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Remicade levels low and antibodies present
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Ulcerative Colitis
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Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 12/30/2019 2:03 PM (GMT 0)
I've been off pred for a week now and UC symptoms came back last night. I don't think the Humira is doing anything. I just sent a message to my doctor. I don't know how I am supposed to go through months of waiting for Entyvio to work (if I try that next) if I can't take prednisone due to my low bone density.
notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 17890
Posted 12/30/2019 3:30 PM (GMT 0)
That is up to you really. I was in a similar situation, refused pred because of the negative side effects, and I didn't want to wait too long to get my life back. Eventually, I opted for surgery. I tried Entvio, which was kind of a waste of time for me because I was already struggling for so long and I didn't want to wait a long time. Fortunately for me, I was somewhat stable when I began entyvio and I was able to refuse steroids... things just got worse for me while on Entyvio. If I were in your shoes, I might skip Entyvio for the moment and try xeljanz - that appears to work a bit faster. A lot of people on entyvio who have been successful seem to be less severe cases, and they waited quite a while for a response. Have you had stool tests? There is always uceris? You could ask about
tacrolimus but they would likely have to admin that while you're an inpatient in the hospital. I am not sure why they even bothered with humira in your case, you would have been better off trying something else with the limited time you have. You've been sick, and on pred, way too long.
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 12/30/2019 5:09 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you. I need to research Xeljanz because I know next to nothing about
it. I'm a bit scared of it from some things I heard here, but I will research it. Uceris never did anything for me. I haven't had stool tests yet. I'm waiting to hear from my doctor. I took a Tramadol and feel ok right now, but if I get real bad again, those probably won't make a huge dent in my pain and other symptoms either.
My doctor gave me the option of Humira, Entyvio or Xeljanz. I chose Humira because I thought Entyvio might take too long and my doctor only has one patient on Xeljanz and I didn't want to feel like a guinea pig. This is a bummer because Humira was super convenient for me to do. I wish I hadn't wasted a month feeling horrible on Imuran. My UC was pretty easy to treat for so many years, I don't feel ready for surgery at all... But yeah, I don't know how I could function waiting for months while in a bad flare if I can't take pred (which I really don't want to take because of my bones). Why isn't life easy?! Lol.
notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 17890
Posted 12/30/2019 7:14 PM (GMT 0)
I probably would have done the same since you initially responded to remicade. It seemed like maybe the humira would work, but I guess now that we know about
your bones, we are finding that time is of the essence. Realistically, your colon you can live without, but your bones, if they fail, you're in trouble. I am sure something will work. I personally would go to xeljanz before entyvio. You don't want to be on prednisone any longer than you have to. Request stool tests when you speak with the doctor.
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 12/30/2019 7:31 PM (GMT 0)
My doctor wrote me back and said we should try to tie me over with Uceris until we see if the Humira is working. It was a previous GI who had me take Uceris years ago so he probably doesn't know it never worked for me. I guess I'll try it again though. He also said we should do an antibody and trough level after 6 weeks (which is now). Then he asked me if I was also on Imuran. Lol. He must have forgotten. I realize he probably has a ton of patients.
Thank you so much for your responses and advice. It really helps having someone who has been through all of this to bounce ideas off of and get advice! You're right...my bone health has to be a major consideration now.
Do you think I should get a c diff. test or calprotectin? I haven't really seen any blood yet. Maybe just a bit of pink on the t.p.
ld2186
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2018
Posts : 67
Posted 12/30/2019 11:47 PM (GMT 0)
Sara, How frequently are you taking the Humira? I had to go up to weekly injections to get a good result. My GI tells me that 40% of UC patients need weekly injections.
I would get the bloodwork first. Don’t give up hope just yet!
Best,
Lisa
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 12/31/2019 12:40 AM (GMT 0)
Every other week. I thought it only worked in like 18 percent of UCers. That's what I read from the trials. Yeah, I'll get the bloodwork, which I'm sure will take weeks. I'm really, really scared I'm soon going to be suffering a lot. :/
notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 17890
Posted 12/31/2019 3:48 AM (GMT 0)
I would do both calprotectin and c diff. Why not? Try not to stress. I don't think trying uceris again is a bad option. I just don't want to see you stay on pred for too long when your bones are already struggling. I also know surgery isn't the most appealing option in the world. If I could have avoided it, I would have. Though I say that, I can tell you, I just went out for many hours and didn't think about
UC for a second. At the same time, I will probably wake up in the night and go to the toilet at least once, which I hate, and I don't want that for you, but at the same time, there are worse things!! it's a really tough situation. This whole UC thing is awful. I wish I could tell you what is right, or what's best, but all I can say is that you need to do what is best for you. I wish my situation didn't come to surgery, but at the same time, I am thankful I am where I am. I guess you have to take it easy, give humira a bit of time, then be ready to move. I'd consult with a surgeon too just in case. Good to have a plan even if you never intend to use it. I am happy you find my info helpful. I was worried I might have been harsh earlier. I never want to be harsh. I just don't want you to be blindsided by this illness. it's so easy for things to happen quickly. fingers crossed for a quick recovery!
CCinPA
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 2813
Posted 12/31/2019 10:25 AM (GMT 0)
So sorry to hear this, Sara. Is it possible it's an ordinary gastro bug? I ask, because it's the season for that and I am just recovering from one I caught over Christmas (the long term care home my 93 year old mother lives in had a widespread outbreak, I was careful when visiting her, but apparently not careful enough). If it's a bug, things should get better in a few days.
If it's not a bug, I think I would try xeljanz next because it works quicker than Entyvio and you want to try to avoid pred.. You could also try weekly Humira. That does the trick for some people.
This is the period I hate -- when you know something is wrong, but you have to wait for tests and approvals etc. If you do decide to try xeljanz most docs get samples that you could try while waiting tor insurance approvals.
You could also try hydrocortisone enemas. They work better for me than Rowasa when I have symptoms. They are a steroid, but are topical so don't have the systemic effects pred has. Hopefully that would be enough to hold you until you get the correct med to get you to remission.
Hope that the new year brings you to that promised land!!
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 12/31/2019 1:45 PM (GMT 0)
No, it's not a bug. I got off the pred and my symptoms predictably returned. I doubt it's c-diff either because of the timing with pred. I've actually never had a stomach bug since getting UC.
I have to wait until right before my next injection to do the bloodwork to see if Humira is working, so that's two weeks right there. Then probably a week to get the results. Isnt it clear it's not working since I have symptoms? The amount of time we are told to just wait and suffer with this disease is just unreal. They need to figure out better treatment options. No one seems to care that we are just told to wait weeks or months to see if something will work. I could have at least had one good month on pred if I hadn't suffered through that Imuran.
Last night I woke up 3 or 4 times to pee so waking up at night is normal for me. I just worry about
having a bag and what if something went wrong and I was stuck with one. Plus I read about
all the complications people post here. Dont I have to try all these meds before surgery would be covered anyway or no? Plus everyone here freaked me out telling me I have to travel to a big city for the surgery and I really dont want to do that. Cleveland is a 6-hour drive. Chicago is 4 hours but I hate it there. I wanted to have the rectal surgeon I already have do it if I ever had to.
iPoop
Forum Moderator
Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 16483
Posted 12/31/2019 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
I wouldn't assume a colorectal surgery is a foregone conclusion. All you have tried is two TNF-alphas: remicade and humira. The meds are so darn similar, that they often act similar. If it comes to a Humira failure then going to another class of biologics with entirely different mechanisms of action like Xeljanz, Stelara, or Entyvio makes sense. It's frustrating waiting, hoping, and failing things. I wish there was an easy-button to all of this, but sadly there is a lot of getting stuck in the mud/crap and struggling to get through it all.
Some do try all of the meds, some do not. It really depends on current quality of life and how much you are suffering. Easy to try everything with only mild impact of quality of life. Being repeatedly hospitalized with no quality of life makes it easier to throw in the towel a lot earlier. I do not believe a surgeon would touch you, unless you've failed at least two classes of biologics (you are at one class only at this point).
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 12/31/2019 4:36 PM (GMT 0)
Ok, thank you. Sorry, was a bit crabby/frustrated this morning. I haven't gotten bad at all yet, so maybe it will be fine.
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 1/1/2020 6:30 AM (GMT 0)
Should I even take the Uceris or will that be too bad for my bones too? I can't sleep because my gut hurts too bad.
Great way to start a new year.
CCinPA
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 2813
Posted 1/1/2020 1:35 PM (GMT 0)
Uceris isn't released until it's in the colon and is mostly topical rather than systemic. I doubt that you could absorb enough to affect your bones at all.
Uceris works best for mild flares. The longer you wait to start taking it the less the chances are that it will help if your flare worsens.
Waiting is always the hardest. This disease is a never ending lesson in patience that's for sure.
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 1/1/2020 4:56 PM (GMT 0)
There's a warning on it that says tell your doctor if you have osteoporosis. I'm sure some of it is absorbed.
Yeah, I don't really ever have mild flares. Uceris only worked in 18 percent of people in the trials. That's not good odds. And it didn't do anything for me last time I tried it. The hydrocort enemas made me worse last time I used them, so I'm not doing them again. These med options we have suck.
iPoop
Forum Moderator
Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 16483
Posted 1/2/2020 4:00 PM (GMT 0)
Uceris is about
90% topical and 10% systematic. Whereas pred is 100% systematic and it is that systematic affect that impacts our bones. Uceris is the lesser of two evils regarding calcium-depletion but is not totally free of that damage.
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 1/2/2020 4:05 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you... Took first dose this morning. Still not sure I want to/should though. I don't think it's going to work anyway based off past experiences. I see the bone and joint doctor tomorrow. I'll ask for his input. I have a list of questions for him. Lol. None of my T-scores got much worse at all except the right hip/femoral neck. I'm wondering if being in the walking boot could have also had an impact because I read that makes you lose bone density and it's just kind of odd that is the only place I significantly worsened. I might be way off base though. I really don't know what I'm talking about
.
I'm really glad I have Tramadol at least. I'm bleeding now, too. Good times. Lol.
iPoop
Forum Moderator
Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 16483
Posted 1/2/2020 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
Uceris is also intended for only mild inflammation. If your inflammation is on the severe side then it is about
as effective a sparrow's-fart against an oncoming hurricane.
Sara14
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7914
Posted 1/2/2020 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
Hahaha. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought...
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