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Posted 6/7/2012 4:23 PM (GMT 0)
Hello, I used to have some quite bad anxiety issues and around 6 years ago I was put on 40mg of diazepam daily, over the last 2 years I have been slowly tapering off diazepam and I am down to 5mg per day this has been a very hard journey but worth it to get off this horrible benzo and I am now reaching the point where I feel the need to speak to others that are in my predicament or have been in the past so I thought it would be a good idea to phone up some helplines that specialize in support groups so I phoned up narcotics anonymous and told some guy my story (BAD IDEA) this guy basically told me to quit benzos cold turkey and that the only reason I am still taking benzos is because I am in denial and that I am addict and he made me feel like some junkie scum bag for reducing my dose slowly the way I am which is 0.5mg every 3-4 weeks, these people need to understand the differences between benzo addiction and some one that is a full blown heroin addict or alcoholic.

After speaking to this idiot I felt some what confused so I immediately called my physciotrist and he told me to disregard everything NA had said and that they are basically a cult that will mess with my head I then phoned a tranquilizer addiction help line for some extra advice and they told me the same thing and said not to listen to these people, I knew this guy from NA was wrong and I was right in the first place I just had to get some extra advice, these people need stopped they could cause some one some serious harm giving out incorrect medical advice, I am NOT an addict in the sense I want to take this drug I am simply an addict in the sense I have to take this drug until it is out of my system completely, I just feel like there is literally no one out there that understands about this benzo trap, but I am glad I made the call because I was actually thinking about attending one of their meetings tonight I think if some one had of said that to me face to face I would of put them out cold, bunch of idiots I am furious, haha rant over! turn

Post Edited (paul29) : 6/8/2012 10:08:12 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/7/2012 4:47 PM (GMT 0)
Hi paul and welcome to the A/P forum.

While I am not ready to say that NA is a bad program that is dishing out awful advice to all people...I will agree that the person you talked to was sorely misinformed and seemingly not very educated in regards to safe tapering off of a benzodiazepine drug!

Even with other substances like you mentioned in your post...one can't quit cold turkey. Alcoholics often have to detox slowly to avoid dangerous side-effects...and some drugs/medications could have serious (or even fatal) withdrawl issues if not weened from in a proper manner.

I am glad that you saw clearly that you had been given bad advice, and that you are continuing on your safe schedule of tapering.

I would consider calling and asking to talk to someone in charge at the NA hotline...I am sure that most of their people are volunteers..and perhaps are in need of more information and training. You could help assure this happens with your feedback.

Here is a website that you may be interested in looking at....I am sure that it will reinforce what you already know about benzo tapering...but worth a read anyway.:)


http://www.theroadback.org/

Thanks and post with us anytime,

Scaredy Cat

Posted 6/7/2012 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
Hi I have just got off the phone from some one at NA after trying to make complaint they more or less said it was my own fault for phoning when I already have support in place and that I wasted their time, I told them I am not an addict in the mental sense and that it is simply a nasty physical addiction they said that they can not trace the person I spoke to (hmmm) and told me not to ring again, I then said I want to make a formal complaint she said she would note it on their message board, I AM NOT HAPPY, but hey thats life now I know these types of places are not for me and to just carry on doing what I am doing, I guess unless you have been through benzo withdrawal yourself you cant compare it to anything else or even begin to understand and I think this is what this guy was doing comparing it to heroin withdrawal as he was an ex addict himself.
Posted 6/7/2012 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
Well you tried to do the right thing by calling and offering feedback, and that is all that matters.:)

The bottom line is that you are doing what is right for you. Keep up the good work, and don't let something like this get in your way!

Let us know how it is going soon, and how the final step down goes for you okay?

I hope that you have a good day and contiue to feel well.

S.C.
Posted 6/8/2012 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
paul29,

First of all I can identify with how you are feeling and I am sorry you received bad advice from the people at NA as well as being treated rudely.  I would like to believe that you just ran into the wrong people when calling for assistance so try to put this behind you and know talking with your Dr. was the right things to do.

I did a very slow wean down on Valium using the Dr. Ashton method which I worked closely with my Pdoc.  Here is the link to the program that helped me.  http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

Just to clarify - did you mean you are were on 40 mg of Valium a day verses 40 ml ( which would be liquid - but how many mg per ml ?)

Be well,

Kitt


 

Posted 6/8/2012 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
hi Kitt,

I was on a daily dose of 40mg and I have weaned myself down to 5mg over the last 2 years with out any help other than the internet most Drs are pretty clueless, I used the same taper as you although in the beginning I made massive cuts far to quick and I went from 40mg to 30 mg in a week then 30mg to 25mg in a month then 25mg to 20mg the next month then I stabilized on 20mg for a month and started the correct taper plan and it was hell I also tried cold trukey at the start and that was insane, it has been a hard battle which has caused me a lot of physical problems such as gerd but from what I gather from speaking to other benzo users once the diazepam leaves your system completely my gerd should calm down dramatically.

Did you have any stomach problems when you were reducing also how long have you been off valium, thanks!
Posted 6/8/2012 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
Paul,

My wean went very smoothly and I did not have stomach problems due to the wean.  My Pdoc had not heard of this wean process and before I went to my appointment I copied  the info and dropped it off at her office so she could review the info and be ready to discuss the use of the schedule.  She was very receptive to it and all went well.  I still have 2 mg Valium to use when my anxiety starts to get in the high range.  I also have Depression so many of the meds I have been on over the years have aggrevated my anxiety as well as so many life situations.

I made my wean slow and my Dr. let me take the reins but no big cuts and it took me about 10 months to get down to the 2 mg dosing from 40 mg/day. 

I also have a therapist and of course the support of the awesome people here in this forum.

Kindly,

Kitt

 

Posted 6/8/2012 4:20 PM (GMT 0)
Paul,

PLEASE don't call yourself an addict. There is a HUGE difference in someone being addicted to drugs for recreational purposes, and someone who is dependent on a drug they were prescribed to treat an ailment.

I am also on a benzo, xanax to be exact, since last May. I take .5 twice daily, and if I have to, I take a third one mid day. This was prescribed for me to take actually 3 times a day, but I only take two 99% of the time. One in the AM and one before bed, unless of course my anxiety is really bad, then I'll just snap one in half and take .25.

Don't be so hard on yourself for taking meds. You wouldn't be if you were on a heart med, or a cancer drug, or even a blood pressure pill. So why think poorly of yourself for being on a med that actually helps your condition. You are NOT addicted, you're body is just dependent on a drug that makes you feel "normal".

To me, I'd rather be dependent on something that was helping me, instead of dealing with the anxiety/panic on a daily basis. Stay strong, and stop degrading yourself for taking meds. There is nothing wrong with you!

((hugs)) Fox
Posted 6/8/2012 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
no offence to anyone here but its these nasty benzos that cause anxiety, once I get off diazepam I would rather have a heart attack and die than take another one, I stick to natural herbs these days for my anxiety infact it was these natural herbs that got me down to 5mg there not for everyone though. Kitt are you planning on jumping from your dose anytime soon, I will be benzo free this time next year yipeeee and I cant wait, hate these things they are the devils work, hope you both do well.
Posted 6/8/2012 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
Paul,

I understand how you feel and at this point I am keeping the Valium in reserve.  I have been on many antidepressants that I would never take again as they nearly did me in - ended up in ER from 2 different ones over the years.

As each of us has a history and our mental health disorders are unique to us it becomes an individual decision on what people choose to do.  I am all for natural herbs and do take supplements but I also choose to use medication and therapy.   I have a 30 year history of Anxiety/Depression.  Life without meds sounds wonderful and it makes me feel bad that I am not able to go med free and even brings tears to my eyes as I feel weak for not being able to control my issues without medications.

I wish you peace and happiness,

Kitt

Posted 6/8/2012 7:07 PM (GMT 0)
Very well put Mayflower...if there is something that requires medical intervention for optimal health, in body or mind...it would be absurd not to take that which helps/heals the condition!

I wish everyone success and peace with whatever their treatment entails.:)

S.C.
Posted 6/9/2012 11:23 AM (GMT 0)

stkitt said...
Paul,
I understand how you feel and at this point I am keeping the Valium in reserve. I have been on many antidepressants that I would never take again as they nearly did me in - ended up in ER from 2 different ones over the years.

As each of us has a history and our mental health disorders are unique to us it becomes and individual decision on what people choose to do. I am all for natural herbs and do take supplements but I also choose to use medication and therapy. I have a 30 year history of Anxiety/Depression. Life without meds sounds wonderful and it makes me feel bad that I am not able to go med free and even brings tears to my eyes as I feel weak for not being able to control my issues without medications.

I wish you peace and happiness,

Kitt



when you ditch the valium your anxiety will go, trust me it is the valium causing the anxiety I know this drug inside out, slowly taper off your 2ml and I guarentee you will feel better
Posted 6/9/2012 1:42 PM (GMT 0)
Paul,

 

On HealingWell we strive to seek a balance between alternative and traditional approaches.  I feel strongly both approaches have value for anyone seeking healing.

Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal choices. We should respect all points of view regarding treatment decisions.

 

Posted 6/9/2012 1:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Paul, what are the natural herbs you use, valerian? I would like to try some of these but I am unsure whats good / how effective ...tell me more, and the different ones to try out

If I ditched xanax completely, my anxiety would rocket. Skitt is right - it is different for everyone! Most of the time I just carry it around, and only take when required! but having it there, just incase, gives me great peace of mind. I would like to try more natural remidies though - even if they really wernt that effective, the placebo effect would also work on me I think smilewinkgrin


Sorry to hear about the phone-call you had, unbelievable ! you should file a complaint anyway, regardless of what they said..

Post Edited (dakota16) : 6/9/2012 8:11:24 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/9/2012 2:44 PM (GMT 0)
hi kitt, I completely agree with what you are saying believe me I have been there time and time again and it is horrible and I agree as a short term solution Valium is great but the thing with long term users and this drug is when it leaves your system your body starts craving a further dose and more to the point when it leaves your body you start craving for another dose at a specific time so for example say you take a dose of 2mg valium at 10am Monday morning and you dont take anymore because the panic is gone and you feel better again, then around 3-5 days later your body will be expecting another dose at exactly the same time(this drug remembers) this is due to its massive half life up to 200hrs and as you have took the valium then stopped taking it your body is sending all sorts of fuzzy signals to your brain(gaba receptors) which then comes across as anxiety then you get in a panic so what do you do you naturally take another valium of course and so the vicious circle erupts, if you could let the valium completely leave your system which I know is hard it would take between 3-6 months that anxiety you feel will go, the anxiety valium causes is a very specific type of anxiety and after years of use and over 2 years of tapering it is easily recognizable so when I feel this anxiety I know it is nothing more than the withdrawal process so I grit my teeth and ride it out as it usually only lasts and max of 30 mins normally about 10-15 in my experience.

So basically all I am saying is that once the valium leaves your system you will have one less problem to deal with, yes you will have the anxiety of life and illness and everything that goes with that but you wont have the added anxiety valium causes anymore, once you recognize the difference between these 2 types of anxiety which is valium use and withdrawal anxiety and then normal day to day life anxiety you should find making sense of this post a lot easier, I used to think like you untill I got down to the dose I am at now, fair enough before valium I had anxiety but in retrospect my life was a complete breeze before valium.
Posted 6/9/2012 3:01 PM (GMT 0)
Paul,

I know you mean well and thanks for the lesson  in Pharmacology however you are preaching to the choir as I had a great Professor and got an A in that class.

I will ask that you perhaps address  Dakota's question to you and refrain from pushing your point re Valium.

If you want to discuss Valium on a one to one with me please feel free to email me.  My email is in my profile.

Posted 6/9/2012 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
ok kitt sorry for coming across patronizing I know it looks that way, yeah I will mail you my details, once again sorry.

Hi Dakotas forgot about you lol, yeah basically you need to be in a certain frame of mind before natural herbs are recommended there are many to choose from, could you please tell me a little about your background ie your dose of xanax at the moment and are you currenlty reducing the dose, also why did you start using xanax, thanks.
Posted 6/9/2012 4:33 PM (GMT 0)
Paul,

Apology accepted and I suspect you did not intentionally mean to be patronizing but, instead, you were trying to help.

Kindly,

Kitt

Posted 3/25/2013 7:11 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Paul

I"m rally sorry to hear you had such bad experience with the NA help line. I've been a member of NA now for 2 years after loosing control of my benzo use. I was tapering off my benzo's 2 mg every week while going to a NA meeting nearly every day. I had suicidal thoughts and I don't think I would have surived with out the support of NA. The last amout of benzo's I was tapering off in a 12 step clinic.

NA works with 12 steps and 12 traditions. Tradition 10 states that NA don't have any opinion on outside issus. That also means that that NA don't give medical advise. What the helpline person did was wrong. It really makes me angry when I hear stories like this. It can be really dangerous. But please don't let this influence your opinion on NA as a program of recovery. Bad things happens in a lot of self help groups I think.

Na also says that the only requierment for membership is a desire to stop using. I recomend you if you feel the need for support and crave benzo's go to a meeting and talk to differnt people after the meeting. Na doesn't make any difference between differnt substances but do define addiction as obsession and compulsion wich mean loosing control of drug use or thoughts relating to drug use
Posted 3/25/2013 8:31 PM (GMT 0)
Hi nero and welcome!

The OP here hasn't been around since this thread...but I am glad that you joined us, and invite you to post with us anytime.

Great job on your work with NA, and I wish you continued success.:) Thanks for the valuable information on this subject!

Talk to you soon.

Scaredy Cat
Posted 3/26/2013 12:31 AM (GMT 0)
Kitty, what ever You do to be You is wonderful,
You are a golden ray of light penetrating the dark curtain of fear,
shining into the dark scary corners of our mind/hearts,
Just dont ever turn off the Light!

Love Larry ***
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