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seeking member "Baza" about his redo and undiagnosed motility problem

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Posted 7/29/2014 4:44 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Baza, just read your post on somones thread about your redo and undiagnosed motility problem.

I was just wondering if you could share a little more of that with me. thanks!
Posted 7/29/2014 5:45 PM (GMT 0)
Hi charliessjin, yes no problem,what are you wanting to know?
I basically had a full 360 nissen done back in 2012 which caused me nothing but trouble,i had to go to another surgeon to get it sorted. Barry
Posted 7/29/2014 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Barry, Oh I see, so the 360 wrap caused you lots of acid and reflux, but the half wrap doesn't?

Im about 3 weeks post op and have been getting lots of reflux too, regurgitation of food, and bitter sour taste after eating. lots of belching etc. My doctor seems to think the wrap hasnt worked for some reason. Its not liquid or food pooling near the wrap or post op pain, this is full volume reflux, even though im only 3 weeks in. no problem getting food down, even in the first week i found i could easily swallow limpy and thicker foods. its as if i never had the wrap, i dont feel a difference or any swelling. I had a half wrap, even thought i wanted a full one. never suffered with heart burn, Just a little regurgitation when I ate something very sweet. Now Ive had the op, I have reflux liek ive never expirenced. Ive been put on Nexium because my lansoprazol doesnt seem to work anymore.

I see the doctor in another 4 weeks.
Posted 7/29/2014 6:29 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,flipsake that's bad,going through the surgery and being worse!
Are you going to get some testing done then to see whats wrong?

My problems where food and liquids sitting in my esophagus which caused constant nausea and similar feelings to reflux but no heartburn. My second surgeon carried out manometry and said only 50% of esophagus was working so he redone the wrap to 200 degrees.Ive been great since,no drugs and no reflux!
Barry
Posted 7/29/2014 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
glad to hear your doing allot better Barry, yeh, its hell, no problems before, but now crippled with symptoms. the regret is unbelievable, all i wanted was to eat cake or a piece of chocolate like everyone else, now i cant even tolerate water, everything ends up burning its way back up, got blisters on the roof of my mouth and tongue from the acid.

after the surgery the surgeon said that my opening in the diaphram was a little larger than average, no hernia or anything and no evidence of injury. I contacted him and proscribed me Nexium which is suposed to be much stronger than the PPI I was on before. ive been taking for 2 days, so far no difference. to be honest im realy devastated, I knwo allot of people say that im in the "early stages, and its all post op pain". But volume food and acid coming up this early isnt a good sign.

im praying that something can be done,
Posted 7/30/2014 11:23 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry to hear your suffering so bad.
It would be interesting to see what your surgeon finds when he does some testing on you.
My first surgeon couldn't find anything wrong with my wrap but a year later I still had nausea and other problems so I went elsewhere.
Just a thing on the ppis,it takes a few weeks for them to have any effect on reflux.If you do not get relief its most likely food not getting through your wrap properly.
Hope it all settles down! Barry
Posted 7/30/2014 1:20 PM (GMT 0)
thanks my friend, yeh, i heard that too about the PPIs, i thought it would be instant considering I've been taking another PPI up until the day I changed meds, But this is a different drug I guess and needs to build its self up.

Ill keep you posted!
Posted 8/5/2014 7:59 PM (GMT 0)
well time for an update.

Im just past the 4 week mark from my surgery and I basicly feel normal, I can eat bread easily, or any sandwich or toast, crackers, everything slides down no trouble, just have to make sure its well chewed. Im eating liek a horse, with no pain or discomfort. and it feels good.

the acid on the other hand is still here, not as bad as it was, but i still get liquids coming up to my throat and also the sour taste. foods dont come up liek before the operation, but liquids seem to bleed through.

something ive also descovered is that any milk or or yogurt based product seems to me my reflux much worse. having being plagued with acid after my op, i noticed that most of the symptoms were after a milkshake, build up shake, nutrition shake, ice cream, or yogourt or budding, or custard. basicly my whole diet.

So i cut them all out at week 2/3 and started to eat rougher food, like weatabix with water. or eggs. and the reflux was nowhere near as bad, i got sour taste, but it wasnt as bad as before.

Ive always had problems with milk products, im not lactose intolorent, its just when i had a large bowl of cereal, or a glass of milk or fruit yogourt before the operation, its as if my whole exophagus whent limp or lax, reacting to it, which then caused me to have a backflow of food into my throat through out the day/days.

perhaps this related to my esophegal hypersensitivity that my GI doctor was constantly convinced I had or have.


anyow, i cut it all out, apart form chease and things like that, even soy milk or almond milk had the same effect, anything that was a liquid.

i started eating crackers and toast at week 3 and no reflux, or at least nowhere near as bad. I still get Larynx refulx when i drink any liquid though, especialy when its not just water or it is warm.

My lansoprasol wasnt working, so the doctor proscribed me Nexium 20mg x twice per day. mentioning that it was much stronger that the 60 mg i was on.

Ive heard some prity bad stuff about nexium, but i seem to be tolorating it ok, apart form one thing, every day my bowels are bloated as though i am pregnant and very tender.

Now whether this is because of my partial wrap, or it is because I am actualy eating food for the first time, or whether it is because I am avoiding fluids because of the reflux, Or because of the Nexium its self, I dont know, But i didnt have it directly after the op. That being said, constipation has played a large part since the op, I last went to teh toilet about 2 days ago, and 2 weeks before that,

see the surgeon again in another 4 weeks or so, Im going to tell him some of my concerns about the reflux and regurgitation.
Posted 8/6/2014 12:02 PM (GMT 0)
hiya,where you getting any heartburn when you get the liquids coming up your esophagus? Im asking this as liquids can cause problems not emptying from your gullet due to not having the weight that foods would have.
I have experienced this in the past and still get that occasionally. Barry
Posted 8/6/2014 1:49 PM (GMT 0)
hey Baza, hope your doing well.

nah, the stuff is definatley going down , no problems with stuff geting stuck, I can eat steak and burgers with no problem now, if i manage to finish off half a cup of water, its about 35 - 40 mins later I get the regurgitation, I feel it come up through the wrap into my throat, or sometimes comes out of my nose.

Ive never realy suffered with heart burn, I tend to get more burning in the throat and throat tightening.

Its a pain in the ass.
Posted 8/6/2014 2:33 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, im sure your really fed up with it. Your situation sounds very complicated.A nissen wrap should stop any reflux if its done correctly and hasn't come undone but I suppose motility problems make things not as straight forward.
Hope your surgeon can have a good look at your wrap to see whats going on.Mine wouldnt look anywhere near it until the three month mark to make sure all swelling had settled down. Barry
Posted 8/6/2014 3:16 PM (GMT 0)
Yeh, its a real pain, I had a half wrap. its weird, still dont understand how it can come up, I mean the fact that I can easily eat steak, sandwiches, tough bread at 2/3 weeks without any problem, kind of tells me that the wrap isnt very tight. or that the swelling has gone down extremely fast. I dont even feel the food touch the sides, its just liek before the op, execpt now i have reflux when before all i got was a tight throat.

Oh wow 3 months, not sure if he will want a barium swallow done,

have you got any expirence with nexium?
Posted 8/6/2014 8:08 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,honestly have no idea whats happening with your wrap. Before my second surgeon done my partial wrap he stated that 1 in 10 would still get some reflux with the partial but it should provide a better barrier than before. I know theres different methods of doing a partial wrap aswell,anterior and posterior but ive no idea which is better,its just the surgeons experience.
Yes I was taking nexium for 5 years and I hated it,i had bad side effects,brain fog,agitation but most of all ,fatigue. I was depressed on them but a lot of people are ok on them.I ended up taking h2 blockers called ranitidine and took gaviscon in between. Eventually I went for surgery.
Are you ok on Nexium,i know they can take a while to work as I went on and off them over the years. Barry
Posted 8/7/2014 6:47 AM (GMT 0)
Yeh, Its a realy mystery. constantly regretting it, i could have gone on as I was, just wanted to eat whatever id like same as everyone else. Im in my 20s too, so this is realy impacting my life, My wife lives in Japan, ive wanted to move to be with her for a few years now, but this problem has stoped me, we propared the visa for me to move this winter, But with this happening now, all that has changed.


Its very strange how this whole thing started, i never had heart burn, or reflux, until i was in hospital and a doctor game me a large dose of morphine, i wrenched and dry heaved for about 6 hours without stoping, litraly the next day, the symptoms started. after the operation the surgreon did make a coment that I had no hernia, my acid amount has always been adiquate on ph studies, but the opening in my diaphram that the esophagus goes through was a little larger than normal.

its been a bizzare journey from the start, at first I had pain, they thought it was hypersensitivity, which i thnik there is some truth in that. I was on so much acid supressing medication they said it would be impossible for acid to be coming up, But then soon after that the food started coming up, its not like i burp it up, but i can just feel the food come through my LES and soom up to my thoat.

anyhow, thought this op would solve the issue, as my problem wasnt acid as such, but regurgitation of food into my thorat which irritated it. seems ive done a full U turn.

Ive not had any major effects from nexium, apart from serious bloating (I look pregnant) especialy because im natrualy quite lean. and also constipation. But those things could also be because of the wrap (I heard that is a common trate) although ive had no dumping syndrome, or because ive started eating more substantial food again.

I was going to stop taking them to see if the swelling and constipation goes down, but then i rememberd how bad I was before I went on them, the lansoprazole i had been taking for a few years didnt seem to work, but wheather that was because it was litraly the first week after my op, i dont know. i had no effects from them at all.

im not sure how long Nexium start to work, ive been on them for a day over a week so far.

Post Edited (charliessjin) : 8/7/2014 12:54:10 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/7/2014 8:10 AM (GMT 0)
Hi,feel so sorry for you suffering with this so young,it really affects your life in such a big way and people just don't understand how bad it is.Its a real serious illness in my opinion. Mine didn't start until I hit 40,just came out of the blue oneday,though I think it might have been stress.
The bloating is most likely the surgery as my stomach is the same,people are asking am I drinking too much beer,im slim too but with a bulging stomach now,cant shift it no matter what ive tried.
Ive tried lanzoprazole aswell and they didn't work for me either,the nexium definitely cut the acid but the side effects are terrible.
Just keep on at your surgeon that your not happy and if he doesn't do anything you can always go to see another one for a second opinion. There will be an answer to it. Barry
Posted 8/10/2014 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks my friend, yeh, its tough.
Oh really, just like that after all those years, im sure it was hard trying to think why it happend or what caused it.

Oh your stomachs still full of wind even after so long? im suprised, i thought those sorts of symptoms stop after a few months.

Lansoprasol seemed to work ok, untill the op, now nexium is my only hope, actualy, i dont think its doing much.

I wanted to ask something about nexium actually, Im close to running out, and called my GP (not the same doctor that prescribed me the Nexium 1st time) for some more, he asked me what dose im on, and I said 20mg twice per day. He was shocked and said it was a very very high dose, he said that I need to lower my dose to just 20mg per day as soon as possible.

I knwo youve been on here a while and have took nexium youself. do you think my dose of 20mg twice per day is too high?? is it dangerous?

the Doctor has realy made me concerned, He has kind of scared me out of not taking it, and have gone down to 20mg in the morning. I can definatley tell the difference.

He was so shocked I was on such a dose. im not sure what other people take, and for how long you can take the medication without serious health degeneration.
Posted 8/11/2014 8:32 AM (GMT 0)
hiya, I think take as little as possible.stick with 20 mgs to see how you get on.I was on 40mgs for five years but I needed it as my heartburn and reflux was so bad.If heard of people on 80mgs!
Your still early in recovery after your surgery so maybe in time things will settle down and wont need any drugs at all. Some people can take a full year to recover from this!
I wouldn't say my stomach is full of air or im not getting a feeling like that or any discomfort its just my stomach looks swollen after a meal now and I really notice it after drinking liquids.It probably just my stomach is smaller than before.
I have to tell you that I was back on medication after my first surgery and it turned out I didn't need it as it was all due to the wrong wrap for me. Barry
Posted 8/11/2014 11:44 AM (GMT 0)
Hey, thanks for replying again, youve been a big help, and it realy does help having somone there who realy understands what your going though. Yeh i was thinking of trying to stick on 20mgs, ive been on just 20 for about 3 days, each day seems to be getting a little worse, but we will see what happens.
Yeh i heard it takes a long time for things to settle down, im only at 4 weeks so ive got a long long way to go. I hope this is just because of the healing process, but my thinking was that peoples wraps are most tight now, at this time post op, so if they were guna get any acid, they would most likely have it in the future when the wraps swelling goes down, not when its suposed to be at its tightest. im realy suprised at what and how much i can eat at the moment, and how easy it goes down, i think i eat more now then before the op.

Ah I see, yeh, its quite comical sometimes when i look down and see a tummy.

Yeh, i remember you said, it was because it was too tight i think you mentioned. you must have been realy frustraited to have to go through it a second time. it must have been hell. all because it was too tight. its funny, i dont think mine is tight enough, because the amount of acid and food ive got coming up, But it has to be tighter than before the op, thats definite. so im baffled how i can get worse acid/regurgitation now, when its tighter. hurts my brain haha. but that being said, one thing i have noticed is that I dont burp, I have burped a couple of times, for example if i gulp some water too fast, then it stays at the wrap a few seconds, before a burp comes, which then lets it inside while the burp is happeng, but genraly speaking, no bruping at all, and i used to be a big burper, so there is evidence that there is a wrap down there. i was thinking the problem might be linked to motility rather than too much acid. or that the operation and new position of stomach has caused an increased amount of acid because it is angry.

anyhow Baza thanks allot for replying, expecialy so early in the morning! hope you have a great day!
Posted 9/13/2014 2:40 PM (GMT 0)
Update time,

Had an apointment with my surgeon, turns out my surgeon wasnt there, it was his understoody (which is always a good sign)

She asked me how I was getting on, and told her everything ive been though over the last few months.

her face looked at me, as if im the first person ever that was unhappy, or unsuccesful with their operation.
he said that most people get reflux because the dont do a full wrap at that hospital, and most people would chose a little reflux now and again, over a full wrap. But im not getting any relife at all fro the wrap, its just like before the opp, exept im on stronger meds to control it, and it isnt even doing that.

Anyhow, she was also shocked to hear that It was possible to swallow bread or toast at 2 weeks post op, even steak and spare ribs is no problem.


She has now booked me in for a Barium Swallow/Meal to see if anything is happening.

She also perscribed me some tablets for quicker gastric emptying, which has so fare done nothing.

But the Barium swallow has brought on another concern. Last year I had 2 CT scans and 4 chest X-rays, the year before that I had 3 chest x rays, and the year before that I had a CT scan and 2 chest X rays.

A full Abdominal and pelvic CT scan amounts to almost 6 years worth of background radiation, or around 1000 chest x rays. and actrualy increases your risk of developing fatal cancer in your life time by .1% Now that doesnt sound like much, but ive had around 27 years worth of radiation in the last 2 and a half years. im not neurotic ofcourse, and Ive seen first hand the implications of short term radiation exposure with spending allot of my time in Japan over the last few years.

anyhow, thats the update, im not sure at all what they will offer me, or even if the Test shows the wrap is still in place what then? in a sense they have done their job, they have created a wrap ( although has worsend my symptoms ten fold) but thats what they agreed to, and thats what has happened, id imagine they have every right to send me on my way, or recommend me to carry on with the meds.

ive even been thinking if the full wrap will even work any better and stop the food from coming up. I have no idea. They confessed before the operation that they ony do half wraps, and dont do full ones, because of people complaining they cant swallow easily. but i felt there is enough evidence in the world that the full wrap is effective. in fact a full wrap is more common than a half wrap, as its a relitivley new procedure compared to the full wrap.

anyhow, im waffling a little haha, so Im not at all sure what they will be doing with me, as this operation is the last resort, if all else fails.
i would love it if they had some secrete procedure or magic want to ether put me back to my previous reflux amount before the op, or fix me like they were suposed to.

ive even considered going to Japan where my wife is and paying for the full wrap, in desperation.
Posted 9/13/2014 2:40 PM (GMT 0)
Update time,

Had an apointment with my surgeon, turns out my surgeon wasnt there, it was his understoody (which is always a good sign)

She asked me how I was getting on, and told her everything ive been though over the last few months.

her face looked at me, as if im the first person ever that was unhappy, or unsuccesful with their operation.
he said that most people get reflux because the dont do a full wrap at that hospital, and most people would chose a little reflux now and again, over a full wrap. But im not getting any relife at all fro the wrap, its just like before the opp, exept im on stronger meds to control it, and it isnt even doing that.

Anyhow, she was also shocked to hear that It was possible to swallow bread or toast at 2 weeks post op, even steak and spare ribs is no problem.


She has now booked me in for a Barium Swallow/Meal to see if anything is happening.

She also perscribed me some tablets for quicker gastric emptying, which has so fare done nothing.

But the Barium swallow has brought on another concern. Last year I had 2 CT scans and 4 chest X-rays, the year before that I had 3 chest x rays, and the year before that I had a CT scan and 2 chest X rays.

A full Abdominal and pelvic CT scan amounts to almost 6 years worth of background radiation, or around 1000 chest x rays. and actrualy increases your risk of developing fatal cancer in your life time by .1% Now that doesnt sound like much, but ive had around 27 years worth of radiation in the last 2 and a half years. im not neurotic ofcourse, and Ive seen first hand the implications of short term radiation exposure with spending allot of my time in Japan over the last few years.

anyhow, thats the update, im not sure at all what they will offer me, or even if the Test shows the wrap is still in place what then? in a sense they have done their job, they have created a wrap ( although has worsend my symptoms ten fold) but thats what they agreed to, and thats what has happened, id imagine they have every right to send me on my way, or recommend me to carry on with the meds.

ive even been thinking if the full wrap will even work any better and stop the food from coming up. I have no idea. They confessed before the operation that they ony do half wraps, and dont do full ones, because of people complaining they cant swallow easily. but i felt there is enough evidence in the world that the full wrap is effective. in fact a full wrap is more common than a half wrap, as its a relitivley new procedure compared to the full wrap.

anyhow, im waffling a little haha, so Im not at all sure what they will be doing with me, as this operation is the last resort, if all else fails.
i would love it if they had some secrete procedure or magic want to ether put me back to my previous reflux amount before the op, or fix me like they were suposed to.

ive even considered going to Japan where my wife is and paying for the full wrap, in desperation.
Posted 9/15/2014 7:47 AM (GMT 0)
Hiya, that's good news that your getting a barium swallow test,hopefully it will show whats happening in there.
I wouldn't worry about all the scans and xrays you've had in the past and its really only a very small dose that you receive.
Good luck with your test and keep us posted with your results.You will find and answer to this! Barry
Posted 9/15/2014 8:41 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks my friend!

there is something ive noticed that ive forgot to mention, especialy as ive gotten over the healing process of the op, and thats how sensitive I am to what I eat, for example, if i nibble on crackers, or a little bit of plain pasta with no sauce, or something very bland, with no taste, and very little ingredients. (as long as I dont eat too much) i dont get any if any reflux or regurgitation symptoms.

If, on the other hand, I have a digestive biscuit, or some jam, Soup, or something that is sweet or strong tasting in some shape or form. Its s though my entire oesophagus is in shock and goes completely limp, and struggles to keep the food down, also swallowng become difficult. It did this before the op, which is my hypersensitivity, but its only since the operation have I realy noticed how sensitive this is. its a strange one.

Ive had theorries in the past about what is causeing this, and ive never realy believed i produce too much stomach acid. I think it is some kind of physiological problem with my oesophagus, it gets stimulated which causes it to behave stragley or my LES just looses all its tension. thats the only explination i can think of, as when i swallow water, it stops for a second, then passes through, so there is a wrap physically there that is preventing liquid from passing through to some extent, So the same would apply to food coming up. It seems to me that perhaps my LES or esophagus is fighting the wrap as some kind of Motility anti movement that its physically pushing open the LES or Dilating it in some kind of reaction to stimuli from ether Food/Drink, or from acid its self. As when i drink only water, my symptoms can improve somewhat, But as soon as I start adding cordial/Juice/Squash to that water, my oesophagus just goes limp and thus the reflux starts. mmmmmmmmmm allot to think about .
Posted 9/17/2014 1:39 PM (GMT 0)
Got the Barium done, during the test the doctor said there was reflux coming up, not a allot of it, but there was some. also when I had the check done on my stomach to see if it was emptying, the barium wasnt flowing through, it was staying in my stomach, they kept waiting, then taking another x ray, but it would never move. in th eend they said they would forward this info to my doc.
Posted 11/17/2014 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
a quick update, saw my surgeon today, and found details i wasnt aware of in my opertion.

when i awoke, i asked his understudy wheather they had found anything or noticed anything during my operation. she said no.

Now it turns out that my surgeon said I had a haiatus hernia, with a large opening in my diaphram. the hernia they had seen was not very big, But the size of the hole ment that at one time, or sometimes, the hernia could be very large.

I was not told this, and im ***ing pissed. especulay because I had 3 endoscopies in the last 2 years, and when I asked each one, they said I had no hernia.

The surgeon mentioned that he repaired the hole, but it might not be tight enough for me. But isnt willing to make it tighter, or re operate on it. He advises me to have another PH study to see if his surgery has failed. What i dont understand, is that when I had the PH study before the op, it showd normal acid exposure. But aparentley i had a haiatus hernia. so now he wants to check weather the hernia is back? so there would still be no indication, just liek before. Its not logical.

He said he wants to refer me to a gastro doctor who will try and control this by medication. so basicly when this started 3 years ago, I started on medication, didnt work, so i spent the 2 years fighting for surgery, got it, not im back to square one. its as though the surgeon thought "well ive done my bit, if my surgery has made you worse, then its a job for the gastro doctors.

I was realy expecting him to tighten me up. or give me a full wrap.

I was considering going to japan and just paying for the operaition.

when i first came on here with my concerns, people felt i was panicing and that the acid wasnt acid. im at the stage now where food is pouring out of my nose. and ive gone from 10 stone to 7 stone in weight. Iregret every day havign this operation, as before, regurgitation was an inconvinience, now it is my life. I have burnign all day every day, i wake up with dry vomit over my face and bed. ive had to cancel my visa to be with my wife overseas.

this is hard to say, but ive come close to taking my own life. through tablets, or cable from my bed, anyhting to escape the regret and discomfort i find myself in every day.

befor i had a future, now all i can see is nothing.
Posted 11/17/2014 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Charliessjin, im so sorry to hear that news.I have an idea how you feel,i was told on here aswell that I was panicing after my first op. People just go by the majority of cases,but there has to be some that go wrong aswell.
I was so depressed after my first surgery aswell and felt like giving up but you've got to think positive.Think of your beautiful wife and family!
Please start looking for another surgeon even if you have to go private,there will be someone out there who can help you. I had to get on a plane feeling really ill,white as a ghost and underweight to see another surgeon and im glad I did!
I can give you the name of my surgeon who redone my op if you wish. I forgot to ask you where you live? Barry

Post Edited (Baza) : 11/17/2014 10:53:37 AM (GMT-7)

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