Vitamin B2-Faecalibacterium prausnitzii

Isn't there a You Tube video or TED talk with Larry Smarr where he talks about the importance of prausnitzii? I will look around and see what I can find. I am pretty sure it is at least 4 years old.

London: Believe you might be referring to where the immune cells sense bacterial B2,or precursers.
The study is somewhere I think in that old thread.
I have also just added a study to my first post on early onset crohns where there are too many
FP bacteria, and the docs don't know why, where in adults or after you have had crohns for some
time they are depleted. So the info is somewhat conflicting.
Old Mike

Here is something else on B2.

Seems like it makes 5asa drugs work better.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2576130

Thought I would also add this thread.
If you are going on a biologic vitamin B2 may make it work better.
If you also read above may make sulfa drugs also work better.
You will also read a way to feed Faecalibacterium prausnitzi is with B2.
This also suggests that since sulfalazine azo bond is broken more efficiently with
10mg/kg B2 then that means that more bacteria are growing or their metabolic rate is higher.
Interesting what you can find, hopefully 2+2=4.


Old Mike
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26896085

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/28/2016 2:57:58 PM (GMT-6)

Don't know London entyvio is different than tnf blocker.
But what they might be seeing is just an additional effect of increased
Faecalibacterium prausnitzi or less dysbiosis along with anti tnf,
so as we can see that with both biologics and traditional meds extra B2 seems to
be a common denominator.
Boy this stuff is hard to dig out and connect of course I find stuff when not looking, then
remember what I wrote a year ago, go figure.
Looks like you need at least 5mg/kg so for a 60kg person need at least 300mg b2 at once, of
which I have just taken. They had the best effect at 10mg/kg.
I have done some b2 in the past but not this much.
Upon more research in the patent one 100/mg pill should be enough.
OM

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/29/2016 1:48:15 PM (GMT-6)

do you think it's better to take vit b2 seperately or in a b-complex?

thanks :)

Iam: Good point.
OM.

From the patent looks like you can get away with 100mg a day, should be enough

Example 1: Riboflavin intervention trial. A human intervention study was performed to investigate the effect of riboflavin on the numbers of Faecalibacterium prausnitzii in the gut. A group of 8 volunteers (body weight 60 to 90 kg) were asked to take 1 oral dose of 100 mg riboflavin supplement per day for 14 days.

Two samples were taken in a period of two weeks before the intake, as baseline samples, two samples (one per week) were taken during the intake and one sample a week after intake. The number of F. prausnitzii and that of other bacterial groups were determined by FISH with a specific probes as describe before (Harmsen et al. Appl Environ Microbiol. 2002 Jun; 68(6):2982-90). The numbers of faecalibacteria of the samples taken before and during the intake were averaged and all samples were plotted in Figure 1. The results show that in all volunteers tested, except for individual 7, the number of faecalibacteria increased during intake and decreased again when the intake ceases.

The number of F. prausnitzii also increased relatively to the other bacteria in the feces. The percentage F. prausnitzii increased in 7 out of 8 samples upon riboflavin intake. Other groups of bacteria, such as the butyrate producing Clostridium group XlVa did not increase (Fig. 2). The ratio faecalibacteria/CZosindiwm group XlVa, calculated from before and from during intake, increased in all cases, showing a relative increase of faecalibacteria. Also, the numbers of two potentially pathogenic bacteria were counted, such as Enterobacteriaceae, E. coli-like bacteria of which E. coli is the most abundant in the gut, and Enterococci. This last group was only detected in very low numbers that did not increase during the intervention. The number of E. coli showed much variation among the samples (Fig. 3). However, the number decreased or remained the same during riboflavin intake in all individuals tested. In addition, an inverse relation was detected between the numbers of faecalibacteria and E. coli- like bacteria (Fig 3, lower panel). When E. coli was high, the number of faecalibacteria was relatively low. This situation improved i.e. the ratio shifted towards faecalibacteria, upon administration of riboflavin.

there also might be a tie in with the vinegar thread F. prausnitzii is an acetate consumer
www.nature.com/ismej/journal/v6/n8/full/ismej20125a.html#bib25

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/30/2016 6:43:05 AM (GMT-6)

London, the thread is incredibly interesting, i've just read it very carefully though, i must admit, lots of things mentioned there were much above my head :) You write: "lower levels of riboflavin in the body leads to lower levels of creatinine", it's very interesting because i also have my creatinine in the lower levels. Still i can't make up my mind whether to take b2 alone or in a b-complex because long time ago (before uc) i had to stop taking vit b complex as i had some issues but i don't remember now what it really was. On the other hand, what IamCurious says makes sense and i don't want to create imbalance

The path gets even more interesting, FP can metabolize salicin to salicylic acid.
You can get white willow bark supplements, from what I read will not thin blood.
So if the immune system has not killed off all FP, then we have a chance to supply our own
5-asa type drug to the colon. Of course you also need B2 to help them survive the high oxygen tension
from inflammation.


Old Mike
mbio.asm.org/content/6/2/e00300-15.full

Based on our metabolomic approach, we identified metabolites specifically associated with the presence of F. prausnitzii. These findings support the concept that beneficial effects from commensals are linked to their large metabolic impact on host physiology. In fact, salicylic acid, at a concentration close to the one detected in the colon, decreased IL-8 production in vitro (Fig. 5). Interestingly, 40% of Fusobacterium prausnitzii (former nomenclature for F. prausnitzii) strains were able to ferment salicin, an alcoholic β-glucoside that can be converted into salicylic acid (36). In the pharmaceutical industry, salicylic acid is the precursor of 5-ASA, a drug used in the treatment of IBD (37). We showed that salicylic acid was as effective as 20 mM 5-ASA in vitro (38).

I also see someone on healingwell beat me to it by years
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2259890

here we go mouse DSS model
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24240229

someone thinks B2 might be important not yet started clinical trial for crohns
/clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02538354

but there is always confounding info
eprints.bham.ac.uk/563/

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/30/2016 12:12:38 PM (GMT-6)