I eat 30-40 grams for bean fiber a day. YES you read that right, gas producing bean fiber. Why?

Seems so counter intuitive from those that have swallowed the flawed logic of the SCD diet doesn't it? However according to those scd bible thumpers I should be in the midst of a full blown flare by now if you believe the hype. But obviously that's not the case when I consume in total about 50+ grams of fiber from various sources per day. 30 -40 grams from beans and 10 from inulin and then all the misc fiber from other foods. I feel no pain, I have some mild mild gas. I have no painful bowel movements. I go once a day. My stools are formed and I have no bleeding. Still only take asacol.

Contemplate this over some boba tea with tapioca.

People who have yeast and are trying to get rid of it shouldn't do anything like that kind of diet. I think the reason why SCD works for alot of people is because they have yeast they don't know about and are starving it.

I don't do the SCD diet, but it's somewhat like it minus more yeast/mold based foods. I do this because I did a lab test and it shows I have dividing yeast.

Things work for some as they do others. You are pretty out of context when you call people SCD bible thumpers because you don't agree it with.

Also, for as long as I've known you, you've always said you've been in remission. That's more than a year I've been seeing you on various forums. So, there it is again. You're telling people what they should try or do with random ideas you have when you yourself aren't going through what they are, but have gone through it before.

People in remission trying something and having fun with it, doesn't mean people in a flare or active disease should try it based off your recommendation.

My 2 cents..

It's because you really have to a stick to it. You can't try it a week or two and come to a conclusion it isn't working.

Horus said...
Seems so counter intuitive from those that have swallowed the flawed logic of the SCD diet doesn't it? However according to those scd bible thumpers I should be in the midst of a full blown flare by now if you believe the hype.

You destroy your credibility when you come on a forum claiming to have the secret that works for everyone. You make it worse when you attack a contradictory viewpoint, calling it "flawed logic" and the people who have benefited from it "bible thumpers." Then you make a statement that is untrue... not all beans are disallowed on the diet.

There is no one magic solution that works for everyone. We all have different symptoms and are at different points in our path toward healing. Some of us (myself included) aren't even sure of our diagnosis. Gut problems can stem from a variety of causes... antibiotic use, imbalance of good/bad gut bacteria, overgrowth of candida, food allergies/sensitivities, undiagnosed celiac disease... and the list goes on.

If you want to be taken seriously, present your ideas and personal experience in a moderate, respectful way.

Horus said...
 Everyone here would be on the SCD diet if it worked.

Not true. Alot of people would like to belive diet doesn't help because they have weak will power to stick to a diet.

I used to be that way and I would feel better when others chimed in "Diet doesn't help we're all different." So I wouldn't even give it a shot because it was too hard to get away from foods that you find everyday so easy to get. You don't want to stop eating breads and snack foods because they're everywhere.

Some people choose that diet isn't the answer after like a week trying it and start having cravings for things they used to eat.

Eric704 said...
People who have yeast and are trying to get rid of it shouldn't do anything like that kind of diet. I think the reason why SCD works for alot of people is because they have yeast they don't know about and are starving it.

I don't do the SCD diet, but it's somewhat like it minus more yeast/mold based foods. I do this because I did a lab test and it shows I have dividing yeast.

Things work for some as they do others. You are pretty out of context when you call people SCD bible thumpers because you don't agree it with.

Also, for as long as I've known you, you've always said you've been in remission. That's more than a year I've been seeing you on various forums. So, there it is again. You're telling people what they should try or do with random ideas you have when you yourself aren't going through what they are, but have gone through it before.

People in remission trying something and having fun with it, doesn't mean people in a flare or active disease should try it based off your recommendation.

My 2 cents..

Erik/scooter,

So where's my public apology you owe me? If you want to comment on my postings have the decency to apologize like you said you would. I'm waiting...

I still take my phosphatidylcholine enemas as needed. Nothing has changed at all. My goal is to get my asacol down to 800 mg per day. I'm almost there with all the things I do. Of course I'm in remission. As you clearly missed in my above post I recommend SLOWLY adding beans and resistant starches to the diet. I had a ton of gas when I was in a full blown flare. What is it to add just a tiny amount of inulin and beans and resistant starch to the diet and build slowly, slowly up from that? Name another way to add butyrate to the diet without doing enemas with it? you can't. You MUST use resistant starches period end of story. Butyrate should be your preferred fuel source for the colon, NOT glucose or fructose like the SCD. The colon use and needs butyrate first. It also needs antioxidants in abundance because of all the oxidation going on. It also needs the mucus barrier to be of a specific viscosity to keep the irritants and bacteria from breaching into the colon wall iteself. You also need to learn about how to prevent colon cancer through food. Beans do all of this. Most of the recommended food in the scd diet miss all this. Could you be following a diet that increases your risk of colon cancer? One that ignores butyrate, antioxidants, and lipids could I think. Her diet is incomplete and wrong and needs a revision in my opinion.

You cling onto yeast as the end all be all of causes for IBD symptoms. You will NEVER EVER be able to EVER avoid yeast period. There is no point in trying a diet that is devoid of yeast. Yeast extracts I avoid in my food as they are immune stimulating, yet yeast is all over us and our food and there is no way to clean it off or avoid it. You cannot sterilize your food of yeast. You wouldn't feel the effects of yeast if you had a proper mucus barrier in your colon. Yeast are opportunistic and frequently give aids patients thrush and people with cancer get thrush also. Yet almost none of them spontaneously develop IBD. Do yourself a favor and drop the yeast connection. It's a dead end. It's mainly hyped by people pushing supplements.

People in a flare or active disease should try every so slowly to add resistant starches to their diet. You mistaken the assumption that people should start consuming 50 grams of fiber a day right off the bat. Wrong. Start out with mabye 2-4 grams. Then as pain and symptoms permit slowly increase this over the weeks and months till you can get up to 40 - 50 grams. Butyrate not glucose should be your road to remission. Avoiding resistant starches in the colon sets up a lack of butyrate and that can lead to colon cancer. No one here needs that increased more than they already have. Butyrate producing foods in your diet decreases many inflammatory molecules. No one with mad gas will notice a bit more gas from some tiny amounts of bean fiber.
I was getting my butyrate from psyllium husk and inulin before. Bean fiber is a much better choice.

Horus...I have kept my mouth shut w/ some of your posts lastely but feel the need to post now. If you have a problem w/ any of my comments feel free to hit the admin alert and let Peter our founder know.

You post things that will encourage debate. I like debate. Especially intellectual one. But I think you are missing the point of what a true debate is. Just like everyone else you have strong feelings about your beliefs. On the other hand, believe it or not, other members feel adamently about their beliefs. If you don't want to hear other opinions then don't post these types of topics.


If you are going to continue to post debate type topics I encourage you to a. expect others to both agree and disagree. b. don't be petty and put other people down and c. remember we are ALL entitled to our individual opinions and should be allowed to post w/out the fear that you will disparage what we say.

Horus,
I don't care if you're tactful or not. You provide good information, present a well researched perspective and get people thinking. That is more beneficial towards getting to the root causes of this disease than being sweet and nice all the time. I think you may be on to something here with the resistant starch approach.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/resistantstarch.htm

http://news.nationalstarch.com/NewsStory.asp?newsItemId=358

To princesa,

For all your statements I see no evidence to contradict what I've said. You tell me WHY and I'll listen to your points if they have merit. Where is your logic and reason? What points support your thesis? I've been attacked by SCD fanatics before and they certainly do deserve the title of bible thumpers in my opinion. They are rabid in their devotion and strangely so for none of them have ever put up any kind of supporting evidence to back themselves. It's really funny to watch really.

Thinking that there have been no further understanding of IBD since her 1978 degre is laughable. That was so 30 years ago. Would you drive a 30 yr old car that had 30 yr old brakes? I don't trust my life on information about ibd that is 30 yrs old. Look at the progress since then. If anyone should be getting the "everyone is different and everyone reacts differently" it should be Ellaine Gottschall.

For those that have blind faith in the SCD diet your time is up you've had your say and for far too long. It's time to toss aside your stale ideas unfounded in any published science papers and approach this with eyes wide open and with science to back it up. It's time for you to sit down and be quiet and learn. Some of you we will have to drag kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

I have the book right here princesa so any time you want to debate what she says about being fanatical about complex carbs, resistant starches and bacteria/yeast go ahead and post away. Try to use a source OTHER than her book to back up any claims of fact. Her book is theory and should be treated as such. Time for a new theory. She's had 30 years to prove it and failed.

Yes I know all about white beans. That is my point. She is contradictory in her suggestions. Her recommendations make no sense when her goal is to AVOID sugars from getting into the colon where she thinks it will be fermented into volatile fatty acids that aren't good for the colon. WRONG. Someone should have introduced her to the term butyrate and it's importance to the colon wall. Just look at how haphazard she is in recommending this sugar and not that etc...http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/legal/legal_illegal_a-c.htm

I understand what she is going for but see her logic as flawed if she wants to avoid sugars going into the colon. Bean starch will go directly to the colon even if beans are soaked overnight. Beans are her accidental saving grace. It's the butyrate from the lentils and beans that are the magic of her diet more than anything else. For that is a true contradiction when you tell people to avoid complex carbs because they may ferment in the colon and then advocate beans and lentils in the same diet. She can't have it both ways. Here is a quote from her about how she feels about glucose, ATP and the need to keep sugars from going into the colon, "For those of you who have had any biochemistry or cellular nutrition, the molecule of glucose has the potential of allowing each cell to manufacture 38 molecules of cellular energy or ATP (adenosine triphosphate). If we do not absorb the glucose molecules (from starch, disaccharides, or even monosaccharides) from our absorptive small intestine, they go down to the microbial world. There, very INEFFICIENT anerobic bacteria get only 2 molecules of the possible 38 and pass the rest off as volatile fatty acids. What is happening to these volatile fatty acids. Are we passing them out as diarrhea contents? Are some being absorbed through the ileum wall and colonic wall? I do not know. I would doubt it very much if much of them are being absorbed. Once you change the digestive process by starving out the critters and absorbing the legal sugars more efficiently, you will then be getting our HUMAN DIGESTION working correctly and our cells will get 38 molecules of ATP from one molecule of glucose."

Her mistake is that she believes not only that lack of ATP is to blame but also that all resistant sugars get turned into a bad volatile fatty acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Link&db=PubMed&dbFrom=PubMed&from_uid=14988436

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17044771&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=12221249&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

That should give you enough to chew on for awhile.

KJ35 said...
Horus,
I don't care if you're tactful or not. You provide good information, present a well researched perspective and get people thinking. That is more beneficial towards getting to the root causes of this disease than being sweet and nice all the time. I think you may be on to something here with the resistant starch approach.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/resistantstarch.htm

http://news.nationalstarch.com/NewsStory.asp?newsItemId=358

Why thank you. You see sanity does exist on this board. LOL Good links. I couldn't have said it better myself. Makes alot of sense when you read it. Then when you realize you don't need
an ambulance after you've eaten 40 grams of it is exciting. So many health benefits to bean fiber it's hard to imagine life without them. I posted about resistant starches (inulin) before for those that don't want
to try the phosphatidylcholine enemas since it does somewhat thicken the colon mucus. You can't ignore your colon mucus viscosity and butyrate. You will always feel symptoms if you ignore these two things.

Let's not forget about the antioxidants in beans also. 1/2 cup of red beans has more antioxidants per serviing than 1 whole cup of blueberries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_radical_absorbance_capacity

Thanks for the info. Horus. I love beans and used to eat a lot of them before getting UC so I'm glad to hear they may help with my symptoms. Are there certain kinds that are better than others? I mostly eat garbanzo (chickpeas) and black beans...sometimes kidney beans as well. And where do you get inulin? I know it's in Stoneyfield Farms yogurt, but where else can you get it? Do you have any links where I can read more about the benefits of butyrate and inulin? I had never heard of this before your post and would like to learn more.

I appreciate your posts. Thank you.

Horus is speaking truth-- there are tons of studies on the positive effects of butyrate (and other short chain fatty acids) on colitis. It's a darn shame most of our doctors don't prescribe butyrate enemas instead of resorting to steroids. They work especially well in combination with 5-ASA enemas, according to studies.

As for how to get resistant starch-- bananas provide half as much resistant starch as a 1/2 cup of beans (e.g., navy) and double that of 1/2 cup of lentils... so if you don't want to deal with beans, eat bananas-- the greener, the better (for this purpose).