UC-Why there is no current medical cure.

I've never really completely understood why this stuff is so elusive and why they are not able to pin down more actual indisputable facts instead of continuing to conjure up theory after theory. They do colectomies and they do scientific research on cadavars. Why can't they take the removed colons from IBD patients and compare them to the colons of normal healthy persons who died in car accidents and nail down more actual facts? Right now they seem to just be guessing and guessing and theorizing and theorizing. Maybe they still couldn't figure out the root cause of the disease but it would go a long way to pin down more concrete facts to point them in the right directions and get better and better theories. It seems to me that by now they should know exactly what happens in IBD, even if they don't know the root cause of it.

OM - thanks for putting together a unifying theory of all the research you've done. To clarify a bit, do you think that something may cause an initial breach in the mucus barrier is what might cause biofilms to develop thus causing a chronically activated immune response?

gary - I feel like the answer to your question has so many factors. Limitations in technology, in funding, the relative rareness of IBD (especially UC), the fact that most of us are already stabilized on medication, UC not being a deadly disease, a lack of studies done on human tissue, not asking or answering the major questions about UC in studies, possibly inaccurate mouse models being the primary method of research, among many other things are just a few reasons why research seems to be dancing around answering the question of what causes UC.

Tunnel; Might be thousands of things that cause an initial breach, that is not repaired.
There is also probably something wrong with the innate immune response.
Weak mucus,antibiotics, genetics,diet,enviormental chemicals, you name it.
Could also be something stupid, like over fortification,supplements,not eating enough nitrates,not eating
enough sulfur veggies like cabbage.

What I wanted to accomplish is to show in pictures what is going on,without all the crazy biochemical, and immune/genetic/bacterial pathways clouding the issue.

In some kind of nutshell.

Mucus breach,weak innate immune response,bacteria penetrate mucosa and set up biofilm,immune system now gets really excited calls in everybody,once it has figured innate response failed, unable to clear bacteria,unable to clear the biofilm, tissue destruction,bleeding, collateral damage, and D as emergency physical flushing mechanism. Not necessarily in that order.

Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/12/2014 12:01:50 PM (GMT-7)

That biofilm is a dandy. Pouring undiluted Patron down there for a couple weeks mid summer did not distrupt it but instead ignited a flare and the only thing stopping the bleeding was switching back to sulfasalazine, the only thing making it normal is P-seed powder and Qing Dai, but if I go one meal without those two waste quality quickly degrades. Avoided navy beans because you once cautioned they should not be taken while flaring and frankly P-seed powder gets me the same result - butyrate. The cost of it is tasting dirt, thus I add orange flavored metamucil. 4:1 P-seed powder to metamucil. As long as I do that I am fine, added 10 lbs back. 20 away from personal best weight. 50 above worst weight. Thrilled I used no prednisone and saw no doctors. Seems true they are not seeking root cause, just better drugs to control reaction.

Not sure if I am violating the spirit of this thread by asking, but is there a product that goes after the biofilm on the market that looks promising? I have seen a couple that have a mix of systemic enzymes but have no idea whether they work.

I guess we are going to get into supplements one way or another.

Lactoferrin, NAC,EDTA, possibly mucinex, chlorine dioxide and a lot more I guess.

NAC and mucinex, break the sulfhydryl bonds in mucus and make it thinner, don't know if that is good

or bad in the case of UC.

I really did not want to get into chlorine dioxide really dangerous oxidizer.

But that being said, I have done it in the past orally, perhaps took too much to fast, irritated the hell

out of my colon.

All kinds of enzymes.

Here is something specific.

http://www.amazon.com/Klaire-Labs-InterFase-60-vcaps/dp/B003PQXC6A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1415806532&sr=8-3&keywords=interfase+klaire+labs

interfase

http://www.klaire.com/images/InterFase_Update.pdf

patent

http://www.google.com.ar/patents/US20090202516

Rope worms, autistic kids,chlorine dioxide.

The approach might work, but let me show you what they are doing to their colons.

These so called or real doctors perhaps have no real idea of what the hell they are doing.

Lots of parents seem to indicate that it does work,seems to me they really are expelling the biofilm.

But along with colon mucosa, is this safe. Seems a little dangerous,since there are plenty of examples of

soap,or chemically induced colitis,which of course may heal and not cause UC.

But then again, modern medicine has been treating UC empirically forever,these people are doing the same.

video

http://www.autismone.org/content/healing-autism-dr-kerri-rivera-0

Rope worms as you page down you will see rope worms.

http://ropeworms.com/

more rope worms

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/rope-worms-cest-la-merde/

What these people are doing with chlorine dioxide and other chemicals is possibly quite dangerous, rope worms really seem to be colon casts. Shedding of the intestine mucosal layers, the reason they do not dissolve in water is that it is colon tissue,or the biofilm matrix is not water soluble. I will admit biofilms will also be expelled but, destruction of the intestine outer surface seems extreme.
Old Mike

Most of these colon casts below are due to colon ischemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2813650/
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)60299-3/fulltext
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/dte/2011/498097/

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02236272

vitamin a and mucus

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6783082

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/23/2014 5:35:07 AM (GMT-7)

wasn't directed at you OM -

I see that for some reason there is low interest in this topic, of which I find amazing.
Feel free to poke holes, I am bound and determined to get to the bottom of UC.
Lets go into biofilm busting mode.
After that, attempt to determine what is wrong with the innate immune response.


That's the plan.
How you going to do it. I have no idea.



At least one danger, if you break the biofilms an your arteries, could get a heart attack.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-06-bacteria-stress-trigger-heart.html



Regardless here is something a little off the wall.

Fumarate reductase inhibitors.



http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-11-drug-periodontitis-chronic-diseases.html



Chalcones
LINK








http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24467530

spices herbes

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21184860



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4107204/


Side path:


Looks like crohns might have the same problem, and maltodextrin perhaps bad for UC also or a cause.

Quick switch to maltodextrin causing biofilm formation lots in the modern diet


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NARidHX46yoJ:www.plosone.org/article/info%253Adoi%252F10.1371%252Fjournal.pone.0052132+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


Oh boy: Maltodextrin causing some kind of mucus breakdown,I guess I will comment as soon as I read it.
Not sure of mechanism, but the bacteria are getting through the mucus layer,nice pictures, also inhibiting ROS
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25000398


ecoli and sticky maltodextrin biofilm
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/05/21/could-compound-in-artificial-sweeteners-worsen-crohns-disease


A little tiff between research doc's on biofilm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2000251/


natural biofilm spices herbs
http://www.formatex.info/microbiology4/vol1/32-41.pdf


what happens when a normal person drinks peg, and big mess in the gut bacteria




NAC and cipro
http://www.pjm.microbiology.pl/archive/vol5832009261.pdf


Nac and e
http://www.ascb.org/ascbpost/index.php/component/k2/item/204-controlling-levels-of-reactive-oxygen-species-weakens-bacterial-biofilms-and-breaks-cycle-of-unhealing-wounds


b12
http://iai.asm.org/content/80/5/1639.full


aspirin edta
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19302313


more on peg


drinking peg edit 2022 copy and paste
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055817+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 12/9/2022 10:59:16 AM (GMT-8)

So OM, do you think UC is something anyone can get, then? What do you think is/are the genetic defect(s) involved in someone getting UC? Are people without the genetics able to clear out/prevent the biofilms from forming in the distal colon? Also, why is it that UC starts distally under this theory? Isn't it possible that a mucus breach could happen anywhere in the colon and cause biofilm to form on the mucosa?

My apologies for not being more active, currently sick and have no appetite so my ability to read and research is not there right now.

Tunnel: I jus don't know it has taken me 34 years of research to figure this out.

The FISH probes for colon bacterial biofilms have not been around that long, but more progress should

by now have been made. They are still going for the treatment,way too many colons being lost.pisses me off to no end, I have small grandchildren.

Genetics play a part for sure.

My wife has risk factors, such as quitting smoking, drinking one or two diet pepsi a day,living with me, and no UC.

Her mother died of colon cancer at 52, my wife is close to 70, pristine colon as far as inflammation or polyps.

Myself and son have UC,but no allergies, my brother and daughter have allergies and no UC.

Perhaps I ate too much maltodextrin.

What is wrong with my innate immune system, no idea.

Mark: LOL

Old Mike

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/13/2014 9:03:24 PM (GMT-7)

Adrina: In the case of crohns, they can get people into remission by enteral feeding, but when they start normal food it can come back. But then again I don't really know if the biofilm is just suppressed or removed by enteral feeding, I also believe that there is an allergic component to IBD, so elimination of
food allergins/chemicals in the diet might have something to do with it.
Do I believe it can be starved out of the colon by a certain diet, no,but maltodextrin in the diet might
be a major problem at least in the small intestine.
The reason being, the biofilm can feed off of your own secretions such as mucus and byproducts of other
bacteria.
There is so much that is unknown.
Even if the biofilm is removed, can the colon produce enough of the right kind of mucus to prevent
a new biofilm forming, or is the innate immune response sufficient to prevent a new biofilm.

The reason we have UC in the first place is in my opinion, a mucus breach, whether the viscosity of the mucus was low, or not enough, don't know,perhaps you have a gut infection and massive D, which will wash away the outer mucus. If the mucus is not replaced fast enough, then your normal bacteria
might be able to get at the mucosa. If the innate immune response cannot clear the bacterial invasion
then,well you see the result, UC. I listed some biofilm treatments in one of my above posts.

Just to make this concept real easy to understand, once you have UC and a biofilm.

1. You can suppress the biofilm with antibiotics and or 5asa, the immune system calms down.

2 You can suppress the immune system.

3 You can suppress the biofilm and the immune system at the same time.

4 All or any of the above can lead to remission.

5. The biofilm is still attached to the colon mucosa=no medical cure.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/14/2014 3:02:22 PM (GMT-7)

Adrina:
I don't understand the meaning of your comment.
This is disillusioning
Old Mike