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Bipolar spouse- how much control does a bipolar person have over outbursts?

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Posted 7/22/2008 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
Does anyone know how much control a bipolar person has or can be expected to have? It is hard for me to determine what is bad behavior and what is a symptom in my husband.
Posted 7/22/2008 2:37 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Mom2four,

Welcome to HealingWell. There's a lot of "it depends" to your question. Is your husband on any sort of treatment plan? Does he see a psychiatrist and therapist regularly? Does he stick to his medication regimen?

Left untreated, bipolar will manifest itself in all kinds of nasty ways, but that doesn't make it okay. It is treatable and manageable. If he's mistreating you or your children, you have the right to insist he shape up and get help. If he won't ... well that's up to you.

serafena
Posted 7/22/2008 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
Serafena-

Thank you. Your site has so many helpful posts. They are both helpful for understanding, but discouraging and heartbreaking. He treats himself herbally, and has refused to get any other help. In fact, he didn't even tell me about this until -well, ever. Some friends and family did. He blames everything on this condition which he never admits to, but refuses to acknowledge it at the same time. He was always fine before we married, and apparently before that, but started going downhill the moment we married and moved in together. The pastor of our church, and some other friends then said "oh we are so sorry, we thought that he was better." This is what leads to my question of what is in his power. How could he control it so long- or turn it off and on; but then behave so badly? I do not understand if he was in a mania high when we met, and marrying us (I had three children, and we have a two year old together, his three children are grown, and all suffer from either disorder or the affects of living with him as a father). I had to move out quickly about a year and a half ago with my three children the baby, and his autistic 3 year old grandson who was living with us, while he was held for 3 days after a suicide threat. He was very threatening and told the pastor that he wanted me "and everything tainted by me" out of the house. I have tried to get him to get help during this time, but feel that I cannot have the children live with him. He has refused to even consider it and keeps thinking that it is my problem- even still accuses me of "having the police attack him and tazer him and have him locked away." Anyway, he wants everything dropped out of court or he will make it a divorce. I don't want a divorce, I want him to get help. He finally saif that he will get help after this contract job ends in December IF I drop everything out of court now. This is what I want, but I am afraid. The psychotherapist we had tried for marriage counseling (he said that it was hopeless without my husband getting treatment, and advises me to divorce him and keep the children away from him) doesn't believe that he will follow through, and neither does the pastor. I feel so badly for my husband, and guilty for not supporting him more, but I also feel guilty for having him around my children at all. I asked for a separation so that we could have some type of custody arrangement in place with supervised visitation, and I still think that is necessary. I am just trying to make heads and tails of this. My husband hasn't said anything in particular, but according to friends and family- and he does match most of these symptoms listed- he has schizoaffective bipolar with paranoid/narcissistic personality disorders. He treats these (when he takes it) with 5Htp Calm-and herbal mix. This is lengthy and I apologize. I am extremely guilt ridden and confused, and I have to go to work, so I will see what you advise later.

Thank you for your help
Posted 7/22/2008 3:41 PM (GMT 0)
This is a question I've thought about this for quite a while, and studied my son and husbands behavior trying to determine this.

This is what I've found.....the answer depends on the person and is as individual as the disease itself. With my son, there are clear signs that it is bipolar and not just a 12 year old being a brat. There are times when he can't even remember what he's done, his whole face and body language changes, and he becomes a thoughtless, sarcastic, hateful little boy with an arrogance, and spite of a grown man. When he's not manic he acts out with his normal personality, a happy go lucky, sweet, respectful 12 yr. old, he can hear the word no and is disappointed but accepting, he is respectful and thoughtful, even when being told something he doesn't want to hear.

My husbands personality is normally thoughtful, very noncombative, and reasonable. (I don't see too much of this side lately!)
When he is exibiting bipolar symptoms his verbal control goes out the window. He is hot tempered, hurtful, and downright bratty!
See if you can think about a happy day you've had in the past with your husband and what his personality traits were at the time.
Can you think of a time when he has shown self control in a positive way? How do they differ from him during his bad behavior?
Just remember that even though his behavior may be a symptom IT'S NOT OKAY for him to be mean or hurtful. He has to know that you expect to be treated with respect, and aren't willing to accept and less. If he knows you respect yourself and are looking out for YOU, he will have more respect. Even in Bipolar, it's like my father taught me, People will treat you the way you let them. In turn, always try to treat him with respect, even if he makes you want to scream.
I find the best way to accomplish this is to tell him something along these lines-- "Although I understand you may feel justified at the moment for the way you are (acting,feeling,etc.) this is not the way you usually behave. I'm not going to engage or tolerate this type of behavior. I will speak with you when I can see you are feeling more in control. Then go to another room, take a walk, whatever you need to do to create some space. He probably won't understand right then. You can't reason with a person who is unreasonable at the time, and that's okay! He will eventually come back down to earth.

What my husband and I have done is make an action plan in writing. He doesn't always stick to it at the time, but I do. I gently remind him of our agreement, and then walk away. I refuse to engage him when he is not showing respectful, good behavior.
I've created a place of retreat in the house for me. If his mania lasts all night and I feel I can't sleep beside him we've agreed that I can stay in my retreat until I see he is in a more reasonable mode.

I also keep a journal of the good and bad, everyday. It's good to be able to look back on for both of you. For us it has helped me see clear patterns of behavior, and what triggers them.
Posted 7/22/2008 4:15 PM (GMT 0)
You have my greatest concern at the forefront of your mind as well -- the children. They shouldn't be exposed to someone who is out of control or abusive. I personally put very little stock in herbal treatments, but that's me and treatment plans are a personal decision. Bipolar is worsened by stress, and bipolar people are excellent manipulators, so it doesn't surprise me that he could manage to hide his symptoms from you before you were married and then have the stress of a new marriage trigger new episodes for him. Since then it sounds like things have been very up and down.

If your pastor and the psychiatrist have told you to be wary that your husband is lying to you about getting treatment, then I believe you should take their opinions to heart. I'm certainly not going to tell you what to do, but your husband refuses to take responsibility for his actions or his disorder, and until that happens you will never really be married. Keep the children safe, take care of yourself, and let your husband figure out his life for himself. He knows what he needs to do -- he is CHOOSING not to, despite the fact that it's clearly going to cost him his marriage. That's tragic.

serafena
Posted 7/22/2008 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
Hello, I'm sorry to say I wrote and sent my first post before seeing your reply describing your husbands behavior. Having said that, I would suggest to you that you first take care of your child and yourself. PLEASE, be careful before dropping anything out of court. I hope you only consider doing so after he attends counseling, seeks medical treatment from a licensed professional in Bipolar Disorder, and has established a clear pattern of being proactive in his getting better.

I completely understand your feelings of guilt, I had the same with my husband. I used to feel completely responsible for his health, and the thought of leaving made me feel like a horrible person. This is not your fault! You have nothing to feel guilty about. It is not fair that you have to go through this, but you will make it through. Believe me, he knows how much you love him. He knows you are trying your hardest. It's only fair to you that you have the same. You deserve to get to be a spouse, instead of caretaker all the time. I can tell you have a lot of love for him, where there is love there is always hope.

Please, for your and your childs sake, I hope you will have an exit plan just in case. In my case I let him know that I loved him too much to watch him do this to himself, and that I love my children and myself too much to put up with being treated with anger all the time. I told him that unless he at least humored me, and went to an appointment with me I would remove my children and myself from the situation. We went in together, and I made sure that no matter what I was not going to let him take control while in there, I knew he would try. I calmly told the Dr. everything right in front of him. After describing each instance, I would look at him and say, Do you think I described this accurately? Is there anything you want to add? The Dr. was able to see how unstable he was and medicated him right there in the office. It's been a slow upward climb every since, but he is at the point where I can reason with him half the time.
If you can't get him to go to a Psych. then I hope you will go for yourself, and do what you need to do to take care of yourself.
Posted 7/23/2008 3:16 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you all for your answers with this. This has been such a painful marriage. The worst thing has been the stress on the children. They went from just adoring him to be being terrified of him. He threatened to "beat the face in" of my 13 year old son (after an episode that completely imagined, not anything that really happened); my nine year old daughter was literally suicidal; and my 10 year old daughter was always on the verge (or past) of hysteria. They were really well adjusted, well mannered, respectful, happy children who loved my husband very much. My children feel betrayed by him, because they loved and trusted him. They also feel betrayed by me, for keeping them in such an insane and threatening environment. My original question of just how much control a BiPolar person has can be illustrated by a circumstance like this: While I was pregnant with a very complicated pregnancy, my husband had a fit at work and behaved in a threatening manner toward my business partner (he did not work while we were together, but tried for a while to work at my retail business, claiming to not be able to get a job, even though he did after we were separated, making really good money; he had said that he was independently wealthy as well as being very gainfully employed before we were married, and said tha tI could quit my business when I became pregnant-which was surprisingly 2 1/2 weeks after we were married!), he had also made some very inapropriate remarks to our salesperson, a sales rep, etc. I asked him not to go back to the store because of his behavior and the stress that it placed on our relationship, and my relationship with my partner. I just couldn't handle the extra stress of them fighting through me, and she was right-he was out of line. Anyway, when I said that, he left the house with a gun, I followed him, caught him, took the gun, followed him home; he locked himself behind three doors with another gun; I miraculously got through them, and caught him with the shotgun in his mouth; I tried to reason with him, and finally ended up putting my head over his and telling him that he would have to kill all three of us (I was very pregnant) if that was what he wanted to do. I am not certain what that did for him (my guess is that it "proved my love"-which he is always testing), but he instantly snapped to, apologized, and was perfectly reasonable and nice from that second on. He said that he had quit taking his medication, and that he would start again. My question is how that could help and he could be instantly sane, kind and reasonable when he still had not taken any medication?! The psychotherapist said that the herbal complex that he takes would not help him anyway. It would help someone with no disorder during times of stress, but not a condition as severe as his. Anyway, I am so sorry to be so lengthy, but I thought that this one example might give you a glimmer of what I am asking about- I wish that it was the only one that I had to offer. Our religious beliefs further complicate things. He so very adept at twisting and inerpreting everything to his point of view. He is extremely intelligent and articulate. Even the psychotherapist (with 26 years of experience) says that he hangs up the phone and has to rationalize with himself. Thank you for your help- I hope that this example gives you an idea of what I am talking about.
Posted 7/23/2008 3:21 AM (GMT 0)
It does give me an example -- of how extreme your husband is, and how in danger your children are of suffering acutely because of this man. I believe you would do well to move on.

serafena
Posted 7/23/2008 3:30 AM (GMT 0)
Are you serious? Any post that has "children" and "gun" in it means get out now. You are the adult and those kids are your responsibility.

You can rationalize all you want but this really isn't about you or him. This is about those kids. You brought them into this world and they do not deserve to be frightened or abused. Put them first and give them a decent life. They will have no other chance at a childhood. Do not destroy this one.
Posted 7/23/2008 4:27 AM (GMT 0)
I know that I should have left when he threatened my son-if not before- just for the general terror he inflicted day in and day out. I stayed too long, and it nearly cost me the baby's life, my own; and my other children leaving me. I have been alienated from friends, family, church, my business partner, and nearly bankrupt our business. We have survived solely by the grace of the Lord. I DID leave after the second suicide incident. Granted, I did not cut off all communication, etc. I did file papers so that I could enact supervised visitation. I know that I have failed my children, but I also fail my husband and my God. I am seeking greater understanding of this problem so that I am not unfair. I would not divorce him for having cancer- but I would expect him to get all of the help that he could. I am just not certain that he is capable of even knowing that he needs help. I assure you that I put my children first. It is the thing that he hates most about me. I risked my life for each of them- literally, I home-school, I stayed in an abusive marriage with their father until I thought he would have killed me so that they would have an intact family (he was ok in front of them). There were certainly times in this amrriage that I wished that I had stayed and let him so that they wouldn't have to go through this. Yet, I feel responsible for "setting" my husband off through marrying him, since he was apparently doing better before he did.
Posted 7/23/2008 6:22 AM (GMT 0)
Dear MarthaMae-

I am so sorry if I sounded too defensive. I guess that I just already feel so guilty for having them there, and for still having him in our life. When he is wonderful, I feel guilty for keeping the baby from him at all, and I think of living back in the house by all of my children's friends instead of in a small apartment across town; and then when he is awful Iwonder why I talk to him at all. I just keep thinking that it is wrong to throw someone away if it is a disease, and it is not his fault. I keep hoping for a miracle, and looking for an answer. I guess the answer is unanimous- it just isn't the one that I want it to be. You are correct, of course, the children deserve peace and as normal a childhood as possible. I know he is more dangerous than I want to think. The judge demands armed sherriff security when he goes to court for a status conference on the separation, and the church just legally tresspassed him for threatening a policeofficer during Sunday School- and I think "how can I have this man around my children?"- then he will be so sweet and "normal," and I think "was it ever really that bad?" The next day or so, of course, he proves to me that it was. Thank you all so much for responding to my question. I have read through so many of your threads, and you are all such a wonderful group of people!
Posted 7/23/2008 10:58 PM (GMT 0)
sometimes it's like i have zero control. sometimes, when something sets me off badly enough, i would seriously injure myself or someone else before i can calm down. luckily i've only ever injured myself. but i've come close to hurting other people... i usually take my anger out on objects; walls, cars, mailboxes, cell phones, whatever's close. my stuff takes a beating from me, too. but most of this was happening while i was unmedicated. my pulse would start racing and i didn't have a single thought in my head except for what i wanted to try to destroy. haha it's silly thinking about it now, but i've had some pretty bad outbursts.
Posted 7/24/2008 12:38 AM (GMT 0)
little B-,
thank you for your honesty. I think that is what my husband goes through sometimes. His pupils get tiny. The doctor put him on blood pressure meds. It was so high that they didn't know how he was alive! I don't think that it covers all of it- because it still doesn't tell me about the times that he can stop it. He even told me once that I didn't fit any mode of thinking that he had studied. He said that he had tried everything he had learned in books and classes about people (companies that have employed him send him to classes to try to get him to be able to work with people, because he is brilliant with machines and computers, but always blows it with the people thing), and I wasn't responding the way I should to any of his tactics. He ahs even told the children when he was in a perfectly calm state that sometimes you have to have a screaming fit at people to get them to do what you want. Anyway, I do appreciate your input about the outbursts of violence- it gives me some hope that he could get them under control with proper medication.
Posted 10/24/2011 2:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hello
My father was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder 10 years ago and he did not disclose it to the family.
His condition exactly matches the symptoms of someone with Bipolar Disorder (being moody and fighting with my mother and taunting/misbehaving with her on small issues especially when it comes to finances).He kept using a drug called Qusel (Quetiapine) for more than 10 years continuously every night saying that its a sleeping pill. But recently I read the prescription of this drug and found out that it is used to treat patients suffering from Bipolar Disorder and Schizophrenia.
He does not go to any therapist or psychiatrist, instead consults her mother and sister for problems he himself creates in the family, who I am not sure, but misguides him as they are greedy and materialistic.

Please help.
Posted 10/24/2011 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
How does he manage, Candy Bar, to keep a prescription active for
10 years without seeing a psychiatrist? Something is very unusual about this, frankly. Please check further into this.

In the meantime, I would suggest that you talk to a psychiatrist regarding what's happening in your home. If you have been dealing with someone who is schizophrenic or bipolar, there are bound to be problems
for you that have developed over the years trying to manage the
situation. You may have post traumatic stress disorder as a result of
your efforts to keep things stable.

The fact that he relies on his mother and sister may mean that the
illness is getting worse and that he is regressing in behavior.

Take care of yourself now, please, and seek professional advice.

It's Genetic

Post Edited (It's Genetic) : 10/24/2011 10:25:38 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/24/2011 4:21 PM (GMT 0)
I live in a country outside of the US so the pharmacy really dont care about the doctors prescription name the drug and you can get it :(

My mother tried to consult a psychiatrist but he said that unless the patient comes to him himself, he can be of no help
Posted 10/24/2011 4:28 PM (GMT 0)
Then, I would go for help for myself, Candy Bar.  Having a bipolar
or schizophrenic person in the home creates problems for you, as well. You are holding up remarkably well considering the seriousness of his illness, and you need to have some relief.

Take care of yourself now, first.

I.G.

Post Edited (It's Genetic) : 10/24/2011 6:17:46 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/29/2013 9:02 AM (GMT 0)
This was very constructive. It bother me when you described your husbands mood as bratty but I see why and how you would. I am bipolar ii. My husband and I have struggle a lot because of it among other things, that in my opinnion are, as bad or worse. After one hospitalization I think he started to realize this thing BP was more then just a tantrum, or at least that's what I thought. He end up going to a group class with NAMI but he still does not get it, he does not "comprehend" how is it that I can not control my self. I loved the way you and your husband have set a system. I tried and tried to tell him to please let me cool down before I loose it but it's like if I told him keep going!!! I am starting to think that he is right, but then it happens and I stll have no say!!! I know that if I can stop it from escalating I might be able to keep it mild but that takes A LOT !!!! I am exhausted trying to keep it together I'm going to burst!!!
I swear to you that even though he seems to be bratty is much more than that.... I know you know that....but please let me say it, I will let me feel better..... When some one puts it as being bratty, throwing tantrums, throwing fits, anything of that sort.... It minimizes, us as humans, as the illed, and the illness. I am not saying you do, not at all! you seem to be an awesome wife and mom and human for going through what you do everyday, you seem very loving and I know it probably took you a while to get there. It makes me sad that people that are not BP have to describe, the episodes or crisis in that way and as I read more experiences or "advise" I get so so upset for the way people expresses about BPP or their BP love ones, and at the same time I try to understand the reason why this is, some of it is because some people are just plain stupid or just ignorant or legitimately ignorant. I try to put my self in your nonBPP shoes to see what can I do or change and stop hurting others and it just gets me deeper and deeper in to a dark place, thinking, how miserable life is for you " The normal" to have to live with us "the damage" . The reason why I'm here in this forum is because I am searching " can BPP control their emotions?"

I try and try I do, and i am going to keep trying and trying untill i brake a bit more and more and then we all kow what could possibly happened.

It doesn't really work What's left.

I thank you if you are reading this or not for you have allowed me to vent. I thank you for sharing a pice of your life.

Ps
Do you agree with the person after you wrote " BPP are excellent manipulators? If you do how is that? if thru i feel it implys that we are cruel





glassgirl said...
This is a question I've thought about this for quite a while, and studied my son and husbands behavior trying to determine this.

This is what I've found.....the answer depends on the person and is as individual as the disease itself. With my son, there are clear signs that it is bipolar and not just a 12 year old being a brat. There are times when he can't even remember what he's done, his whole face and body language changes, and he becomes a thoughtless, sarcastic, hateful little boy with an arrogance, and spite of a grown man. When he's not manic he acts out with his normal personality, a happy go lucky, sweet, respectful 12 yr. old, he can hear the word no and is disappointed but accepting, he is respectful and thoughtful, even when being told something he doesn't want to hear.

My husbands personality is normally thoughtful, very noncombative, and reasonable. (I don't see too much of this side lately!)
When he is exibiting bipolar symptoms his verbal control goes out the window. He is hot tempered, hurtful, and downright bratty!
See if you can think about a happy day you've had in the past with your husband and what his personality traits were at the time.
Can you think of a time when he has shown self control in a positive way? How do they differ from him during his bad behavior?
Just remember that even though his behavior may be a symptom IT'S NOT OKAY for him to be mean or hurtful. He has to know that you expect to be treated with respect, and aren't willing to accept and less. If he knows you respect yourself and are looking out for YOU, he will have more respect. Even in Bipolar, it's like my father taught me, People will treat you the way you let them. In turn, always try to treat him with respect, even if he makes you want to scream.
I find the best way to accomplish this is to tell him something along these lines-- "Although I understand you may feel justified at the moment for the way you are (acting,feeling,etc.) this is not the way you usually behave. I'm not going to engage or tolerate this type of behavior. I will speak with you when I can see you are feeling more in control. Then go to another room, take a walk, whatever you need to do to create some space. He probably won't understand right then. You can't reason with a person who is unreasonable at the time, and that's okay! He will eventually come back down to earth.

What my husband and I have done is make an action plan in writing. He doesn't always stick to it at the time, but I do. I gently remind him of our agreement, and then walk away. I refuse to engage him when he is not showing respectful, good behavior.
I've created a place of retreat in the house for me. If his mania lasts all night and I feel I can't sleep beside him we've agreed that I can stay in my retreat until I see he is in a more reasonable mode.

I also keep a journal of the good and bad, everyday. It's good to be able to look back on for both of you. For us it has helped me see clear patterns of behavior, and what triggers them.

Post Edited (Frufru) : 6/29/2013 3:12:05 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 12/6/2013 12:43 PM (GMT 0)
How does one get a prescription for seroquel for ten years without a psychiatrist? easy, you go see a GP. GPs can and do prescribe it. For ten years I have got mine from my GP.

I must admit, I find many comments on this thread disturbing. I'm sorry but the bratty, abusive, controlling behaviours described are not due to bipolar. Nor are "outburts" or "tantrums" or whatever you want to call them.

I made the mistake for a decade excusing my exhusband's behaviour as mental illness. Yes he has major depression with psychotic features and yes he has a personality disorder, but his outbursts and tantrums were not part of his depression. They were purely a part of his personality disorder.

The kind of behaviour people are describing are NOT part of bipolar. Either your spouse is just a brat who happens to also have bipolar, or they have personality disorder (probably borderline, or anti social or narcissistic) as well as bipolar or just a personality disorder (no bipolar at all).

It's insulting to those who genuinely have bipolar to equate any person's bad behaviour with having bipolar.
Posted 12/6/2013 5:12 PM (GMT 0)
Butterflywings79

This thread is from June of this year and until you found it nobody else has posted.

This forum is for people experiencing bipolar disorder.  While we do appreciate and respond to questions for non-bipolar family, friends, and partners, we will not be able to respond to non-bipolar members coming here for personal support, venting, ranting, or complaining about another person's bipolar symptoms. 

Thank you for your understanding.

Kitt

Posted 12/7/2013 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
stkitt I think you misunderstood. I have been diagnosed as bipolar for more than a decade now. Which is why I made the comment I did. I find it disturbing that anyone blames bad behaviour on having bipolar. It's an insult to those of us who have it.
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