riboflavin (B2)

I'd never thought about manganese much before but seems it is a very important nutrient
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198225 - Manganese superoxide di****ase, MnSOD and its mimics
and again one that has to be kept in balance or too much becomes toxic.

Looking at the traditional diet from where my previous generations hail from, there would have been lots of buckwheat and rye in the diet which give manganese. It's another thing that would be easy to get deficient of in the standard Western diet.

Thank you PK, so much to read ...

Just reading again about how B2 deficiency now definitely linked with cataracts, not a person in my family who managed to make it into old age who didn't develop cataracts.

I know you think I am focussing too much on just the one Vit and of course I understand and I won't move on anything until I have really understand the mechanism of them all It's just that B-complex has always helped me in the short term (although obviously overload is a killer for me) and I need to really understand it well. An example of when B-complex helped was when I entered puberty and began getting itchy hands and feet, a naturopath gave me B-complex and it went away fast.

definitely not touching any supplements until I know far more. Just managed to get in touch with the guys who ran the study on the pre-cursors of riboflavin being implicated in activating the T-Cells in the colon that seem at the base of "autoimmune" inflammation and they said they might be able to talk it through for me in layman's terms.

This one - http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nature13160.html

He said it is really new and far too early to draw anything about treatment from it so far. It is so technical, I am hoping to understand more about riboflavin pre-cursors from it

I know someone else who works at that uni and he said that the researcher is a brilliantly clever guy

Sorry to hear of your problems Gutszilla

I am not medical so this is only my thoughts and not advice but I guess if it was me I'd do the following

I would get blood tests to check levels of these B vitamins, where possible red blood cell level as well as plasma level to try and learn how much is being absorbed and how much is in plasma (that may be "free" and not being metabolised).

If you need B12 and you are not reacting well to the supplement have a look at what form it is. I was taking high levels of cyanocobalamin which is the cheapest variant - have a look at this thread
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3050484

If you do need B12 (and do have your blood levels checked before diving into supplements) and you have been taking cyanocobalamin you could try the hydroxycobalamin version as it is said to be better for certain genetic make ups (such as mine) and incidentally used as an antidote to cyanide toxicity. Finally there is the methylcocbalamin version but several of us on here have reacted badly to it.

I do not know too much about B6 other than it is the one B that is certainly known for being potentially dangerous in too high doses, this is from the UK national health service website "What happens if I take too much vitamin B6? Taking more than 200mg a day of vitamin B6 for a long time can lead to a loss of feeling in the arms and legs, known as peripheral neuropathy. Generally, the symptoms are reversible, so once you stop taking supplements the symptoms usually stop. However, in a few cases when people have taken large amounts of vitamin B6, especially for more than a few months, the effect has been irreversible. Taking doses of 10-200mg a day for short periods may not cause any harm. However, there is not enough evidence to say for how long these doses could be taken safely"

As for B2 - as far as everything I have read so far, there is no clear evidence of harm from supplementing - who knows though when something may be found to the contrary. Given what one reads and my own experience I do think it is potentially possible that one can get a kind of rebound reaction when getting back up to levels of a vit that has been missing but I would not want to stay on a supplement if I experienced adverse effects from it after my previous experiences.

I hope this pain clears for you

you should take b-12 sublingual, not oral tablets. I dont necessarily believe in supplementing calcium in absence of labs showing low calcium, parathyroid or osteoporosis issues if you can eat a varied diet. B12 also needs lithium in the right amounts to permeate the cell membrane.

142 mg mag isnt very much... I wonder if you've depleted b6. Its interesting that biotin did that to you and it hasnt eased up since you stopped.

What else do you take? Do you have your genetics?

Well,

I'd go for sublingual, except my digestive system is so ridiculously picky, that I have to be super careful about what's in my supplements. I haven't found a sublingual that doesn't have ingredients that are risky for me.

That said, here's a few thoughts. I'd love some more feedback on them, if anyone cares to.
-with my dietary restrictions, I don't get enough calcium. Diet analysis shows I get 37% of the calcium I need. And it's been that way for a long time -- probably 2 years. Hence, adding calcium is probably a good idea.
-yes, I know 142mg isn't much, but it's more than I have been getting. Anyway, I do get enough magnesium according to dietary analysis (not that it's foolproof, but it's a reasonable first-pass indicator): 132%
-I didn't take my B12 liquid today (which is cyanocobalamin, incidentally). the sandpaper is pretty much gone. This liquid also has other B vitamins. So, if the calcium was limiting my uptake of B-12, then adding this B-12 supplement probably wouldn't have increased my b-12 uptake, but perhaps (presumably, I guess) I would have absorbed the other B vitamins, which would put me at even more of a B12 deficiency, as I understand it. Maybe this "caused" my sandpaper mouth. ?

I guess I'll try calcium and B-12 liquid tomorrow and see what happens. Man, I hate being my own science experiment!