What Dr's won't take themselves

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/jan/19/what-doctors-wont-do

Sorry don't know how to make the link live or whatever it's called.

Scroll down to the Dr who talks about when he "had" colitis, what he thinks of pred and what he did for treatment. This confirms my theory that most docs would never allow themselves/their families to be treated with the same junk they give us and would explore every alternative first.

Post Edited By Moderator (Madcat25) : 1/24/2013 8:48:10 PM (GMT-7)

My dad is a retired physician. I have known him my whole life and I trust him to help me understand what is wrong when I don't feel well. On the other hand, I know him to be an anti-interventionist. If I want advice on possible interventions (medication, surgery) I will not ask him. If I want advice on how to cope without intervention, he is the guy to go to.

When he practiced medicine he was a pediatrician. Most often kids get better, so being a wait-and-see kind of guy is exactly who you want taking care of your kid. My dad would only prescribe antibiotics if there was a positive strep test. [When people here talk about overuse of abx being the source of IBD they are not talking about my dad, LOL!]

I guess what I'm saying is you have to realize that DRs are people and they have biases.

My dad developed a gastrointestinal problem a few years ago after a stomach bug. He had diarrhea for 2 years. He did ultimately get scoped (3x over that period) and all that was found was excessive eosinophils. He modified his diet (removed all raw veggies and fruit) and eventually got better. But let me repeat - 2 years of diarrhea.

What I found most striking is the contradiction -- one doc said he wouldn't dismiss alternative medicine, one said he wouldn't use alternative medicine, and another said wouldn't use homeopathic medicines (which I would categorize as "alternative.")

As for the doc who said he wouldn't use steroids unnecessarily, he had "colitis." Not ulcerative colitis. I wouldn't take steroids for "colitis" either. But I have (and would again) for ulcerative colitis, as I think the role and risks/benefits of steroid use in UC are fairly well understood.

I also don't think that the docs in that article would prescribe/recommend those things for their patients. Maybe I'm misreading, though.

I guess I have a different perspective when it comes to GIs and diet (as in I haven't had a bad experience in this area). I've had three GIs now -- one in WA state and two here in NY. I ditched my first NY GI because his office staff suuuuuucked and I was completely fed up with them (just explaining why I've "gone through" three GIs in a relatively short period of time).

At any rate, I only discussed diet with my first GI; I haven't brought it up with my other two, since I'm in remission and am not looking to change my treatment. I did ask my first GI if there was anything I should do diet-wise, and he said that he couldn't recommend anything specific, because he hasn't found any overwhelming evidence to show that any one diet plan or diet modificiation helps all UCers. He said that if I wanted to look into how diet affects my UC, that I should keep a food journal.

Honestly, I thought that was a pretty good response, coming from a medically-trained GI. And he was open to talking about alternative therapies with me. He said that he'd read some about worm therapy, fecal transplant, etc and was interested where it'd all go. We didn't talk about whether or not he'd help me if I chose to explore those treatments, but he at least seemed open to them. I didn't really talk to him about it too much as I preferred to see what the mesalamine drugs did first.

I think you've been lucky. We had a GI say something similar to us but he was a second opinion and we could not be treated by him as he was out of the country. I just think the vast majority will be disparaging and brush it off if a patient wants to discuss it. That's obviously in part due to their training but then when it comes to themselves I think many know better than to take these meds and seek out alternatives.

They're only perspectives of doctors, subjective. Not patients who see them because they don't have the knowledge that the doctors do.

We all have our own biases on here...I'd not take meds or have tests that some suggest. i'd also not prolong a situation just to save an organ,

I think it's a good article. Raised my eyebrows a few times saying "I agree", "hmm, never thought of that", or "I disagree".

Definitely food for thought...

Remember that many of us here for any extended amount of time have benefitted from others' experiences, be it negative or positive. There's the freeflow of information, and we can make better decisions based on that. I can make suggestions to others that I'd never do, but it doesn't mean that others aren't receptive to another option.

Just to add, I had a gynecologist (male) who treated me in an undignified manner).  To top it off, he was a family friend of my MIL...as well as her gyne.  He ended up with cancer, and I truly wish he had a very undignified experience to connect with those who he mistreated in his practice.  Women have to spread their legs...a very fragile position to be in when treated rudely.
q

thanks fruitgirl and kasberm for being the voices or reason. many good points in this thread, but IMO it began with ignorance

to take an instance of what one Dr is reported to have said about what may or may not have been UC, but was certainly specific to a particular time (whee some treatments did nor did not exist), and make the kind of flawed inferences killcolitis makes is sad. I suspect it was willful malfeasance.

@killcolitis: The statement of that Dr may have aligned with some suspicions you have, but the anecdotal account of one Dr can in no way no how "confirm" or "prove" your suspicions. ... and even if taken as an illustration of "some" Drs appearing more selective than you perceive them to be asking you to be, it can no way no how transfer to "most". Illogical. Stupid. End of story. Stop it. If you can read and write and look things up on line, you are smarter than that. Disingenuity rots civil dialog.

@Cristine: whats your point? you are right, Remicade did not exist, so you the advice you got some time back has absolutely no bearing on the ethics of the Dr. Also, for pediatric IBD in particular, the emerging standard of care is to go straight to the heavy treatments, and not to begin with 1st-line treatments and work up. Some practitioners disagree, but what he would do based on standard of pediatric care, and what risks (of side effects) he would take (as a parent) for his child, has very little relation to what he advised you. In fact, that fact that he related this to you might be evidence that he was trying to give you as nuanced and as personalized an insight as possible. so, whats your point?

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Fruitgirl/quincy, I think this type of thing really gets to me since we (and I know we're not alone) have been treated appallingly by quite a few docs for daring to ask questions about side effects and options (our drs are apparently not used to having questions asked of them) and have been pushed into various treatments for our daughter which we didn't really think were best (it becomes more complicated for a number of reasons when a child is involved I think as an adult can just walk away from and refuse a treatment) so to hear drs talk about how they would not take meds which we were pressured into taking I get angry. Especially since he chose a diet which has been disparaged by our GI for the past three years (despite her having patients who do well on it and I know this because I know their parents).

I agree with you....but the article's not personally directed at you. Your issues with your doctors have nothing to do with other doctors' personal perspectives.

I know that if I had the "other" doctor I would have been put on prednisone immediately. My brain goes into freak-mode at the very thought of what could have happened to me mentally had I been referred to him.

Not all doctors are equal, and they all have perspectives regardless of what their training is or what they've been taught.

Just as an aside, you're making decisions for your daughter's treatment to try many things that many wouldn't ever do. She's at the mercy of everyone.

But she's doing better from what I understand. And you're tenacious enough to exhaust every possibility. It's not a bad thing. Not everything works for everyone.

I always wish your daughter well. But you'll never get away from perspectives of others who deal with stuff in a different way.

q

Did the doc mention if it would be a limited dosage of pred...such as 5 days, a 10 day taper..etc?

I can see if it was affecting her balance or poison ivy or something that can actually be helped by it. I've recently heard it being used for extreme bouts of sinus issues.

q

I think it does have a purpose, but it's still being used more liberally. Methinks to some detriment in the future.

q

FWIW, I've NEVER heard of pred being prescribed for a simple case of strep throat. I had it a ton as a kiddo and was never given it. And when my son had strep last year, he was feeling better by the day after we started abx -- that's PLENTY soon, IMO.

The article said...
I would never go on a low-carbohydrate, high-protein diet like Atkins, Dukan or Cambridge. Why? Because although you will probably lose weight, they may kill you. Don't take my word for it – read about the 43,396 Swedish women followed for an average of 15 years. Those who stuck to low carbs and high protein had a rising risk of dying from heart attacks and strokes, depending on how strict they were and for how long they endured them. There was a staggering 62% higher risk of such illnesses among the women eating the strictest diet over those who ate normally.

I always wondered about that. The advocates of the low-carb Paleo diet can counter by recommending that grass-fed meat is not as dangerous as grain-fed meat. Maybe. But I would like to see good research before deciding. Besides most Paleo enthusiasts do not eat 100 percent grass-fed meat all the time since it is more scarce than grain-fed meat.

I agree with the views of some of the doctors and disagree with some of the others. That's OK, everybody is different. Instead of anecdotal accounts from individual doctors someone should conduct a scientific poll to see how doctors really feel about the treatments they are prescribing to their patients. Of course the respondents must be assured of anonymity.

I am curious if they really believe their own BS about chemotherapy, flu shots, and antidepressants. Yes, DBwithUC, I admit some prejudices here. It comes from life experiences and learning to think for myself. If you have been reading the forum then you cannot help but notice numerous examples of being led down the primrose path by doctors, and of people who are grateful that they ignored that advice:

Quincy said...
I know that if I had the "other" doctor I would have been put on prednisone immediately. My brain goes into freak-mode at the very thought of what could have happened to me mentally had I been referred to him.

Post Edited (BabeintheWoods) : 1/23/2013 3:59:50 PM (GMT-7)