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Magnesium,histamine,DAO,mast cells,methylation all interrelated

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Posted 6/22/2014 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting info. Also Mg necessary for about 300 enzymes in the body.

Old Mike

http://synergyhw.blogspot.com/2013/01/magnesium-part-3-wrath-of-histamine.html

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/29/2014 8:13:48 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/22/2014 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
The list of foods with histamine or that cause blocking of DAO is very similar to my list of "not good" foods (green tea, chocolate, shellfish, citrus, beans, papaya, tomatoes, strawberries, wheat etc). I also found it interesting that the article says that FODMAP foods may be a cause of histamine problems. I tried FODMAP diet way back when and it was a huge fail for me.

Leftovers are not much of a problem for me but my father and grandfather never ate them their whole life. Wonder about that now.

So I have avoided these foods generally. I don't really want to take another pill like DAO so wonder how to check my magnesium levels. I seem to remember my numbers were good but it's been a while.
Posted 6/22/2014 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
how to check my magnesium levels. I seem to remember my numbers were good but it's been a while

First of all unlike iron, vitamin D, B12, etc., there is no reliable blood test to check for magnesium deficiency. Mag is so essental for your body's metabolism that it will cannibalize magnesium from your body's stores and tissues to maintain sufficient blood levels. 

So blood level evaluations done in hospitals and in laboratories using the antiquated serum magnesium test is not very accurate. One of the few ways to accurately measure magnesium levels in the body is by using cells gently scraped from an area in the mouth.

Check out your body's magnesium requirement, 350-500 mg per day, and then monitor your food intake. Unless you eat leaves from trees all day then you will probably notice that your daily intake of magnesium does not meet the minimum.  That is why I think most people are deficient, especially IBDers. On the other hand one of the signs of excessive magnesium is loose stools. That is when I know I am taking too much.

Never take calcium alone without magnesium. Some speculate that may be the reason calcium supplementation is sometimes associated with kidney stones and heart problems.
Posted 6/22/2014 7:33 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks IAC

I remembered I have some magnesium pills around here but when I last took one bad things happened. I also have the spray oil for external use. Maybe I took too much? Have to look into it some more.

Every now and then I do an epson salt bath, nothing miraculous happens but I like it.
Posted 6/23/2014 1:47 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Old Mike. This is all fascinating. I had been taking B6 at one time but someone here talked me into stopping it. I've been doing quite well without it but now I wonder if I should go back to it. Never heard of the magnesium angle before.
Posted 6/23/2014 9:28 AM (GMT 0)
Gary it was probably me.
B6 is associated with UC, it also generates some peroxides in some of its reactions.
We probably get enough,my guess from food.
But magnesium might be another story as to getting enough,from food, and too much supplementation
can cause D,at least orally. Trnasdermal,magnesium oil might work well in addition to a small amout
orally. It addition mag is needed to make glutathione.
Old Mike

looks like with bowel disease might be dangerous to take too much,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1489003

while this one says something different

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3294519

uc mag study in kids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3981372

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/23/2014 4:12:35 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/23/2014 11:23 AM (GMT 0)
I know this thread concerns getting too little magnesia but be aware that--

Older people should watch out for too much magnesia which can happen if they take an antacid.

And others (any age) who takes these over-the-counter allergy meds are at increased risk of magnesia overdose:
Antacids taken with drugs such as pseudoephedrine (Sudafed, Semprex D, Clarinex-D 12hr, Clarinex-D 24hr, , Deconsal, Entex PSE, Claritin D, and more), and levodopa (Dopar), increase absorption of the drugs and can cause toxicity/adverse events due to increased blood levels of the drugs.

A high food source of magnesium is cooked spinach. So maybe that's why spinach has always been very colon-friendly for me (plus it's gentle fiber).

All of these things are not something most GI's will look into until you're in the hospital but even then it may be missed.

Good work OM.
Posted 6/28/2014 1:32 PM (GMT 0)
Gut bacteria/tnf just by reducing magnesium.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20089787

magnesium intoxication.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18624000

moderation otherwise a problem

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23549833

this is interesting,make sure you read

 Cellular magnesium deficit, perhaps involving TRPM6/7 channels, elicits calcium-activated inflammatory cascades independent of injury or pathogens.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22364157

again another overdose warning

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22244603

c-reactive protein

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19658273

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/28/2014 10:05:36 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/28/2014 4:48 PM (GMT 0)
man... why do you refuse to look at methylation and all the various cycles?
Magnesium, dao, histamine .. they all obey these cycles. If they are off its because of a problem in the path. Find the problem in the path and fix it with supplements or detox or whatever you have to do for that specific block.


You and CM make me want to poke my eyeballs in. (but in very different ways because you have always been kind to me OM and I am ROOTING for you. There are a few people on this forum that I really am rooting for, most dont touch me.)

It's right freaking there but you guys are just stuck in this forest and you keep pointing out all these really interesting trees.. and yeah, cool trees guys..

But there is a mountain lake up ahead and it's reflection holds all the keys you need. You just gotta be looking for a lake.. not the trees.

Post Edited (PathogenKiller) : 6/28/2014 10:53:42 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/28/2014 5:56 PM (GMT 0)
Path: Thanks for the kind words,by the way I enjoy reading your info.

That is why the internet is great,and this site is great,we all take different paths in our attempt to

find the solution to UC.

Perhaps someday the connected internet brain,will make the breakthrough.

As for me I am driven to solve UC if solvable, I have grandkids now,and it scares the crap out of me.

I have looked into methylation somewhat.

I agree it is a possible.

When I tried methyl folate,or methyl B12 even a little,got much worse.

I know too much too fast not good.

But for me what I have found,is that anything that makes me worse,

get off of it right away,or else.

So I keep looking.

As I said ,I keep looking,perhaps Mg is a methylation key afterall.

Mg-ATP – not just ATP – is required for every Methylation reaction in the human body! 

http://mthfralliance.com/2014/02/11/the-methylation-conundrum-part-1-of-2/

well it does look like Mg-ATP is the bio active form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_in_biology

something else of interest

Magnesium Decreases Inflammatory Cytokine Production: A Novel Innate Immunomodulatory Mechanism

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/188/12/6338.full?sid=53cdb290-e441-4271-84c7-a3e02002d38f

Old Mike

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/28/2014 2:55:53 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/29/2014 1:49 AM (GMT 0)
UC is solveable.


You should read the Disease Delusion.. i posted the link.


Lots of people get a lot worse on b vitamins.. so you can then back off and go at it from other routes. or you have to push through. I had to push through but the other side was really awesome!

23andme really helps. if you can see your biome along with that it really really provides some fascinating information...

BUT, I have to warn you that there is no way out that just goes up. There are regressions and unravellings. Disease is complicated. These processes are complicated.. and healing can be painful before it gets better.

I find that folks with UC point blank mostly need antibiotics or antifungals...sometimes people can get through with non rx abx/antiviral/antifungals.. but it's a lot harder. your biome is amok.. you gotta fix that.. and eating ferments and starving yourself isnt going to do it. It may manage it.. but it will NEVER fix it. Paleo/fodmaps/whatever will NEVER on it's own fixed advanced UC.. maybe if you did it after your first flare.. but not chronic uc.

my best strategy is to find a local Lyme group.. then see who they refer you to that takes insurance. Dont go to doctors that dont take insurance unless you have absolutely no other option. I dont find that they are the best docs, but they will do what you want, so that is helpful. Lyme docs believe in pathogenic roots of disease so they will look. Whereas a lot of the other western med folks just think you are broken and they try to manage you.

So, get a crap ton of tests run.. its hard to tell you what tests without knowing your history... but hopefully this doc is smart and will be able to figure that out. I had no idea I had lyme.. it was not even on my radar.

That's my newbie advice.. to you hard asses who are just grinding it out.. trying to unravel this on your own :)... epigenetics and pathogens.. those are your holy grails.

Post Edited (PathogenKiller) : 6/28/2014 7:53:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/11/2015 9:47 AM (GMT 0)

TheAnswersYouSeek said...
UC is solveable.


You should read the Disease Delusion.. i posted the link.


Lots of people get a lot worse on b vitamins.. so you can then back off and go at it from other routes. or you have to push through. I had to push through but the other side was really awesome!

23andme really helps. if you can see your biome along with that it really really provides some fascinating information...

BUT, I have to warn you that there is no way out that just goes up. There are regressions and unravellings. Disease is complicated. These processes are complicated.. and healing can be painful before it gets better.

I find that folks with UC point blank mostly need antibiotics or antifungals...sometimes people can get through with non rx abx/antiviral/antifungals.. but it's a lot harder. your biome is amok.. you gotta fix that.. and eating ferments and starving yourself isnt going to do it. It may manage it.. but it will NEVER fix it. Paleo/fodmaps/whatever will NEVER on it's own fixed advanced UC.. maybe if you did it after your first flare.. but not chronic uc.

my best strategy is to find a local Lyme group.. then see who they refer you to that takes insurance. Dont go to doctors that dont take insurance unless you have absolutely no other option. I dont find that they are the best docs, but they will do what you want, so that is helpful. Lyme docs believe in pathogenic roots of disease so they will look. Whereas a lot of the other western med folks just think you are broken and they try to manage you.

So, get a crap ton of tests run.. its hard to tell you what tests without knowing your history... but hopefully this doc is smart and will be able to figure that out. I had no idea I had lyme.. it was not even on my radar.

That's my newbie advice.. to you hard asses who are just grinding it out.. trying to unravel this on your own :)... epigenetics and pathogens.. those are your holy grails.



would Sodium Butyrate work for Crohns disease?
Posted 10/11/2015 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
Domino effect of hypomagnesemia on the innate immunity of Crohn's disease patients.

www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=66571
Posted 10/12/2015 2:54 AM (GMT 0)
Just as an aside, as someone else posted on another thread that water helped, I found the same - but I add sea salt and baking soda to distilled water and mix with a bit of orange juice to make a home made gatorade type thing. Works wonders for me 'thirst' wise.

Been doing this for a few months now with pretty good success. Nothing remarkable, but it really calms my gut down and help after an attack of IBS D. Was just thinking of the magnesium and other minerals in sea salt. I think it's fairly high.

----------

EDIT - Never mind!! haha.. I decided to look it up and there's really not much magnesium in sea salt. Nor many other minerals. I guess marketing tactics come into play on the whole sea salt/mineral thing.

Also if you want to make a true electrolyte drink you're supposed to use distilled water because it's 'demineralized' otherwise the sodium ions are to attracted to them or something like that. I don't know, that's Old Mike territory, chemistry and all. Perhaps sea salt is not the best choice. Anyways, the water and OJ with sea salt and baking soda works better for me than plain water.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 10/11/2015 9:06:42 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/17/2017 2:46 PM (GMT 0)
In the spinach diet is it the magnesium that helps.
Old Mike

mag supplement in DSS mice

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28674250

or perhaps is it the oxalic acid which inhibits lactate dehydrogenase or a combination
/link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02148853

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 10/17/2017 10:12:55 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/17/2017 8:33 PM (GMT 0)
Could be folate, or a combination of many micro-nutrients having a role on methylation.

nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2626/2

Note that this chart shows the nutrition data of raw spinach; not cooked.

This one shows the data from cooked spinach:

nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2627/2

Patients with UC have higher levels of MTHFR mutation, IIRC.

-----------------------------
Does eating spinach help you, OM?

-----------------------------

Another question: Do you think it is safe to supplement with NAC on a daily basis for a long time if you have Crohn's disease?

I've always stayed away from NAC supplementation because of its mucolytic effect. I think it can massively increase the problems with leaky gut.

In addition to the leaky gut, the mucolytic effect can increase the risk of having a serious infection while you're on immunosuppressants for CD or UC, I think.

What do you think?

Post Edited (xy123) : 10/17/2017 2:47:21 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/18/2017 11:03 AM (GMT 0)
XY: Tried it in the past no help, but trying again,not really for UC but for macular degeneration.
Another tidbit about magnesium is that it helps seal the small intestine along with calcium.

I have tried lots of NAC no help, and never noticed mucus thinning,but perhaps you cant visually tell,
or even tell by clearing your throat.

OM
Posted 10/18/2017 11:44 AM (GMT 0)

Old Mike said...
not really for UC but for macular degeneration.

Hey Mike,

Sorry to hijack your thread but if you really, really want to see an interesting link on macular degeneration and macular edema then you need to view this:

/www.google.com/patents/US9125940
A 79 year old female patient, having cataract in the left eye, received cataract surgery at the beginning of 2011. Macular edema remained after the surgical procedure and the patient's vision acuity was only 20/160. The patient received oral administration of the composition of Sample 1 of Table 2, once a day for two months. It was then found that the patient's macular edema disappeared and her left eye vision acuity improved to 20/20.

Post Edited (IamCurious) : 10/18/2017 5:50:01 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/18/2017 12:36 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Iam, been researching this for quite some time,trying to avoid the shots in the eye.
This started in my left eye when I was around 34 lots of edema in left eye now, central vision
has been gone for years.
Good patent.
OM
Posted 10/19/2017 7:54 PM (GMT 0)

Old Mike said...
Thanks IAC, been researching this for quite some time,trying to avoid the shots in the eye.
This started in my left eye when I was around 34 lots of edema in left eye now, central vision
has been gone for years. Good patent.

Then you might also be interested in how LEDs from electronic devices can wreck havoc on your macula and optic nerve. You can get special reading glasses to block out harmful blue light.

Apple's newest iphones have the means in their settings to cut back up to 70 percent of the blue light emissions. (Either Apple is considering the best interests of their customers or perhaps trying to avoid future lawsuits, LoL). Anyway don't be surprised if there is an epidemic of macular degeneration in our future with all these electronic devices.

www.bluelightexposed.com/#blue-light-and-macular-degeneration
A Harvard medical study states that "High Energy Visible (HEV) blue light has been identified for years as the most dangerous light for the retina.  After chronic exposure, one can expect to see long range growth in the number of macular degenerations, glaucomas, and retinal degenerative diseases".

And a paper published by the American Macular Degeneration Foundation (AMDF) reports that "the blue rays of the spectrum seem to accelerate age-related macular degeneration (AMD) more than any other rays in the spectrum".
Posted 10/19/2017 8:38 PM (GMT 0)
/justgetflux.com
Posted 10/20/2017 2:01 AM (GMT 0)
Flux may or may not block blue light at night but it doesn't seem to block it during the day.
Posted 10/20/2017 12:34 PM (GMT 0)
The new version allows you to block it whenever you want. Besides, the blue light we receive from our monitors isn't comparable with that of the sun's in the morning.
Posted 10/21/2017 2:56 PM (GMT 0)
There is something going on with endogenous calcium,phosphate,and magnesium secreated in
the small intestine and the immune system. They form nano particles which grab antigens and present
to immune cells. Now what happens if magnesium deficient,perhaps some malfunction, wild guess.
Old Mike
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4404757/

Those with crohn's should for sure read this.

Follow up on crohn's.

/www.nature.com/articles/srep26747

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 10/21/2017 9:21:54 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/23/2017 4:47 AM (GMT 0)
So Ive been getting some help from the somewhat expensive "Isatis cooling" containing, among other things, qing dai. I ran out and ordered more, but was dismayed that the shipping this time around was taking forever- long story short, about 4 days without. I was beginning to worsen, I could tell. Great, losing momentum. And I now do NOT believe its got steroids in it.

I picked up some transdermal Mg, and was really thinking that it was going to be another supplement on which money was wasted... Thing is, and I may be premature here, but in just two days, could it be helping?? It sort of seems so.

The thing is, Ive always know that this, for me, was brought upon by a lot of stress, relating way back to, but not limited to, childhood. UC has been brewing in me, I think, for decades. Actually I know. I had the lite version off and on many years before the big collapse. My main conflagration- the major flare- began many years ago after an *extremely* long and exhausting hike. Could a exercise related lack of Mg have been related? Then the copious diarrhea perpetuates it? Ive had some of the worst muscle cramps, especially when exercising, but even in bed, since UC has taken ahold of me. Hands and feet locking up- totally painful and weird.

Just thinking out loud, but it sort of seems to be helping. Maybe?

Anyway thanks OM always glad to hear your thoughts.
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