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a lot to deal with/part 2....footballfan & dutchie

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Posted 8/19/2007 10:39 PM (GMT 0)
It is kind of a strange day.  I went to a church this morning, that I haven't been to in years.  People were there that remembered me, and welcomed me back. It was very nice.  I am at a point in my life where I want to guard myself against negative things in my life.  I want spirituality to be a part of my life again.  I find a comfort in it.  What feels strange is this feeling I have.  So many have told me about forgiving myself.  I don't feel it, and don't know how to get to that point.  For some reason it feels like this physical thing I just can't put my hands on.  Perhaps I am just being impatient again.

I went to a support group for the first time this week.  It was helpful to be able to relate to the thought processes of others.  Although footballfan has been wonderful and supportive I think there are some things he just simply doesn't understand because they really are not logical.  We went through a really difficult time a week or so ago.  I felt completely down,defeated,hopeless.  We went over to his parents for a visit, they know everything and found out even more detail that day.  Although very shocked, they continue to be extrememly supportive.  I am in awe at Footballfan's level of love and support.  Many days I just feel sad that I cheated him out of feeling the same way. Maybe it is a self-esteem issue, guilt, I'm not sure, but at times I feel very undeserving; and that is why I am doing what I can for myself to rid my mind of such negative thoughts. I just started a book about being thankful for what you have NOW......and finding pleasure in the present.

Anyway....feeling kind of down when I feel I should be more up.  Any thoughts or suggestions.

Dutchie

 

Posted 8/20/2007 3:35 AM (GMT 0)
Dutchie, the pressure you put on yourself is enormous with the “should have’s”, and “could have’s”…etc. Living in the present means taking each day, each moment, as it comes, recognizing the joy, shifting or making up for mistakes when possible. It doesn’t mean flogging yourself on a regular basis for being undeserving. Yes, you screwed up. Yes, you have guilt. So, continue to put the work, like you are, into the repair of that. It is like the saying…when you know better, you do better. Accept, you didn’t know better, or you would have done better. And now you do! SSOOOOOOO….you are now doing better and give yourself the credit for that. Stay in the moment and when the negative thoughts come, say to your self…”that was then, this is now. I know better now, so I am doing better now - and by living my life this way I will continue to try and making up for not having known better before”. Make sense?

Discipline yourself to not give into the negative that keeps you stuck and unproductive. Train your brain to support positive thinking. Positive breeds positive, the same as negative breed’s negative, in thoughts and actions. You are in your retraining process. Will you be perfect…NO, so default when it goes wrong to all the above “positive” mantra stuff….and work on that shift back to positive breeds positive, when you know better you do better - in action and thought.

Good luck and give yourself a pat on the back once in a while for the good work you are doing. LFW
Posted 8/21/2007 2:32 AM (GMT 0)
Dutchie, you have made the progress and are taking the steps that most of us wish our bp spouses were capable of taking.  LFW is right. I know you have heard it before but guilt is a useless emotion unless it prompts change. Well it certainly sounds like you are trying to own your bp, making the ugly baby yours.  When you feel down or get that guilt wave, why don't you write down the things you have done and are trying to do to be every bit the good person you are and that your husband loves.    Even if at the moment you can only come up with a simple gesture, like simply telling your husband that you are having an off day, its a step in the right direction (just think before when you were hiding everything, opening up is a great step).  

Baby steps. You'll flop every now and again but you will get back up and walk again.

Posted 8/21/2007 3:37 PM (GMT 0)
In my logical head I know about the baby steps and I know that guilt is destructive, and I know the negative thoughts won't do me any good....HOWEVER when I see the pain that I have caused footballfan, it is the most pain I am, in turn experiencing. The fact of the matter is, although bp played its part in my decision making..it was in the end my decision. I know that and I have to own that. I believe in the love we share, but the pain I see is difficult to watch and difficult to go through in turn. Footballfan has said that he views himself as a "sucker" if he stays, that he is setting himself up to go through it again. I have told him that I feel like I have been to Hell...and getting as far away from that lifestyle of lying, cheating, avoiding and not owning up.....that is not the person I am. There is no question in my mind or heart of knowing that I will wake up each morning with a renewed view of the person I am.

Like I said, in my logical head I understand this, but seeing and feeling the pain is just so sad (for lack of a better word). Footballfan deserves the best in his life. I know that is me and my love for him. I know my place now as wife and mom.

Thank you for your respones.
Dutchie
Posted 8/22/2007 4:13 AM (GMT 0)
Dutchie, my son just shared with me today that although he is messing up his med's occasionally (which I always catch by the way - like if he forgets his morning meds) he is finally figuring out how to mentally override how he "feels" to then hold himself together until he levels off again. This is real progress for him. I share that with you, because, perhaps you can do the same thing??? If your "logical" mind can rationalize that the guilt and such doesn't serve you, then "override it" at the moments when you catch yourself indulging it; because it pulls you down negatively otherwise. Plus, I think sad is a great description of how it feels to see the pain in Footballfan. And sadness is a process of grief. But again, all your lives will transform in time with every correct step you make moment to moment to get through it, change, heal, grow...etc. Just stay in truth, integrity, loyalty and love. It is all accumulative, not overnight. So...it sounds like you are needed to be the strong one right now for your relationship. Therefore stay focused and steadfast for both of you while you recognize Footballfan's pain. And while he says he feels like if he forgives you it makes him a "sucker" - give him the time he needs to learn it doesn't make him that - because you will have earned through step by step of good choices and behavior – a renewed trust he can have in you, in your union, and you may see that will change. Just some thoughts for you my dear....LFW
Posted 8/25/2007 1:34 PM (GMT 0)

Hi Dutchie,

My dear friend, I hope you are well today, because you deserve to be.  I have been so busy with school, I haven't had much time for my wonderful online support group.  This support here really helps me, and being so busy lately, I've felt the effects of needing it and missing it.

Anyway, it's the weekend.  I'll be doing some housework, but a lot of homework and studying this weekend.  My bf had to work today.  I'll be checking in on HW today and tomorrow for sure and then hopefully that will help me have a better start for Monday.

You have been in my thoughts.  And I have read your posts in this "part 2".  I am really wondering how your bp support group is going.  The one I was in was my turn around point, not only in my illness, but in my life.  The occupational therapists (OT's) we had were really great.  I believe that is a huge factor for a support group, because sometimes, it's hard to get everyone talking or even to show up.  But our OT's were so helpful.  I think it's so important you're in this group and keep going with it, because it will allow you that time to focus on what you are going through.  It will help you manage your bp.

It upsets me knowing you're having such a hard time with feeling guilty.  I would also like to know what your counsellor/therapist is saying?  I can't remember quite how it goes...If you and Footballfan are seeing a therapist both together and separtely?  I guess what I would like to know is if you guys are seeing someone together for the marriage, what does that therapist say?  I know they mostly listen, but are they giving you any pointers or things to think about?  I know that you want nothing more than to keep your marriage and family together.  I want that for you as well. 

I want you to know that you are doing everything you can to help yourself and your marriage, and honestly that is all you can do.  I know that's hard, but sometimes acceptance can be extremely healing if you really understand it and believe it.

Take care Dutchie, let me know how you're doing and how the support group is going.  ((((hug))))

Posted 8/27/2007 3:48 AM (GMT 0)
Mogs....thank you so much for your kind words. I think of you often as well and hope that school is going well for you. Remember to take a breather every so often so you do not become overwhelmed. Sorry this solatein the weekend, but I hope you had a good one and I will be thinking of you this week while you are at school.

I have only been to the support group once (only offered once a week) this past week we were suppose to go camping but ending up cancelling due to the weather. I ended up missing it because we had Footballfan's brother/and family over for a campfire. This week we are going camping so I will miss it again. After that school is back in and schedules will be back to normal hopefully. The one session I did go to was very helpful. It was good to hear alot of the same thought processes. I felt anxious getting myself there just because it was unknown, but Footballfan was extremely supportive and encouraging. I was given lots of reading material and the "text" they are working from is called "Mind over Mood". The support group is actually for mood disorders in general. It was a group of 9, and I think it was 5 of us that have been dx'd with bp. I was saddened when one of the members started talking about the extreme feelings of lonliness. It brought up emotion of recalling those feelings. I was however shocked at the amount of people that do not take their meds regularly. Only 2 of us (me being one and the leader being the other) take them regularly. I look forward to going again, I believe it will be of great help in recognizing and understanding this bp.

Footballfan and I see our therapist together for the most part. A few times I have gone on my own and once he has gone on his own. She has been very supportive of us working through this. She helps me one a personal level as well giving me "homework" to work on to identify feelings and thought processes. I am so thankful she has become a part of our lives.

I continue to keep my focus on what I can now identify as the important things in my life. Although I do worry about Footballfan and the guilt I carry I am feeling more capable everyday of dealing with those feelings.

You take care of yourself,a good week at school; you will be in our thoughts.

Dutchie
Posted 8/27/2007 11:05 PM (GMT 0)
Dutchie, It is great that you saw in your support group how some did not take their medication regularly. I am sure you could also see how they complained - I am sure - of the constant changing moods, things not being consistent for them...etc. They don't realize that it is the meds that help keep them in better control, without them, they are not. My son was saying to me that he is beginning to feel he doesn't need them all the time. I put a stop to that right away and explained it is BECAUSE he takes them everyday he feels so normal. Without them, he wouldn't feel - or behave - that way. It is the meds, when they are the right ones, which put the choice of control back into your own hands. It is great that you could see for yourself how that is so true. Stick with it and don't fall into the trap of that kind of faulty thinking.

We went on a mini trip with the kids this last weekend, and my hubby spent half the time complaining and behaving "overwhelmed". It was REALLY driving me crazy. I was feeling pretty annoyed inside, but I am proud that I kept my mouth shut (pretty much) and it didn't escalate. But I will say, I don't know if it is a personality issue, or a BP issue, but in his humor, I don't get how he can't hear that putting down people is not funny. Especially when you are the one being used in his humor! God, it is on the list of the top 5 issues I have with him. I do so hate it. Maybe someone else would laugh it off. Maybe in the end it is my issue? But I find it tiring and insulting to deal with. Oh well, I don't think any marriage is easy... Other than this issue, I think it was a good little family trip.

LFW
Posted 8/28/2007 2:36 PM (GMT 0)
LFW

I am so glad you and your family were able to get away. I think family trips even though they are not meant to be can be a stressful thing on there own (packing,getting to your destination, traffic, vehicle problems--if something is going to get your blood pressure boiling I think it is GETTING to your destination) I do look forward to our little camping trip this week as well. I find things do no irritate me the way they used to. I was talking with Footballfan last night, saying before all this came out I had so much bottled up inside me that even the little things were becoming irritants and stressors in my life. The strange thing is that I had myself convinced I was the least stressed person around, and had they best attitude and outlook on life....at least that was what I think I portrayed, meanwhile inside I was a churned up mess.

It feels so good to have focus and to finally have some confidence building inside me of what I can accomplish.

My question to you is how are you dealing with the issues that cause you stress. You must have and need some type of way to vent. What happens if you say to your husband "you are driving me CRAZY"!! Again in our "logical" minds it makes sense that if you are doing something that irritates your spouse...you would want to stop. Is he not aware, that what he is saying may not be appropriate....is it a defense thing for him to put others down?
Just wondering what your take on it is.

I wish I was is a postion to send you some wonderful piece of advice, like the many postings you have sent us. However like I have said I am still trying to wrap my head around this bp as well. The biggest thing I have taken from all of this is to TALK, and BE HONEST. From our perspective the honesty is what Footballfan has trouble trusting in still....but I understand that. I think he questions how honest I am being about my feelings. It gets a little frustrating, but I have to just take comfort in knowing how I feel in my heart and portraying that in the way I live each day.

For all the kind and supportive words you have sent us, I just want to return the favour....so if my words are of no real help, I hope having us over here to listen is a help to you.
Take care LFW

Dutchie
Posted 8/28/2007 8:57 PM (GMT 0)
Dutchie, I don't honestly think he means any malice by it...ever. I think he thinks - he is being funny. But it is done with digs, mini insults, setting you up as the brunt of jokes...etc. Then when you try and tell him he needs to stop, it isn't funny, you don't like it and it is pissing you off...he retorts with things like..."you're too sensitive - oh lighten up!", or "okay, forget it, I'll just stop talking - because you can't take a joke", or "fine, fine, we'll do everything your way - serious and dramatic". And he pouts and acts like a child, and/or it triggers him into being nasty. So, most times I just say nothing, let it roll off my back, don't engage with him and then try to change the subject the way we do with kids to distract them and change their thought process.

As to how I stress relief, I talk to friends, mumble to myself to vent in the moment and then let it go, focus on positive things, or just focus on the work at hand and...I just get on with it. Once in a blue moon, I will have had enough and then pop and unload at him. But I always have to be responsible about my words or it will set him off down a bad cycle and then it is counter productive to my life and the kids to have him in a bad place for days on end growling about everything at me in retaliation. Between the two of us, clearly I am the more forgiving and accepting person. But don't think I don't have my limits, or boundries. I DO. But I have always tried to accept people for who they are, recognize their foibles and faults, and focus on the positives about them knowing that we all mess up here and there. It’s funny, he needs to talk in short spurts or he gets overwhelmed easily and I could go on for hours, so we have to constantly compromise on that one. I have learned the art of containment until more appropriate times. It is not easy sometimes, but it has allowed us to stay married. And to be honest, being on this site has helped me considerably being around others who "get it", from both sides of the coin. I have learned a lot. Some things I am approaching differently or viewing differently, and that has also helped a lot. My son maturing recently and having him recognize in his father what he does, and being able to speak with him more maturely about it has helped me, and I see my son loving his dad completely, but starting to choose a different way of handling things sometimes than he knows his dad would because he sees how he doesn’t like the way his dad does it. It is things like that which also help me tremendously. SO...as with any human being on the planet, I have my good days and bad. I try and learn about life as I go and be honest with myself and my feelings. Plus, my family has good support systems around us with top professionals, family and friends…etc, so when questions come up, or I am at my wits end, I have good resources to reach out to for help or answers. Thanks for your good thoughts and questions. LFW
Posted 8/31/2007 9:40 PM (GMT 0)
Dutchie,

I am glad you are taking steps to make life better, like talking about it or going to support group. Those are the steps to make things better. I am sorry that you are having a hard time with dealing with things in the past. I wish there was something I can say or do that makes things better. But I can't, just pace yourself and work on getting better. Take it one day at a time, and things will surely get better.
Posted 9/2/2007 5:55 AM (GMT 0)
Hi D&F, If I recall what D said, you are on a family camping trip this week. Hope you are having a great time TOGETHER and as a family. Just thought I'd let you know I was thinking about you both. LFW
Posted 9/3/2007 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the thoughts LFW and olivia, they are much appreciated and much needed.
Our camping trip went pretty good overall. I must admit that when I arrived at the campsite (I had been working) I wasn't in an up mood and it did affect Dutchie. Something happened the following day that surprised me. Dutchie and our oldest were on a wagon ride around the park and me and the youngest were at the site. I had made a fire and she was sitting watching it when a guy from the campground came over and said we were on the incorrect site and we needed to move, long story short, they had made a mistake, I agreed to move but had bargained for a free night and firewood since I had a fire going. When Dutchie returned she saw me and the camp guy moving our stuff and she walked up with fire in her eyes. I calmed her down and explained the situation to her. The part that surprised me was that she was ready for an arguement with this guy to protect her family and not simply looking out for herself. Normally she would have been submissive so nobody thought of her as "a female dog".
I am really struggling with seeing Dutchie doing everything right and still not being convinced that it is real. Yesterday she got up and took the girls to church and in the evening she went to my parents church to see a choir of 10-12 year olds from Africa perform. My parents have 3 of the little guys staying with them for a few days and that is where Dutchie and the girls are right now. In the morning she and my mom are going to a bible study course together. I feel everything is real but my mind just can't give in to it. Maybe more time will help. I don't know.
Posted 9/4/2007 4:41 AM (GMT 0)
Footballfan...It's called fear, and YES, big strong men experience it too!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time is a great healer. Don't try and get your mind to give in to it, before you know it, you will slowly drop your guard to her again. It is not a quick process…ever. It is gradual from all the little moments adding up. You're just beginning to feel the effects of them starting to add up. Before you know it, it has replaced the past and a rebirth of trust emerges. Just don't fight it - that's your job here. Acknowledge the good too (as I am sure you are). Then, when the negative feelings come up, check them against the current realities and then make a conscious choice of how much power you want to give the feelings of doubt on THAT day. You will find little by little, that issue comes up less and less, and eventually....POOF, you will realize that you haven't had those feelings in quite some time and you will acknowledge yourself and Dutchie for having grown. Which you both ARE! Good for the two of you. This process could take a year or two, but as you can see...step by step, it IS possible to get there together. LFW
Posted 9/4/2007 2:56 PM (GMT 0)
I have a lot of worries about this coming Thursday. The girls are back in school and I will be working days on Thursday and Friday (12 hour shifts). During the summer it has given me a lot of assurance that everything would be ok with Dutchie because the girls were always around. I have explained to Dutchie that any good feelings about us I tend to push away because I have told her that I will not go through all of this again and with all my doubts and with the past my mind tells me that if I let my guard down I will be setting myself back up again. LFW - I know that trust is something that will take a long time to get back but at this time I can't even see it in the distance. It is extremely difficult knowing that he is not far away any time I am at work, he lives just across town and he works even closer. Dutchie says that it is not even a thought in her head anymore and she is totally disgusted with the whole matter.
I struggle with how to get closure on this. I know I would love more than anything to go over and flatten this guy but I know I will be the one that pays for it and as Dutchie says, if that happens then he will win. Dutchie has said that she would like to write his wife a letter explaining things and apologizing but we both fear that this could explode out of control and make our lives worse. Dutchie says that he will pay for his sins at sometime in his life but that doesn't do it for me, I want to be the one responsible for pain in his life. I know that is vengeful but I want him to pay for what he has done to my life. The thought of Dutchie taking all the heat for this while he just moves on thinking he got away with it angers me, he is so gutless and I really have a hard time understanding how Dutchie could have respected him. Any thoughts on what we should do?
Posted 9/4/2007 4:52 PM (GMT 0)
Footballfan, it is so understandable that you are having anxiety about the kids going back to school and Dutchie having time on her hands again. You have seen the changes in her in the "setting and set up" that summer brought. Now, it is a new set up and setting, so you will all walk through the anxiety step by step as you have done. I do believe it when Dutchie says she is disgusted looking back at the choices she made...the feeling of "I must have been out of my mind!", type of thing. Only, now you see, to some degree...she was. But now she's not. Breathe through the experience. Step by step you will both get there. If you look back at the summer...you were pleased and felt good by what you saw. The successes will continue to add up and calm your fears, and there may be a few mistakes too, so stay open and forgiving... Now...stop that thought you are having right now with my saying that! The mistakes will not be anything having to do with another man, "the guy" or anything like that I am sure. SSSSSSOOOOOOO, rein yourself in now and don't over react when "whatever it is that may happen, happens". It is just that we are ALL humans and none of us is perfect............you may be the one to make the mistakes too - not Dutchie. Remember that.

#1) I understand the thought that you feel "this guy" is getting away free and clear. But believe me...he is not. God has a funny way of teaching people lessons. When you and Dutchie finally get past this, and I do believe in you both and feel you will in time, YOU both will come out the victors...not him. You will find your smiles again from the inside towards each other, you will have genuine love and trust between you; YOU will have gone through hell and back and emerged out the other side HAPPY and STRONGER as couple, for it. He will never truly be happy...NEVER. He will NEVER have what you have with Dutchie in his whole life. He won't even know the meaning with ANY woman he is with, or with any kids he has. In its end, his life will know true tragedy on so many levels…Karma is a ***** when it comes a calling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True intimacy and genuine love will always elude him because he is void inside...he is not capable. You beating him to a pulp will be the furthest thing from teaching him a lesson that there is. Bruises on the outside heal. But YOU BOTH finding your happiness together again will KILL HIM! He will carry that failure with him inside forever and it will fester and rot him from the inside out.

#2) I don't think it is Dutchie who should write the wife...But I think it is appropriate if YOU feel the need to do it. Then it is a spouse to spouse thing. But only do it if you need this in order to continue to heal and really let it go after this. You can share in your letter the pain Dutchie and this man caused you, and you can send Dutchie’s regrets to this woman…as long as you ALSO share that Dutchie was ill, is getting better now, and completely committed to repairing your marriage; that the two of you are committed to working this through to the other side...together! I guarantee - his marriage does not have to back bone to achieve this. Therefore...YOU WIN...right there, right then. You would need to do this from an honest place where it is about YOU letting go of HIM, not Dutchie. She already has. It needs to be about YOU saying what you need to in order for YOU to let him go – that this letter is about YOU healing. But if YOU can exorcize him in this letter from yourself, then you will recognize him as only a symptom of Dutchie’s illness and what was "off" in your marriage; because it really is no longer about HIM. There may even come a day when you actually feel like thanking him. Because if the marriage continued as it was, you would never achieve the true love and intimacy you are about to now have together, now that you are fixing it and walking through this fire together. Does this all make any sense to you? He was a symptom of the "sickness" in your marriage that you are both now fighting to heal (and you will succeed at). And that sickness was about BOTH of you, not just Dutchie and her untreated BP (although yes, that played its part as well). I hope that all makes sense to you. Dutchie already said bye-bye to this guy and meant it. She CHOSE you. Now you have to.

Let me know your thoughts. Hope that helps a bit. LFW
Posted 9/4/2007 4:54 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry Olivia for the length...I am really trying not to be so long winded, but sometimes there is no way around it for me in order to get out what I am trying to say. I'll keep working on it. LFW
Posted 9/5/2007 11:47 PM (GMT 0)
LFW - You give such great advice but do you honestly think that someday I would actually think of thanking him? I understand the meaning behind your words, the thought that a mistake was the thing that brought us closer together but really, thank him!! Dutchie read the posting and commented that she really didn't care if he was breathing or not, so in no way does she feel that this potentially had a positive side to it. Yes it has been the end to a very destructive life for Dutchie but in the end we both look back and truelly wish she could have just talked to me about her feelings instead of burying everything and letting it fester until it got to this point. I get your point but I would have much rather had him talk to her as a friend and convince her that she needed to talk to me. That would have been great but that is not reality and there is no turning back the clock, so we move on and deal with what we need to.
We went to the councellor today. She said the same thing, that I should be the one to write to his wife. She said that the wife would be a lot more accepting if it was coming from a person in the same spot rather than the person that did the damage. I still haven't decided if I will for the simple reason that I fear my wife and kids could be negatively affected by it. I don't want to be selfish and I don't know if it is selfish to think of taking this route. I do honestly believe that his wife deserves to know, she didn't ask for this, she deserves to know the person that she lives with. Yes this could put a lot of pain in his life and that is something I would like more than anything but I don't know if I want to tell her for the right reason or for the thought that it could mess up his life. Thoughts??
Dutchie seems to have gone through such a transformation in her life. She has so much focus that I have never seen before. I got used to the reality that if she came up to something that was difficult it was a given that she would quit. She ALWAYS did. In the end I wound up losing a lot of respect for her without even knowing it, I came to expect her to just give up when the going got the slightest bit tough. She is at her support group right now, she does absolutely everything possible to improve herself and I feel small for having doubts about it all. But I do. She asks me to give her time to prove that this is all real. I actually told her she was an inspiration to me for the exercise and weight training she is doing, she is so focused on her goals, I just wish she had of found this focus a year ago.
I tell her that I am very proud of her. I really am. She appears to be the person I always knew she could be. I just hope it is real, not for me, but for her.
Posted 9/6/2007 4:35 AM (GMT 0)
Footballfan, the "thanking" is a figure of speech. You've heard someone say before that they thank their illness for giving them the wake-up call they needed. It is the same type of thing. As painful as this has been for you, and it has been - and at times will continue to be for a while to come - the fact is the "I wish...this", "I just wish....that", is what a perfect world would look like. But, alas, NONE of us has that. Our perfect little worlds are fraught with imperfections; and more complicated than most because we have BP spouses. It is in the accepting of THAT, which allows us to view our lives as real. We only really know joy, because we also know pain, and therefore know appreciation. Sadly, one can't exist without the other for anyone on this planet. But, before you say it....let me...it sure would be nice if it didn't get to the extremes of bad before we wake up, listen and learn. Very true! However, even Oprah says it all the time...first it is a whisper, a knock and then a dam bulldozer. Sadly for many, it requires being flattened by the bulldozer many times before most hear it calling, or are ready to do something about it.

As to should you, or shouldn't you, write the letter? And, are you doing it from the right place in your heart? First of all, I can't answer that for you. That requires soul searching within you, and only you would know that. My opinion however is that you are probably not there YET, but when you get there, only you will know if you should, or still feel the need, to do it for you to really and truly be complete about it. Only you will know if you are really ready. Remember, the true test is whether that will REALLY be the end for you - regarding him; that you are ready to see him truly as nothing more than a participant in the illness that existed between you and Dutchie. And that requires you taking ownership of those issues and don't NEED to blame him anymore. (And don't misunderstand...I do think he is a man missing a soul, conscience and companionate heart - basically scum trash). But I do want to say a few things to you about what you said. #1, it is not your job to tell his wife what kind of man she is married to - she probably already knows. If you need to share with her for your OWN healing...well then, that is a different story. #2, Again I say...Karma is a B---H when it comes a calling...(and that also goes both ways so be careful and be honest with yourself) and believe me, in life you reap what you sow and when you really need the help. And at some point in our lives...we ALL need help. For some, whose karma stinks…it ain’t there kiddo! #3 For whatever reason that existed, this is what it took for Dutchie to "turn it around" and get the help she needed: getting the proper dx of BP, sticking to finding the right meds and committing to turning it around. And most likely until that occurred she was powerless to some degree to be the person she always wanted, and you could see her being. But now she is on meds, getting help, gaining strength to count on herself and be who SHE always wanted to be too. But again, until the dx and the help of the meds, it most likely wouldn't have happened. And things getting THIS bad are what prompted this occurrence for you all. Does that make sense?

I’m not surprised you are torn between being proud, happy and inspired by her - AND – not trusting that it will last, or what you see. THAT will take time. You are not small for that. And it is okay to want her to be all she can for YOU too. You don’t need to be so selfless here. She is your wife – you are partnered with her and it is okay to want your wife to be all that she can be in the positive. Plus, Footballfan…look back and see how far you both have already come in just the last 4 months…just keep going. Just stay committed to getting to the other side together. Just keep doing YOUR work too. After all, you want Dutchie proud of you too, don’t you? I truly believe you WILL get to the other side of this and be lovingly joyous together in the end with great trust between you. Your kids will reap the benefits for all their lives too. The lesson that with adversity, you don’t give up, you fight to make it better. If you don’t like something you did, or about yourself, you DO have the power to change it. You even have the power to forgive (yourself and/or others) when the person is truly remorseful and committed to fix it. Great lessons you are passing on to them. Be proud of yourselves…LFW
Posted 9/6/2007 4:35 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry again Olivia! LFW
Posted 9/6/2007 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
I hope everyone who reads these postings is understanding the blessings I have come to realize in this husband of mine. He says I make him proud, but I don't think he understands the degree of pride I have in him. Though he understandably goes through his times of anger, depression, ultimate sadness, etc. his support for me has never wavered. Though I believe he is still scared to give me his heart, his love for me has remained strong. I see in him true inspiration for myself. I am finally "getting" what it means to love someone. Everyday I find more joy and strength in the person I continue to become. It is through Footballfan,the girls, and bringing faith back into my life that I have received this inspiration to want to grow as a person and in this relationship. I am so thankful for Footballfan; he has such an amazing strength in him that I have been fortunate enough to share in. I feel I truly am blessed.

I have some anxiety today. I am home alone, the girls are in school and he is at work all day. I know this has been a worrisome thought for him. But as with everything I know it will take time as he finds his trust in my commitment again. There is a part of me that just wants to have the ability to take away the pain I have caused. I have plenty of things to do....I have drive and I have focus, so a day alone no longer worries me.
I can't say enough about how different I feel. To have my brain working at a "normal" pace is sooooo much better. It is so different...as I have said before, I never realized anything was abnormal before being dx'd.

LFW thank you so much for your supportive words, they truly are helpful. I think Footballfan and I new what you were trying to say in the other posting, but seeing the word "thankful" was almost like a knife in the side. It was just a hard word to get past, because though we both recognize becoming closer and having the chance to grow both individually and as a couple, it would be impossible to say I am, or he is, thankful for this situation. Ultimately yes the best road would have been, no mental health issues and a strong close relationship that could endure anything right from day one. But like you said it takes us all experiencing pain, to ultimately be able to understand in joy and appreciation. I became void to both of these concepts. But to now have them introduced to my life and truly understand them......WOW....I'm not letting go!!!

thanks for listening/reading;
Dutchie
Posted 9/6/2007 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
I know you feel the joy now for so many things, and I see that in your postings, and Footballfan's too. Step by step, moment by moment added together you're doing it together. I am glad you understood what I was saying....it really is a concept for about 4+ years from now, not really right this minute. Sorry if it was too premature of me to say. I am just so darn proud of you both.

Did you catch any fish on your camping trip BTW? Hubby and I aren't exactly the outdoors camping type. We would like to love it, but are so clueless wouldn't know where to start. We'd probably be sitting ducks for bears...they'd look at us and think...easy pickings...LUNCH! Roughing it for us is hotel and roomservice! The idea of sleeping on the floor...torturous for us. We feel too old to start now. Silly of us, I'm sure. I have no doubt that we are missing out on some great fun as a family. But fishing at the lake and going to the hotel and getting pampered and room service holds it's appeal. Plus, since we are not great fisherman so it's not like we catch a lot. But do have fun trying! LFW
Posted 9/6/2007 11:14 PM (GMT 0)
LFW,

No worries, just type what you feel.
Posted 9/7/2007 12:46 AM (GMT 0)
Olivia...Thank you! LFW
Posted 9/7/2007 11:38 PM (GMT 0)
I just finished my two day shifts. Yesterday wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Today was a lot more difficult. Dutchie left a message at work at 9:20 that she wasn't feeling great today, she said that she was going to drive to the town I work in (about 20-30 minutes away) and go to the park to go for a walk and do some reading and then come up and see me. I phoned her back a few minutes later and asked her what she was talking about, I told her that I couldn't go for lunch but she said she was coming to town anyways and would come up to see me for a few minutes. I told her that it was odd that she would want to do this considering the heat and humidity and the fact that we live 2 minutes away from a park where we go walking all the time. I know anyone reading this will think "what is he complaining about?" Please understand that over the past year I have heard many many stories of where she was and why it took her so long to get home. As soon as she insisted that this was what she was going to do an automatic flag went off in my head "what is she up to now". I know, I know... overthinking right??? But this is the place where I am in my life, it may not be right but it is what it is. She left another message for me at 12:45 that she was in the parking lot with a drink for me, I went out and talked for 2 minutes and then went back to work. When I arrived home I wasn't in a good mood, the mental movies and the what if's had been plagueing me all day. We talked but when I am down sometimes talk doesn't matter. I feel an evergrowing wall coming up that makes me want to push away, the feeling that nobody will ever do this to me again. She told me that she would never hurt me again, I responded by saying that I would never let her hurt me again. I tried to explain to her last night the difficulties and conflict that are always there. I asked her "how do you think it feels to be in love with someone and have no trust in that person at the same time?", just an overwhelming feeling of "what's coming next?".
Anyone that has gone through this knows what I am talking about. Most people will think that I am making a big deal out of nothing but when there is no trust everything is a huge question mark. I don't have a question. I am just writing this stuff down so maybe someone in the same position as Dutchie was will think twice about it when they see the damage it can do. No I am not blaming her for all of this, I do see mistakes I have made.
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