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a lot to deal with/part 2....footballfan & dutchie

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Posted 9/8/2007 5:32 PM (GMT 0)
Footballfan,

Trust is one of hardest things to gain back, and I am sorry that you are upset. When I first read the post I was like how sweet, but with the history you have with Dutchie, I was like oh oh. But only time will give you back the trust you are seeking. You both should have a talk about it and see where it goes. Best Wushes!
Posted 9/8/2007 7:18 PM (GMT 0)

Footballfan, You didn't say whether what Dutchie and you talked about when you went to the car was strange or not.  I completely understand your trepidation with the situation.  But, for all you know, she did that to give herself something committed and positive to do that kept her OUT of trouble perhaps?  It isn't just you who must relearn to trust her, she is in the process of needing to learn how to trust herself too.  And on a day that doesn't feel right to her, she might just need to reach out and connect for even just that one or two minutes.  Both of you breathe.  With the kids in school, you both knew there would be new challenges.  You are learning what to do when things feel strange.  It's no wonder you were "triggered" off Footballfan, and from the sound of it, as odd as it seemed, it looks like Dutchie did some positive moves to ensure her wellbeing...no?  Step by step, with the good moves, and on occasion the boneheaded ones...you're getting there.  Just remember, while your senses can go up - TRY not to over react about it giving it so much power.  Stay as honest and as open as you both can with those feelings as they arrive.  Sometimes talking about it right then isn't necessary.  Just sharing...."this is how I feel - blah, blah, blah - justified or not".  Then letting it go is best.  No discussion necessary.  Then everyone knows how everyone else is feeling until a time when you both are up to a discussion about it.  Plus, it will give both of you time to reflect on the others thoughts or motivations from their perspective before you eventually do talk about it.  All good!  LFW 

Posted 9/8/2007 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
Olivia and LFW:

Thanks for your responses. I was clear on the fact that Footballfan thought what I was doing was odd (coming to another town to go for a walk and read) However, if I had of realized that it would have put question in his heart...I never would have done it. I was feeling really blah (bloated and fat....if you know what I mean ladies!) I felt like a good walk would make me feel better...then I came up with, if I went for a walk in the town Footballfan is in than it would be that much easier to have a little visit with him. My actions truly did come from a honest and committed place. Like I said if I knew how badly it was going to make him feel, I never would have done it. I made sure that basically if he needed to check up on me he could have. I know he doesn't want to live his life like that...but I want to offer that to him always.

Again, I guess that is my impatience with just wanting him to believe in me again. I do truly understand his distrust...I am not trying to diminish what he is going through....but it is frustrating and painful. I know where I am in my heart. I have discovered what it means to have focus. It does not discourage me from getting to that point with him. I have a true faith in him,and have begun to discover that in myself as well.

Thanks again ladies

Dutchie
Posted 9/9/2007 4:48 AM (GMT 0)
He'll come around I am sure to understand your willingness to have him "check up on you" is an act of love and faith. It also shows how much you understand and, more importantly, respect the validity of his feelings. I know however, you ended up with a reverse result of your intentions. I am sure somewhere inside, while he can't control the feelings that came up, he knows that to. Perhaps it is an opportunity for you to reflect on how you can better communicate your reasons for things to Footballfan so as to not trigger this "fear" response for him? I mean, sometimes it is as simple as being clearer with our spouse instead of behaving in such a way they are ending up having the guess or figure things out for themselves. (Right now, probably not a good place for Footballfan to emotionally go?) SO, while it may seem obvious to you why you may do something, in addition to sharing where you will be at all times if he wants to check on you for himself, you can explain your reasoning to him? Maybe this would help? I know when my hubby does something that makes me question his motivation, or reasoning, I sit there puzzled wondering and frustrated…"what could he be thinking"! But when he adds in an explanation for it, knowing him, suddenly I don't have to work so hard and whether I agree or not, understand better his choices. Anyway...just some thoughts...LFW
Posted 9/9/2007 3:27 PM (GMT 0)
The unknown a lot of times is a lot worse than reality. This is what I struggle with when I am at work. When I am at home I feel a sense of control of the situation, not being controlling, just the fact that I am here and so nothing bad will happen. When I am at work the control of the situation is gone. I am gone for 12 hours and that is a long time for bad things to happen. Dutchie does everything to try and give me peace of mind. She says I can call anytime, she has a cellphone in case she is out, if she goes somewhere she always tells me when and where, she asks me what else she can do. I tell her there is nothing she can do. I realize it is my problem. She constantly tells me that I can check up on her but I have told her that I will not live my life like that. If I feel the need to check up on her constantly then what is the point of having a relationship? I just tell her that this is my problem, if it never goes away then our future can't be good, I will always be wondering what is going on and eventually she will get tired of not being trusted. She keeps asking me to give it time, that is what I am doing but at times it feels like it would be a whole lot better to distance myself and in a sense make it not my problem. I know that's selfish but it's the feelings I have.
Posted 9/9/2007 5:53 PM (GMT 0)
Footballfan, as I have stated, given the stage you both are at with this, it is completely understandable. I think Dutchie thinks so to. I know exactly what you mean about feeling more in control when you are there and a part of a situation vs. not. It is about control inside of you - not necessarily with others...I get that too. I have felt that way at times in my life when I am caring for a sick loved one who is in the hospital. It is hard. It is a gnawing in your gut that doesn't go away when you are not there. Fear eats at you every second. BUT, in your situation I just think it is just a matter of time and more healing that needs to take place between you two before that feeling will be trusted and subside.

I know the situations are different, but when my dad had to move into a facility due to illness, we had to rely on everyone there doing their job to take care of him and NOT drop the ball. My anxiety level about this was huge as I had had personal experience with another situation where they HAD dropped the ball to dyer consequences. But I started to relax after about 6 months when all was going fine for him. I began to trust more and more he was in a good place with people who would really ensure his wellbeing. I had been told they would of course, but given what I had seen and experienced before in another situation, I wasn't ready to trust it by any means. They had to prove the validity of their claims. And they did. In time I saw that. Then I relaxed and the feeling was gone. Even when the end came for my dad this last February...never did I have the feeling or thought that it was because someone screwed up. So, like I said, I know the situations are different, but the feelings that they brought up are very similar. So yes, I can say with certainty, that if you 'give it time' and keep doing the work, you can and will most likely eventually loose that feeling.

Healing takes time my dear; there is no way around pain. There are no short cuts; there is only one way...through it! You both are inching your way through it and honestly from where we sit, doing great. You are being honest about your feelings with each other with every situation, you are working to keep the lines of communication open, you are finding joyous times together, you are saying "ouch" when something hurts and telling the truth to each other....ALL good...see! That is what it takes for the strong, secure, and trusted love to finally find its way home. Yours may still be on its journey...but it is certainly traveling in the right direction. Stand proud of that and "give it time". Time is your friend....LFW
Posted 9/13/2007 1:21 AM (GMT 0)
I got done work this morning at 7. Dutchie took the girls to school at 9 and then we sat around and talked until 1. Kind of a difficult talk. We talked a lot about the affair. Stuff that was very difficult for her to talk about but stuff that I really needed her to purge herself of. As difficult as it is for me to hear I always tell her that she cannot hold anything back and let it fester inside. I hope it has helped her take another step forward.

I have very strange feelings about all of this. I know it isn't reasonable but it is still there and we talked about it today. When we got married I took the responsibility of my family very seriously. I talked to Dutchie today about feeling ultimately responsible for this as it is my responsibilty to protect my family. She told me that there wasn't anything I could have done because she had (or the bp had) blocked me out and wouldn't let me in. I realize she is right but the guilt is overwhelming since I take it as a failure on my part.

Dutchie and I talked about her relationship with our eldest. Dutchie sometimes feels that it doesn't matter what she says or how she says it she is always being a bad mom in our girls eyes. She talked to our oldest last night and asked why when she dealt with me she would listen and not talk back and yet when Dutchie dealt with her it was a long drawn out thing with our oldest always trying to get in the last word. Our daughter said that she feared me because if I raised my voice she knew she was in trouble. I don't want her to fear me, just respect me. I explained to Dutchie that the girls look at her as someone they can barter with and they look at me as someone where they had to obey. I also explained that girls are going to fight more with mom than dad, it seems like that's the way it is. I told Dutchie to try something different. I told her to not go in with guns ablazing but approach it as her friend first. When our oldest came into the kitchen Dutchie goofed around with her playfully and the response was immediate. Our daughter was happy and smiling and playing back. I explained to Dutchie that our girls are so affected by her mood and asked if she saw the immediate response she got. She said that she saw it but also felt bad for not realizing it in the past. She needs to realize how important she is in our girls lives, hopefully this little event will help.
Posted 9/13/2007 5:00 AM (GMT 0)
Footballfan, I think it is great that you encourage Dutchie to "purge" this stuff out to help her step forward another step from it, as long as it doesn't set YOU back hearing it. She can also do that purging with a therapist and then you don't have to process the fallout it brings on for you - ultimately setting you back potentially as a result. I hope that made sense. As to your guilt...good to recognize the source of the feelings, but now that you expressed it...LET IT GO. Your logical mind KNOWS you are not ultimately responsible for Dutchie's actions at that time. Your contribution to it was the "illness and festering issues" that already existed in your marriage. It takes TWO to tango my friend. You kept your wife safe, your family safe. This was different and you could not have prevented it. So to feel guilty is a wasted emotion for you. Time to let THAT ONE go!

Here is the good and bad news about mother's and daughters. They will have close years, troubled years and everything else in between until your daughter(s) grow up. While you want, as a mom, to balance the guns blazing side with the playful stuff, ultimately she is their mother and it is important that until the girls are MUCH older, she not overly take on the "friend" persona with them; TOO confusing for kids. That doesn't mean they don't need happy, light, good fun times together…inside jokes for “girls only”, their “special mom and daughter moments”. THEY ABSOLUTELY DO, but mother's and daughters are a lot of estrogen in one place. Hormones fly through adolescence. I know the guilt on this that you are talking about too. But, you have to recognize that if our kids know we love them, and would die for them, can count on us to be there for them for good and bad, and will protect them at all cost...then any mistakes we make, ultimately, we will be forgiven for. And let me tell you, we will ALL make mistakes no matter how hard we try not to. It is the nature of the beast of being a parent. I know for me, because of the situation in our house, I tend to end up being the consistent disciplinarian and as a result it can affect my relationship with the kids. So I have to work REALLY hard to find the "play time...fun…special" moments with them. I feel like from sun up to past sun down I do SO much of the work that there isn't a lot of time for me to "feel playful". It is something I struggle with a lot. But I do have great kids, with all the "kid" issues thrown in…and I know they know they are loved at all times. And I recognize that any "guilt" I place on me serves NO purpose. It will not make anything better; it is a wasted emotion that will just keep me stuck. So, I let go of it, and get on with it...doing the very best I can.

Gosh, I really am so proud of both of you for the renewed relationship you are building. I am also envious and would LOVE some of that here. But then I would have to share that I have been coming on this BP site and it would not go over to well I fear. While he "accepts" his BP, we can't really openly and honestly discuss it in those terms or he shuts down. He can “see” it in our son, but God forbid I should point out the similarities…he says “Don’t compare me to my son, I am not 13 years old…that is insulting”. So, we do the dance as he needs it to keep the marriage functional. He is VERY private about it with others, as if it somehow makes him damaged goods. But he is not in my eyes, he is just having to live with additional challenges – like a diabetic would. In fact he came to me today to get my help on a business issue he is having on a project with one of his clients regarding how to posture something of REAL issue and communicate it. He knew he was being triggered by it all, but, here's the perfect example, we can't say it is the BP rearing its head, just that he has always been this way and given THAT, how shall he resolve this issue. I know he has tremendous respect for me and what I can contribute, but he triggers IMMEDIATELY if I try to connect those dots so he can recognize its source (which I think would then give him power to overcome…like Dutchie – but alas, he’s not there yet), so we do the dance to identify it all in a tolerable way for him. I do SO wish we could just straight talk it the way you and Dutchie are learning to. You are so very lucky the way she has embraced handling all this. You give me hope on that front. LFW
Posted 9/13/2007 11:15 PM (GMT 0)
As far as Dutchie purging things. I have always put myself and my feelings secondary to my family. Yes the things we have talked about have been hurtful but I would much rather have her get rid of them than keep them in for the simple reason of sparing me pain. I do understand the feelings of guilt are not reasonable but it still is there. I don't give into them but it is difficult that my whole thought process over the years has been to protect my wife and children from hurtful things. I never considered having to save my wife from herself.

Dutchie and our oldest have gone to "meet the teacher night", our oldest didn't want to go last night but when she came home from school Dutchie asked her if she would take her. I really encourage them to have time together. It brings them closer and forms a bond that they both really need. I don't tell Dutchie that she should be friends and a pushover to our oldest, but in the past it has always been a very tense relationship, I have explained that it doesn't have to always be so strict and regimented, approach things with a gentle attitude first, if it needs to become more strict then move forward with it but when that is the first thing done it makes both of them put up their guard and get ready for a fight. When Dutchie concentrates on a more subtle approach it works like magic, our oldest is more than willing to comply without argueing. It really needs to be practiced to make it a natural thing rather than a forced way of dealing with her. They love each other but are both expecting a fight. With time it can change if they both work for a good relationship.

LFW - You wish that your husband could be more open about his bp. It sounds to me that you both have a handle on things and have formed an understanding about it. Yes Dutchie and I talk very open about it but our relationship has gone through a devastating event that has basically forced us to be open or we wouldn't be together. I would give anything to be in a relationship with what you have if it meant we didn't have to go through what we need to. Be appreciative of your situation (I'm not saying your not), going through what we are going through is hell. It is great that we can talk but we both understand that we have to or else. Make the best of your situation and enjoy the good times when they come.

Kind of a change of pace with me giving you advice. Hope it helps.
Posted 9/14/2007 1:46 AM (GMT 0)
Footballfan, of course the advise helps in reverse, I assure you. It is a pleasure to receive it. It just gets hard you know always having to select my words when trying to discuss this stuff. The connections are SO obvious to me, and his life would be SO much easier if he would be more educated about it and connect and SEE the dots. Because then he could be at more of a choice about it all. But, it is too much for him thus far. But I pray one day it won't be...SO until that day, we do this dance of talking about it - sort of, without actually saying IT. Do you know what I mean. It just adds to the fatigue of it all for me always being on the receiving end and having to manage the chaos at times. I am a pretty straight up person (I'm sure you couldn't tell that LOL), and having to pick my words so carefully can be a pain in the a--, if you get my drift. But, we have learned to manage our lives and have our happiness with enough consistency that it makes it worth it for us both, and a healthy enough environment for our kids to grow and flourish well. Sometimes it is dealing with our son with the BP that creates the challenges and then it is so hard for hubby to see he starts popping off, then I am coordinating the two of them...THOSE are fun times! With school starting, we are facing a few challenges with homework and organizational stuff, and 13 year old teenage angst on top of the BP. And trust me, my son is a GREAT guy...but a teenager is a teenager after all. BREATHE I tell myself a lot! Anyway, thanks for listening and chiming in with support Footballfan, I DO appreciate it. LFW
Posted 9/14/2007 1:28 PM (GMT 0)
Everyday I am falling more and more in love with Footballfan again. I never realized what a wall I had built up against him. I see and hear the pain and lonliness he must have felt for years and it really is a pain like I have never experienced. The past few days we have talked quite a bit...we talk alot now anyhow, but this was more about feelings...his...mine through the affair, and some final clarification on some issues. There is a definite sense of release getting this out...but it was painful; not only for him, but for me as well. I told him last night I would like nothing better than to be able to forget it all. It is very disturbing to me. I hate feeling the pain that I have caused. Footballfan did make a good point, that remembering will prevent it from happening again. Good point. But right now, even our good days are overshadowed...and I hate that. I will take control and rise above the pain...but it is hard somedays. I pray that faith in me will come back to Footballfan. I do know it will take time.

I think he worries that even though I am thinking clearer than I ever have, that the bp may cause problems again. I feel like now that I am on meds, exercising, and just genuinely taking control of my life...I feel like yes I may suffer from symtoms at different times, but I will take control of this. I have a workbook called MIND OVER MOOD....(I think that says alot right there)

I have told Footballfan that based on my history, I have given him no reason to stay. But what I will offer for the future is a better me and a reationship that will fill him with the love and happiness he deserves. I see now that I never truly trusted in his love...I don't think in anyones. But that was something I looked for desperately was the love and admiration of others. When I look at it all now I find it so sad and pathetic.

Footballfan tells me how proud he is of me very frequently, I want him to feel how proud I am of him; and I don't just mean for sticking by me. I never appreciated all the things he has done for me over the years. I really am (along with the girls) #1 in his life. I didn't understand that kind of love. I guess that was some paranoia coming out in me in that any nice thing had an ulterior motive.

I have also expressed to Footballfan that there is not only sadness inside that I am feeling, but anger as well. An anger of me not knowing these things about myself...for hurting those people that loved me the most. Maybe it is a self-pitying anger in the "why did this have to happen to me"?? But it really is a true emotion that I am working my way through as well.

All in all I am blown away by Footballfan. He truly is the most amazing person I know. He is a blessing in my life...always has been...but now that I am understanding love and actually feeling it, it is my intention to make him feel loved, cared for and as protected as he has made me feel. I told him I want to be someone that fills his heart and that he truly looks forward to coming home and seeing.

Dutchie
Posted 9/14/2007 3:54 PM (GMT 0)
Dutchie, that workbook "mind OVER mood" is exactly what I have talked about a lot. But as you are seeing, it requires the person to be very aware of their own behavior in general at any given time, be willing to be truthful with themselves and others about it. Then, you possess tremendous power over whatever the mood is even to say I need some additional help, here's what's going on, I am temporarily not in a good place to make wise decisions therefore for the time being unless you agree with what I want to do - or how I am behaving, I will allow you to guide me because I trust you have my best interest at heart too. It is about choosing and committing to being in control of the illness at all cost vs. hiding and letting the illness run the show. What seems SO hard to do now in watching yourself and processing stuff, will in time become quick; your "clear" mind will take the lead and default to processing what now may take great thought and time, to almost instantaneous. It is a matter of training your brain to keep you safe, level, on your game...etc; to notice when changes in brain chemistry shift, for how long…you know that self analysis. Keep it up...you are doing a good job. LFW
Posted 9/15/2007 3:25 AM (GMT 0)
football fan and I live in the same world and I know exactly how he is feeling.
My wife is BP and had an affair about 1.5 years ago. I swear I never though this would happen with us. The worst of it was the fact she called me and told me what was going to happen before she met her co-worker for what I thought was their first encounter. Later I found out it was going on for at least a month prior to her calling me. I know, I know why the F@#$ did she call to tell me? Who knows rack it up to an extremely manic phase that was driving her nuts as well as massive stress at work.
After she came home we went through the long talks, arguments, make-up, talk etc. She assured me it was a one time thing and she was done with this guy. I felt better and things seemed OK. A couple of weeks later I went out and bought her an expensive car as a sign of our renewed relationship. Later I found out the day after we picked up the car she took him out to lunch in this car and continued with (not sexually {I think})this scumbag (he is also married). I found a secret e-mail account and being good with computers broke in to her account and found tons of e-mails. Things like: I was asleep on the couch so she took him to bed with her in the form of the laptop and IM's. They wanted to sneak off together, did he find the diamond earrings (I bought for her a few months earlier) in his car as she couldn't find them. These messages were as recently as the night before. I got sick, literally. I had to go to work and called her at work and let in to her bigtime.
That night she ate about 60 different pills valium zanax etc. I came home to find her passed out on the floor. I got her to the hospital and she lived although it was touch and go for a while.
Since then she was hospitalized and diagnosed as BP. She lost her job which really put the squeeze on us financially. We have been through several Docs and therapists, about all the meds available and 18 months of me taking car of her, our kids, the house and taking on another job to make ends meet.
Recently she fond a DR that is well respected in out area and he has her on a cocktail of meds that finally seem to work. She actually took a job a few weeks ago and seems to be doing OK.
Now after all that time I'm spent. Trust is shaky at best, and right now I feel like I'm not sure where I stand. I love her but I feel more like I have to take care of her, like a friend. She has been wanting to kiss, get intimate etc. and I'm just not into it right now.
I have done much soul searching and just feel empty; like the guy who made soooo many mistakes. I never got to be mad at her, I never really found everything out and feel like I need to. She went and tried to kill herself and then there was the recovery, mental hospital, dr's. therapists etc. and I was walking on eggshells for most of the past year.
I, in many ways want to be angry, want revenge want to make that guy pay like I/we did. Instead I'm here typing away like I have so many times before. This is my first post on a board though.
Anyway I'm not sure where I/we will end up but keep pluggin away one day at a time. Thanks for letting me vent.
Posted 9/15/2007 3:34 AM (GMT 0)
Soundguy,

Welcome to the HW family, I am glad you found us.

You have every right to be upset about the situation. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone, and there are many here who have been through a similar situation.
Posted 9/16/2007 2:57 AM (GMT 0)
Welcome soundguy. I wish we could have met under better circumstances but it's helpful to hear from someone in the same situation as me. I'm glad you found this site, it is helpful, you will find support and encouragement from the people here. Keep posting, I will post again in a couple days but I have to work in the morning so I gotta go. Again welcome.
Posted 9/16/2007 10:03 PM (GMT 0)
Soundguy

I also welcome you to this site...like Footballfan said there are alot of great people here that will offer up some great advice and support. As unpleasant as it is at times to be one the receiving end of...please never deny yourself the anger/frustrations/sadness you may be experiencing. We definitely learned that bottling up feelings and emotions eventually is always a huge detriment to the realtionship. Like I said being on the receiving end of the anger/sadness is about the worst feeling ever. Like I have said before, to see the pain that I have caused...not only to Footballfan, but to myself and ultimately the girls is a very difficult thing to live with. I don't know what stage your wife is at, but when she realizes....truly realizes what she has done and is remorseful for it....she will be going through a very difficult time.

You definitely have to deal with those feelings you are going through. I have found with Footballfan that all of the feelings he is experiencing have a period where they come and go...and to different degrees. Sometimes the anger is more severe and drawn out....other times we will experience a period of really nice comfortable, fun days together. The point I am trying to make is that we are learning it is a lengthy process. And I know Footballfan wonders some days if it is worth while. On the hard days I wonder if I will be strong enough to make it through. But for me I have come to a decision that included alot of lifestyle changes. It is these changes that Footballfan has a hard time trusting in, because in the past I have always quit. I can only say that for me it truly is an internal decision of how I want to live my life..I can't make Footballfan trust or beleive in me again.....as much as I want it, I can only live my life the way I have chosen, and pray he wants to continue to stay by my side. I want him to feel love and cared for like he has never felt before.

I think it is the days where your wife is more stable, you really start to work on dealing with these emotions. Keep in mind, dealing with the stress in the relationship may be a trigger for her. Stress is a definite trigger for me, but I am not what you would consider extreme with the bp.(like I said I don't know where your wife is with the bp, and how she reacts to stress) I can only tell you that for me it gives me an instant headache and can get me feeling very low. It is in these states that the racing thoughts will start to take over as well. If she is sincere in her recovery both in herself but in your relationship as well...then she needs to take steps to move forward. Support groups, books, this forum, taking her meds regularly, coucelling--both for her and for you both as a couple; these are all ways of not only bettering herself, but I believe they are sincere indicators that she wants this relationship to work. Something that is huge....TALK....both of you need to talk and be open about everything.

I am sorry I had to find out the hard way on how to give such advice, but I do hope it helps you out a little. Take it one day at a time...we will help out with whatever advice we can. Don't give up that it can work if you want it. If your wife is sincere and there is a mutual feeling of love for you both, than you have HOPE. That is the first step we take each day.

We are here to support.

Dutchie
Posted 9/17/2007 4:44 PM (GMT 0)
Dutchie,

I just wanted to say that I am really happy for you that you are doing so well. Congrats on getting accepted to school, yeah!
Posted 9/23/2007 9:26 PM (GMT 0)

Dutchie & Footballfan,

I just want you both to know I am thinking of you.  I hope things are going well.  Things have slowed down a bit for me at school...that should still be the case for one more week, then it gets crazy again.

Anyway, just wondering how things are.

Posted 9/25/2007 5:22 PM (GMT 0)
Mogs...so good to hear from you. I'm glad school is going well....pace yourself through the crazy schedules.

Footballfan and I continue our journey. Some days it is very difficult. He has times when I believe he truly wants out. He wants to be free of the pain and worries. It is so hard to see him like this. It starts to put doubt in my own mind that he should stay. But, I truly believe in my heart that in the person I am and continue to become there will be no more pain for him. Being medicated and finally feeling like I am in control over the rate in which I think and how I can now process things, gives me such a feeling of peace. It is like I am finally in pocession of focus in my life.

I have said that I can only do what I can...and that Footballfan has to make that choice as well. He has to decide if he is willing to discover this new me, and build a relationship based on these new discoveries about the both of us. I don't want a relationship based on what we had over the past 20 years....I want a new and much stronger relationship with him. Based on the last 20 years...no I have not given him a whole lot to base any faith in. However I will not stop trying. I will try for the both of us until that faith starts to build in him again. He has said that it is not just as simple as making a "choice". I know the destruction I have caused...and I could wallow in in very easily. But I do see it as a decision in a sense...because for me, I am deciding to rise above this pain. I keep telling him that he is the strongest person I know...(I don't think he gets what I mean) Trust and faith in me is going to take time...I understand that ( it is disheartening and frustrating at times, but I understand it) But of anyone I know..he has the strength to rise above this pain. I ask him continually to keep his heart open to me, even just a little.....don't shut me out. I want us to grow together. I want him to truly feel my love and committment., not only to us , but to the girls and the other things going on in my life as well.

Thanks for reading
Dutchie
Posted 9/26/2007 3:18 AM (GMT 0)
You are doing so well Dutchie, I really get how for the first time...YOU GET IT. You just hang in there with FBF, just remember, he is processing and healing too. I know you know that, but it sometimes helps to hear it from another. And I agree with you about it being a choice first...I believe that is where it starts. I think that FBF is just fearful; he just hasn't healed enough to get there. In time...I BELIEVE HE WILL. I believe he will learn how to be brave enough to forgive (but not forget - which he shouldn't...that has nothing to do with forgiveness), and he will give you BOTH that gift in time. LFW
Posted 9/27/2007 1:49 AM (GMT 0)

Dutchie,

I cannot begin to tell you how proud I am of you.  You are saying a lot of the things that you have been saying for quite sometime now, which shows stability, committment, courage and strength.  You are so focused, otherwise you would have derailed from all of your goals and insights.

It's been challenging and painful along the way for you as well, but that has not stopped you from acknowledging things, and making plans to make your life better.  It sounds to me like you are there for Footballfan as well.  You've really tried to be so patient and understanding with him, all the while going through what are usually the hardest stages of this illness (early on in your diagnosis).

I am proud of you, and I am behind you 100%.

Take care.

Posted 9/27/2007 1:53 AM (GMT 0)

Footballfan,

I just wanted to tell you that I hope your healing is coming along as well.  I know this has also been a struggle for you.  I think it is so great that you have reached out to HW and got your feelings out there.  I am sure that helps you.  I don't know that my bf would feel comfortable doing that, but if it would help him I wish he would.

I keep in mind your advice to me for me and my bf in dealing with my bipolar.  I appreciate it very much, and I think it was all very sound advice.

Anyway, take care, hope you are well.

Posted 9/27/2007 10:39 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the thoughts Mogs. I have read your other posting and I hope you find peace, I know you will because we all can see your strength, just believe in it.

Posting on HW is very helpful, you say your bf wouldn't be comfortable with it, to be honest if I were sitting in a group situation I wouldn't be comfortable about talking about our problems but since there is a sense of anonymity it makes it easier. He can post or ask questions to me if he wants. You have helped us so much, if I can help you guys in any way just post it.

To be honest I don't know how healing is coming. I support Dutchie and I want what is best for her, I see the strides she has made and the effort she has put into getting well, but when the topic of "us" comes up I tend to tell her that I am not ready to think about that. Right now I don't see it, maybe in time I will. We are working on being friends and that is as far as I am willing to commit to right now.

I hope school is going well. Make us all proud.
Posted 9/28/2007 4:55 AM (GMT 0)
FBF, I always hear how much support you have for Dutchie, but I don't see you give that same love and understanding to yourself and your process here. In order to heal, you must care for yourself the same as you care and nurture Dutchie. I wish you Gods speed to allow yourself that. You certainly deserve it, but you seem SO hard on yourself and rigid in your position. If you begin to let some of the pain go, are you afraid you will fall apart and can't handle it. I am not talking your "anger" here. I am talking about letting a "little" of the pain go so you can allow a "little" bit of healing in. Then do this process little piece by little piece. For you, I think it isn't going to happen on its own. You're going to need to consciously choose to allow it to happen. What about some one on one therapy for yourself to deal with YOUR pain, not just your anger? Perhaps that would feel safer for you? Just some thoughts from a friend. I really want to see you heal too! Hugs, LFW
Posted 9/30/2007 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
Letting some of the pain go would be nice, but when your thinking it will just lead to more it makes it very difficult. I am very hard on myself, I always have been, I expect a lot from myself and I expect a lot from my wife and kids, obviously too much. My mindset has always been that nothing is free and you work for everything you get, not to rely on others as they are looking out for their best interest. This situation has just magnified my view and made me feel that I can't even count on my wife. I am very closed and rigid about our situation. When you have 20 years of running into landmines and rebuilding time after time you get to a point where your worn down and to a point feel that you can't go through any more. There has to be a time when enough is enough and you need to start taking care of yourself. Dutchie and I talked last night on the phone, we talked about our life together and all the problems over the years, the thing is, is that she understands my view and even expressed what I was thinking when all of this came out - "She did it again to me" - meaning this was just another landmine that blew up and now I am supposed to just put it behind me like all the other landmines and wait for the next one. There can't be another one. If it means being apart to avoid it then so be it, I am to the point where I refuse to put myself on the line anymore.
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