bad sulfur gas smell when UC was first coming on.
My son for 6 months prior to getting UC could clear out a room for 15 minutes with a sulfur smell.
These sulfate reducing bacteria produce hydrogen sulfide and other sulfur compounds which are toxic to colon cells.
This has been know by the docs for at least 10 years.
As far a vegetarians go they are low in taurine,but your liver can still make it from other amino acids.
I wonder if there is a difference in the UC incidence between strict veggans and lacto ovo.

CGK: Read my first post it mentions this bacteria and antibiotics.
Mike
Posted 6/16/2012 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
I've never heard of a vegan getting UC. Have you?
Posted 6/16/2012 6:05 PM (GMT 0)
Why would they not get it? If milk were the issue, then the problem would have been solved long ago.

I believe killcolitis's daughter was raised vegan...
q
Posted 6/16/2012 6:13 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Sara: There are a few vegetairians on here that got UC,not sure who they are though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism

It would be interesting to see if how many have UC and if a difference between strick vegan and ovo-lacto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovo-lacto_vegetarianism

Also interesting to see versus meat eaters,milk fat eaters,high fat low fat diets.

I do know if you dont eat meat you will have very little taurine in your body,but as I said the liver can make

taurine from other amino acids.

Old Mike

Posted 6/16/2012 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Vegetarians, yes. One of them is me. Vegans, I have not heard of. And, no need for a wiki link...I am vegan...
Posted 6/16/2012 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Why do you keep bringing up the taurine thing since it's a non-issue?
Posted 6/16/2012 6:35 PM (GMT 0)
I wiki linked for myself so I know the terminology.
I bring up the taurine because perhaps extra in the diet may somehow get to the gut and feed thses bacteria,or since extra is present that the liver finds it easier to make taurine conguated bile.
In the study if they feed taurin conjugated bile to the animals they get an
bacterial bloom.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/16/2012 12:38:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/16/2012 6:59 PM (GMT 0)
Did not pay the $32 for the complete article here:

www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature11225.html

A bit more info is available in this summary:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120613133040.htm

Sounds like the problem is all concentrated saturated(or animal) fats ,not just milk fat, alter gut bacteria then trigger IBD in predisposed individuals. Does explain the increase in IBD in western countries. The portions of meat eaten and the percentage of fat in food animals has increased greatly post WWII.

Very clear evidence that diets high mammal fats promote inflammation and are causing heart disease, cancer,diabetes,altzheimers and various other diseases such as allergies in western populations. Those on certain Asian diets have 80% less of the so called western diseases. The other main culprit are refined carbs. I am moving toward the antiinflamitory diet(less supplements and asian mushrooms) because of my UC and family history of prostate cancer, high BP and altzeimers disease.
Posted 6/16/2012 7:41 PM (GMT 0)
I have the complete article they seem to indicate that lard is ok.

That sicence direct article is somewhat misleading,even though most of it came from the university site.

Here is the supplement from the nature site,it shows that lard is not inducing the sulfate reducers.

The specifically state that it is the milk fat, but as I have noted in other postes in this thread this

is a special mikl fat(mf) it is an anhydrous processed form of MF,which might act different in your

body than butter or milk.

But this stuff is also being added to the foods we eat.

The major difference between MF and lard in the fatty acid profile is that

MF has a lot more c-14 and lower saturated fats.  Whether this is the problem don't know. If it is then coconut could be a problem,but then again as far as I know the medium chain fats are directly absorbed

in the small intestine,possibly not much need for bile.

Difficult to say what is really going on,too much info yet not enough.

We also have to remember that they don't know if this applies to humans.

Old Mike

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/extref/nature11225-s1.pdf

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/16/2012 3:46:30 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/17/2012 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
If you read this new scientist post carefully,which I did not do initially,the researchers make two points that I missed.
If they stop feeding the MF the bacteria disappear and that the bacteria might trigger inflammatory bowel disease, but that other factors take over and sustain it once the disease has been initiated.

So this looks like MF as possible trigger but something else is sustaining the immune response,this perhaps is only part of the answer.
BOO, I was hoping that if the bacteria are gone then the UC would be gone.
As I have mentioned elsewhere,prior to my son getting UC he had terrible smelling sulfur gas which could clear out a room of people.
I cant remember if I had that or not,too long ago,but now my poo really has
no particular smell,which is odd. While the wife smells like a normal healthy person should
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21920-milk-fats-clue-to-inflammatory-bowel-disease.html

But, perhaps all hope is not lost, this old 1961 study by Dr. Truelove

indicates that in some,removal of mike causes a marked improvement.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1952962/pdf/brmedj02877-0030.pdf

As I re-read the Truelove experiments, it appears that pred and HC

rectally works in some people.

More from Truelove.

Read especially the last paragraph of the discussion,seems to fit with

the new milk fat theory. But that was 1965 and they did not know

as much as today about the effects of gut bacteria.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1845668/pdf/brmedj02585-0017.pdf

Other stuff,on sulfate.

http://www.dryarnell.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Sulfur_ulcerative_colitis.pdf

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/4/1/7

Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/17/2012 12:13:52 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/23/2012 12:07 PM (GMT 0)
Well heard back from the doc's that did the study. Dr.Chang.
Lard was also immunogenic but not as bad as the MF.
The bacterial bloom can be lessened by other lipids such as fish oil or
or soybean oil.
This anhydrous milk fat has been in the diet now for about 50 years or so
it is so refined that it might cause a problem as it is quite different than say
butter.

You have to look on food labels to find it,so far I have found it on a bag
of M&M's,when my kids were still young and we bought a lot of chocolate
candy for Easter,I would eat too much, and it did make my UC worse,also just found it in Klondike icecream bars.
This stuff might contribute to some peoples UC,but I still believe the cause
is something in, or not in the diet that happened prior to 50 years ago.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/23/2012 6:22:27 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/25/2012 12:37 PM (GMT 0)
How interesting. I just saw my 70 year old neighbor and she told me she was just diagnosed with UC two weeks ago. During our conversation she mentionmed that she had been eating alot of ice cream which she beleives brought it on. Well I do think Old Mike is onto something. All the while I never was a big dairy eater but did have some time to time. I do feel strong that milk from a mother cow is NOT good for us humans and is for her calf only. I think that we can all benefit from not eating any dairy. Our bodies simply are not designed to digest this. I always notce that people who consume alot of milk have distended stomachs also. Kinda like beer bellies. I am avoiding all dairy from here out. No more yogurt and yogurt cheese even for me. I ate both of these sparingly but nevber felt they did anything but feed my sweet tooth and my craving for cheese. Done


Steve

Post Edited (twiggs) : 6/25/2012 6:53:21 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/25/2012 1:20 PM (GMT 0)
I read a book called the China Study, and after that, I cut out milk almost entirely. No yogurt, no milk, no butter, no ice cream. I do still eat cheese on occasion. I have found it makes no difference. I have actually been feeling worse lately. Unless, I am missing something in my diet that has milk. But maybe there are many triggers for this disease, milk is just one in some people.
Posted 12/9/2012 5:38 PM (GMT 0)
Here's a new one, might require a new thread

Protective effects of black cumin (Nigella sativa) oil on TNBS-induced experimental colitis in rats
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10620-010-1333-z?LI=true
http://www.medicinabiomolecular.com.br/biblioteca/pdfs/Doencas/do-1120.pdf

What specific fatty acids within milkfat make it unfavorable? What specific fatty acids does taurocholic acid help break down?

What specific fatty acids within black cumin oil make it favorable? Here's a breakdown of each

MILKFAT %
Palmitic Acid 26
Oleic Acid 28
Myristic Acid 12
Stearic Acid 11
Palmitoleic Acid 4
Linoleic Acid 3
Linolenic Acid 1

BLACK CUMIN OIL
Linoleic 59
Oleic 27
Palmitic 7
Stearic 3
Posted 12/10/2012 5:24 AM (GMT 0)

twiggs said...
How interesting. I just saw my 70 year old neighbor and she told me she was just diagnosed with UC two weeks ago. During our conversation she mentionmed that she had been eating alot of ice cream which she beleives brought it on. Well I do think Old Mike is onto something. All the while I never was a big dairy eater but did have some time to time. I do feel strong that milk from a mother cow is NOT good for us humans and is for her calf only. I think that we can all benefit from not eating any dairy. Our bodies simply are not designed to digest this. I always notce that people who consume alot of milk have distended stomachs also. Kinda like beer bellies. I am avoiding all dairy from here out. No more yogurt and yogurt cheese even for me. I ate both of these sparingly but nevber felt they did anything but feed my sweet tooth and my craving for cheese. Done


Steve


I also believe that milk bacteria has something to do with UC. I got UC after eating ice cream in Mexico one night which resulted in going to the washroom about 17 times without any imodium (I was 100% fine/nothing wrong with me the day before I got UC).
Posted 12/10/2012 6:31 AM (GMT 0)
Shouldn't we keep in mind that they're testing this on mice, not humans?
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