OT - health insurance, why its difficult to get without employment?

butte1, I had several statistics I stated and maybe those were lost to you. World Health Organization (WHO) reports that the United States ranks .. [/]39th on the overall health status of its citizens worldwide ... 49th for infant mortality" and there are many more I could dig up with the same tone. So it doesn't matter which one you look at, life expectancy, overhall health status, and so forth there is a clear trend pointing towards the fact a lot of work needs to be done to play catchup with the rest of the world.

I think at the end of the day facts prevail over 'gut feelings', and I put great faith in fact and the science of statistics.

The problem is systematic and across the board. Insurers are responsible, hospitals are responsible, even patients are responsible. There is waste, there is over testing, unnecessary testing, and a lot of us with insurance just say "yeah go ahead" whenever a dr wants a test because we don't pay for the test directly or see the cost (the insurance company covers/handles it). Some personal responsibility is good for patients, if we know upfront what these unnecessary tests cost then we'd say no from the get go. Drs do over test to protect their butts should they get sued later "torte reform would help reduce that fear". Health centers overcharge because they get reimbursed differently depending whether you are medicaid, medicare, and every insurance company pays differently for the same exact procedure. Why can't the reimbursement rates for a procedure be fairly determined and everyone pays the same amount regardless of how you are covered?

I never claimed anyone on this board is a millionaire (but if there are millionaire members can you send me some $$$ no strings attached?).

ipoop, literally none of the stats were lost on me that you mentioned in fact none of them have to do with quality of CARE one receives in our healthcare system. They do point to the fact we are a multiculutral society, in fact overhwlemingly the largest multicultural society in the world and not a homogenious one like literally most of the rest of the world is and even those that aren't do not have near the scope and breadth we do here, I mean where else in the world will find as large of South African or MiddleEastern populations outside of their own countries than you will find  int he USA, then check out their life expectancies and then tell me there isn't a correlation, like I said, overhauling the healtcare system won't be but a blip on the radar on that stat as one example. Further your stats point to a tendency of many citizens in our society to over indulge, become obese and not take care of themselves but again that is not because of the quality of care they receive from healthcare professionals nor does it actually show acecess to said care is "restrcitive" within those stats, again that is more of a cultural and education based stat not a healthcare system stat, because again the porrest of the poor in our country do have access to care, and actually said care is not as "bad or restrictive" as you think. In reality the rich AND the poor have great car ein this country if they so choose to access it, it's actually the not rich but not poor middle class that does not have employer insurance that are sort of this weird hung out to dry subset in our country, they have money but not enough, it's realistically why the political nonsense is geared toward them. Also,have one of the largest illiegal alien populations in the world barr none and those folks rarely seek professional medical treatment until it's dire which inflates those stats, yes those folks are in the stats you are so proud of. There are other factors those stats point to but virtually none of them would be fixed by any kind of healthcare system overhaul, that is what people do not understand.... I am not using gut feeling I just understand the stats better than you. Ignoring the basically uselessness of most of those stats, honestly when you consider our population size, our diversity in ethnicity and genetic background and how spreadout we are in this country, our healthcare system is actually a freaking marvel that we rank as high as we do compared to most other countries..... I mean seriously show me a country with a larger population than ours that ranks above us, or even one that comes close to our population size..... your ingoring factors that effect those stats....

Now I do 100% agree with the statement of "Why can't the reimbursement rates for a procedure be fairly determined and everyone pays the same amount regardless of how you are covered?", that is one of the biggest problems out there and believe as much and basically said as much within the areas I called for reform in above, that type of thing would happen within my major reform suggestions.

Post Edited (butte1) : 11/15/2012 3:38:04 PM (GMT-7)

ipoop said...
garylouisville,
I have a neighbor who's father died in his mid 50's (the father drank himself to death) with no insurance and he now has $45,000+ in hospital bills and the death of his father to contend with.

My mom drank herself to death, at 51 years old. But that didn't make me liable for her medical bills. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills. Children are NOT liable for the debts of their parents unless they signed a guarantee. Spouses can be liable, but never children.

Butte1: Haha well at least we agree on somethings. I guess the rest we'll just have to call a gentleman's disagreement. You sound like a die-hard conservative and I am about as liberal as one can get here (I admire government-run healthcare systems like Canada's as I think "making a profit" when someone is sick is just reprehensible). Things need to be done that are politically unpopular (whether liberal or conservative ideas) and nobody has had the guts to get the job done. And I think many of us feel passionate about that issue, since having access to affordable and quality healthcare is important, especially those of us with chronic health conditions.

Meyerlemony: As far as hospitals not being able to go after a son after the death of his father -- tell that to my neighbor. As the only heir he inherited his dad's assets, and the hospital is suing the father's estate in court. He is doing everything he can to fight the suit, and get a settlement for less than the actual hospital bill, but it is going to be a very drawn out, time intensive process that isn't going away anytime soon. His dad wasn't that well off and neither is he, so he might end up with nothing once it all settles.

Probiotic: Well, healthcare isn't "free", whether you live in the United States or in Canada as everyone who is capable of working contributes through the payroll tax system (even the poor on medicaid and medicare), as well as state taxes, sales taxes, and local taxes all of which feed in part into the healthcare system. If not directly to healthcare providers in reimbursement for the poor, then to those providers through tax breaks and other write-offs in the tax code for development to stay local and forth. It might be nice in Canada to go to the drs and not be charged a copay, or get a bill afterwards in the mail, but they are contributing through payroll taxes and all of the aforementioned equivalent taxes whether you actually need healthcare or not. Canadians pay quite a bit for their supposed free healthcare system through the tax code and therefore get smaller take-home paychecks.

Even if one goes to the emergency room in the U.S. and cannot pay, the hospital and bill collectors still do everything they can to get paid for services rendered (lots of threatening and harassing practices by bill collectors, lawsuits and so forth). And it makes the news sometimes when they go overboard harassing and intimidating an individual for his supposed free care. So much for compassion and free care for the poor when the almighty dollar is owed.