For those supplementing vitamin D....do you supplement K as well?

I am curious about this. I am pretty darned low on D based on my recent blood work (at 34 right now). So when my flare started I must have been SUPER low (I've been supplementing it awhile).

In fact, I am now thinking it may have played a role in my flare starting and refusing to abate for those 19+ months.....but I digress. This is about vitamins.

I just ordered a vitamin K complex to take along with my 10, 000 IU vitamin D per day ( 5 days per week).

The K complex contains :

k1 as phytonadone. 1000 mcg
K2 as menaquione-4 1000 mcg
K2 as menaquione -7 200 mcg
Ascorbyl palmitate 25 mg
Vit C as Ascorbyl palmitate 10 mg
Other ingredients Extra virgin olive oil, gelatin, glycerin, beeswax, purified water, carob coloring.

It sounds like these two vitamins have a very intertwined synergy with one another and it's well known that vitamin D is important to immune health.

This statement kind of caught my eye......since I have been supplementing vitamin D without the K for a week or so now (in my new higher daily IU anyway) :

"More recent research into vitamin K has shown that it can greatly enhance vitamin D’s benefits and that vitamin D actually has a dependency on vitamin K. In fact, low vitamin K2 levels cause vitamin D toxicity, which can lead to inappropriate calcification and then to hardening of the arteries. The reason is due to the fact that taking in vitamin D causes the body to create more vitamin K2-dependent proteins that move calcium throughout the body. If you do not have enough vitamin K2, those proteins remain inactivated. So remember, if you supplement with vitamin D, you’re creating an increased demand for K2." (Source)

And also these vitamins are associated with moving calcium around and I read here that excessive calcium can be a bad thing........hells bells........am I overthinking again?

EDITING : for clarity about which vitamin is which

ya, try to avoid the standard willy-nillyish approach - mucho better to have your levels checked - gives more precise willy-nillyissim -

I wouldnt.....why do you think you need it?
And you dont need 10,000 of d daily either unless you have none at all in your system
q

Poppie, I'd like to see what you have about this !


I think that low vitamin D levels are pretty bad, too. This article (and others I've read also) say to shoot for 60-90 ng/mL (I am currently at 34). I don't intend to supplement for life, but I sure am going to supplement until I am in that range.

"Clearly Vitamin D plays a huge role in your body, and it is important to maintain sufficient levels to prevent infectious disease and autoimmune disease. So how do you ensure that your Vitamin D levels are high enough?

Your Vitamin D3 levels should be around 60-90 ng/mL and can be tested by your regular doctor. If your levels are below the recommended range, I would recommend taking 5,000 daily IU of a high-quality Vitamin D3/K2 supplement for adults."

http://www.amymyersmd.com/2016/06/vitamin-d/

And vitamin K is incredibly helpful to the D3 and calcium trio for absorption. She says " Your body uses Vitamin D to absorb calcium, but it needs Vitamin K to ensure that the calcium ends up in your bones, instead of in your arteries".

My micro biome is screwed up and it's the gut bugs that produce some forms of vitamin K. I just want to be sure (for now) that I am getting an adequate supply.

She also says "If you have been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, it is possible that low Vitamin D levels may be playing a role in your condition, so be sure to have your physician check your levels and aim for 60-90 ng/mL ."

I won't be overdoing it though, you guys. I'll be keeping an eye on it.....like stated here:

"Since Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin it gets stored in our body and too much can build up over time. If you are supplementing with high doses (over 5,000 daily IU), I recommend that you get your blood levels checked every 3 -6 months while supplementing."

I will make sure my MD is onboard with this supplementing. She was the one who informed me a few years ago I was low on it and suggested supplementing. I dropped the ball by not doing so and not following up on it. I had no idea how serious the ramifications could be!

TroubledTurds said...

but ......... then you have to determine which study to believe as to how much the average human person needs ????

good luck

OMG....ain't that the truth? if one digs around the internet long enough.....one can find any supportive statement one wishes for even the most ridiculous of stances. Frustrating and comforting both.

I feel pretty solid about this choice though. Sometimes we need to allow our intuition to assist us, despite it being unprovable. I have been drawn to this information before.....and ignored it.

There is quite a bit of vitamin K in the homemade kefir I am making (and vitamin D) so I don't plan on using the fake stuff for too long. I just want to assure that I am in the normal ranges.....and I guess, like you TT, I may not have any "aha" moments about what these are accomplishing.

Even so.....my mood feels so much improved with this one week of D supplementing. I love the sunshine, too and spend at least an hour out there a day .......even more proof that I must have been uber low to only now be at 34 !

Hi Poppie,

Well, like you say, I think I developed UC due to a genetic glitch that causes my immune system to over react to normal intestinal happenings.

That said, sometimes there might be "triggers" that we can begin to recognize and create a plan to avoid them in the future. Some we can't control, but some we can.

Vitamin D levels and keeping my immune system well maintained is something I plan on studying more about. I know for a fact that I have been affected by my low D levels in other ways, too. I live in a Northern climate and get very little sun for 8 months---this affects my mood. And I don't like milk.

As an eternal optimist I have had a challenge the last couple years especially !

I am putting my case together to have my K tested. If I can provide a few well written articles about the reasons this is important, my doctor is very good about listening to me.

In order for proper assimilation of calcium, we need that trio. Improperly absorbed calcium can be an issue for someone with IBD and all of these nutrients work in concert to accomplish that. With a messed up bacterial balance, I am not sure I actually am getting the proper K .....we'll see.

I won't over supplement. I have my eyes on it.

Hey, on a side note---I quit smoking about a year before my diagnosis, too. So maybe nicotine was an "immunomodulator" in my case? maybe UC would have presented earlier, had I not smoked?

I took 3x 3000 IU a day for a month (so 9000 IU a day in total), but my vitamin D was pretty low at 10ng/ml. No idea what it is now - I don't really wanna pay another £30 to find out - but over the winter I'm going to take a maintenance dose of 3000 IU a day and test my levels again next spring.

I'm a bit worried about the vitamin K part. A very brief google informs me that science doesn't have a clue yet, but one day it might: www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-and-vitamin-k#section4

Think I will pick up a vitamin K supplement anyway. Or a multi-vitamin supplement which includes vitamin K.

Marjie - I'm taking a vitamin D spray, which bypasses the GI tract completely. (I dread to think what state my gut bacteria are in: it must be a state of anarchy in whatever remains of my colon/rectum.) This one:

/betteryou.com/dlux3000

The site claims it's better absorbed. I dunno whether that's really true or not, but at least it's posted a few studies to back up its claim. They don't have a vitamin K spray, but their multi-vitamin spray includes K1. (I don't know how important K2 is, 'cos that's not included.)

Yes, but the amount of vitamin K absorbed from those greens is supposedly very small (like 10%).

Taking lots of vitamin D without vitamin K present can cause more problems than good.....that can be kind of dangerous from what I've read.

As always....we need to operate in our own ways. But for sure getting it checked is key .

EDIT: I guess I shouldn't say any of this as if it's known facts....there seem to be so so many differing opinions. The bottom line is that I just want to feel safe.....

Post Edited (MarjieKay) : 8/4/2017 9:56:29 AM (GMT-6)

Thanks straydog. I would love to read any and all info pertinent to this.

My vitamin D is low based on the blood test I just had a few weeks ago, hence my supplementation. My vitamin K, on the other hand, wasn't checked (yet) it will be though.

My feeling is that for as short as I plan to implement this, I'll be ok no matter what. I'll be having the levels checked in a couple weeks.....

ncot..I'm worried now about my vitamin K levels! it seems like its quite important.

Fortunately, I can eat some nuts and so I discovered that Pine Nuts and Cashew nuts are very high in vitamin K and so that's how I am going to supplement.

www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=48140

The interview said...
David: What are cofactors and what are the vitamin D cofactors?

Dr. Cannell: Cofactors are nutrients that work together to make sure that every nutrient you intake is acting as best it can in the body. For example, I recommend vitamin K2 as a cofactor, at least 80 ug/day, because it helps place calcium in the right spots in the body. So if you’re taking vitamin D for better calcium absorption, you should take K2 to make sure that calcium is going to the right spots.

The same applies for all the other vitamin D cofactors: magnesium (about 500 mg/day), zinc (about 10 mg/day) and boron (about 2 mg/day). These all interact with vitamin D in the body in various ways.

David: Do you have a specific vitamin D supplement you recommend and why that one?

Dr. Cannell: Any reputable brand from your local drugstore will do. Just be sure it is at least 5,000 IU/day. I also have no specific recommendations for cofactors.

David: What is your feeling on Cod Liver Oil as a source of vitamin D for someone with Inflammatory Bowel Disease?

I don’t think cod liver oil is good to consume. While it may have some vitamin D in it, I think it has too much vitamin A, maybe even to a toxic extent.

Post Edited (xy123) : 8/4/2017 6:35:08 PM (GMT-6)

I read the whole conversation; it was quite interesting. Purely on an anecdotal level, I can say that Vitamin D has got rid of the aches and soreness I was experiencing in my neck and shoulders, but it doesn't appear to have done a thing for my abdominal symptoms :-/ Still, despite Crohn's being linked with vitamin D deficiency, I would have been shocked if vitamin D had got me in remission: that would have been far too easy.

@Poppie - I love pine nuts and cashews. (Pro-tip: toast some pine nuts for 5 minutes and then bung them into salads.) Sadly they don't love me in return, but a handful of cashews probably wouldn't be worse for me than a small bag of crisps.

@Marjie - I would prefer the spray to pills even if it wasn't absorbed any better. It's pleasant enough tasting and for some reason it's easier to remember to do a quick spray than it is to get a glass of water and take a pill. I'm just disappointed the site's multivitamin spray has K1 in it instead of K2. I was reading about it last night and it is clear that K2 is the one you need for redistributing calcium to the right places, not K1. (Plus I'm a bit concerned about the clotting effects of K1. As somebody who has had high platelets in the past and may still have high platelets, I don't think it's a good idea to boost the clotting abilities of my blood.)