New Member: seenee

Hi Seenee,

I have to admit that I'm having a little trouble excavating your questions from your post. I get that your wife and you scarcely talk and that she's angry? I think you're asking if that's normal for bipolar? I also think you're asking about medication and how it works, and what doctors take into account when prescribing the medications. Why they choose the dosages they do?

Anger and withdrawal are very common with bipolar and depression, and she clearly is having a hard time. I'm sure she's just as frustrated as you are. Are either of you seeing a therapist or counselor? She could probably use a neutral ear to help her sort through her feelings.

As far as what happened in the doctor's office, I have no answer for you there. I think that's a doctor's stylistic thing.

I can only say that most bipolars are going to be medicated for life. The medications will probably shift and change as the condition changes, but the condition primarily needs to be controlled with medication. It gets very nasty without it, I assure you.

My only advice is to push your wife to talk with you. MAKE some time for her. I know you're busy, but certainly the two of you can carve an hour out once a week and hold it sacred. Spend it walking, or talking. Don't watch tv. Actually connect with one another. It's so hard to do these things. I really understand. Please feel free to ask all the questions you like.

please forgive my verbose writing style. and in the most confusing order of thoughts too, if there was any order to start with.

Anyway, currently my predicament is worsening. One of the problems I see from my limited perspective is time. we barely have any personal time together, and here is why: because she is simply NOT open to just set down and discuss things out. I would love to just see my wife mentally come back from where ever she went and still is at.

my very dear friend, who lives with a more-often-than-not lady with dystonia has a little saying he says to her when she is having a hard time for a long time: "bring back Beth, what did you do with Beth?" well, that is where I am right now too. I really want my honey back.

This weekend she has slept most of the time. this past Thursday was a very good evening for me when I sat next to her on the couch and asked her what's been pushin her down so badly for so long now (at least a week or so since going up from 25mg of lamictal), and she thankfully really poured out the whole deal for me. Man, that was great for me. doggone, my poor honey. I feel so bad for her having to deal with this crap on more of a constant basis than I really can imagine. I'm sure not criticizing her in even the slightest manner on any account at all ever here, so please don't misinterpret my intent. I want to help her. and I'm gathering the best way to help her is to stay away from her. I'm bedd'n down on the couch nowadays. I know this is all temporary - the effects of drug changes, but Good Lord this is some mighty challenging transitional times I reckon, for the both of us like lfw said.

this past Thursday her doc reluctantly told her to quit lamictal, (even though this is this docs main med that she subscribes to) and try this new seroquel xr exclusively.

*****? Okay, question from me here on drug changes: is there any general guideline on how long it takes for drug "x" to completely leave someone's system? for example, she's been taking lamictal for several weeks now, was up to the prescribed 100mg dosage from the infamous packet, and suddenly quits it under direction of her pd. now, from my years in the livestock industry, ya just don't change ANYTHING THAT QUICK. always, always, always taper off or on something. that's the rule for feed anyhow, and I would think that with maintenance drugs, it'd be the same deal.

So that was Thursday's instruction. It's now Sunday night and my hurtin' honey is sacked out all day, with a very short break to eat a tiny snack, read a little, then back to bed. moving on here, and this is what prompted my asking of the drug change time frame: her doc says to try this regimen of just seroquel xr (she said this is supposed to simply keep her mellow all day instead of crashing hard at night and being furious in the morning when it's worn off). IF that doesn't work by tomorrow (tomorrow? again, isn't that kinda early in the change time? that's only three to four days) she goes back to what DID work for years - Seroquel (XR or normal - don't know yet) and Trileptal, with Diazepam, I think also for night-time use. This is, like I mentioned, what worked for I believe about five years straight, with little or no dosage changes. but you all could tell me if that is at all possible - no changes for that length of time. I'd think the human body would get so use to having "x" drug in it that it would perhaps become ineffective, no?

lfw, a few little tidbits of input, and for all, not just you of course, but you mentioned some things that I'd like to touch on here quick:

- as far as her and me going to any kind of counselor or therapist, well, I'd sure be open to the idea. anything. whatever brings my honey back to the way she likes to be. but I honestly don't believe, keeping in mind she is in the bad times right now mind you, that she would talk to anyone. All I can do is try, but going way back to our lack of communication and time problem, FORGET talking in the morning, and at night she's read'n a book and not to be bothered. so there really is never an opportune time to talk. about anything really.

- about being new to the forum, yeah, I know, newbies almost always just shpeal out a huge brain dump in one oversized posting. case in point is my first posting in a different thread when I first found this forum: https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=13&m=246951

- thirdly, I sure wish I had an answer to your question of why did the original regimen change instead of just rest and relaxation, then get back to what worked. that is what POTENTIALLY IS FINALLY HAPPENING. only time will tell here soon.

anyway, I don't mean to treat you all as a friend I'd just call up and rant and rave (nicely mind you) about my honey's deal, but I guess that is what I keep doing.

Thanks for your time and any input.

I don't know if this is allowed on forums in general, but I'd like to put a few links here that I just read elsewhere:

reinforcing the idea that I hinted on about her doc "subscribing" to a particular med: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-02-2007/0004674025&EDATE=

on that note, my wife once told me that is the way it is - that each doc has their preferred 1st line med they prescribe and hope that it works for that patient. my wife got lucky one time so far finding that functional combination I described above, and this past thursday she laid it on the line to her doc that she and her lady doc, since this past January, have tried ever conceivable combination that was in this docs knowhow, and have NOT FOUND A SINGLE SUCCESSFUL COMBO YET. hence, the urge to return to the known good.

a few more links:

http://www.bipolarnews.org/ (where the above link was found through)

http://www.harbor-of-refuge.org/

I know given the nature of the Internet, that the resources really are limitless, but there's a couple that might help someone - ya never know.

- C

Thanks Serafena!  I'll take that hint lovingly   

I believe it was, that is why I am taking it that way...I was just teasing a little with you    Believe me, I know letting me out of the restrained cage I feel like I live in sometimes, and really being allowed to say fully what I mean, and being able to speak as clearly as I try so my thoughts are not misinterpreted, is such a relief, I DO go on to much at times.  But it does feel like being let out of a cage!  My husband can only handle SOUND BITES 99% of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!  Imagine for a gal like me how hard it is to talk in practical CODE speak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OY! Thank GOD for you all.  Thanks for always putting up with me     LFW

Post Edited (loving frustrated wife) : 10/8/2007 2:37:51 PM (GMT-6)

Quite alright Serefena! you ladies crack me up! he he he he. :)

In my guy-ignorance (that I've been told is okay to have, being a guy), I must ask, what do you mean by "sound bites" for your husbands?

I know what a sound byte is by definition, e.g., a little sound clip to accentuate a commercial on audible media, but just curious of the application in the context of which you speak. ugh. that's even tiring language to write! ha ha ha. God Bless it, and I am wanting to get an MA in English. ha!

I know I probably shouldn't be writing all this this late at night, but it is the only time I have to be on here, so here's some more stuff of current.

I have a notion that one thing that would REALLY help my wife is for her to find some personal grasp or security if you will to share her disorder with others. that is, to let a select handful of important/relevant/helpful friends know about it. I have been told I am very good with people, as she describes me: "you could carry a conversation on with a brick wall." or something like that.

But she is very much an introvert in her personality, unless she's feeling great, (not extremely high up there somewhere, which she simply does not experience, and hasn't for many years, but is nonetheless very closed manner of a person. anyway, my notion is that if she was to open up about her illness to a few folks she really trusted, it would help her through any tough times, or (again in my ignorance here) perhaps keep the swings from happening at all.

oh, here is another topic/question for you all: are the "mood" swings inevitable? by "mood" I mean, and again, I am still learning as much as fast as possible about BP, the cheerfullness or the depressive state of mind. Let's take right now for instance, now granted it is 11pm, and when she takes her Seroquel at usually about 8:30 she is toast in roughly 30minutes, but I don't mean this minute right now, but this week. I still need to ask her tomorrow about the current med change. She asked me earlier on the phone (yeah! she called me and talked! ) about my getting her on my insurance as her bc/bs insurance doesn't cover hardly anything, as she said the trileptal would be $300/month and Seroquel would be $267/month. This is obviously VERY unrealistic on our budget to be able to afford and still have a roof over head and food on the table.

Thank God, as far as I know, my insurance will kick in immediately for her, where she can get each of these meds for $40/THREE MONTHS WORTH OF DOSAGE! not bad, eh? so I guess I really am stuck in my job until I knock out a master's degree in something by golly.

I need to intervene on the topic here for just a moment and say that I love my wonderful wife more than I may ever have the words to describe. I mean I really love her. our saying from back in our wedding prep days, and for that matter, since we ever really started spending ever day together, (no exaggeration there either) one of our sayings has been: "no matter what."
well, let me tell ya that I live by that every moment I ever spend thinking about my very loving wife. when she smiles she so completely lights up my world, that, wow. Bill Engvall talks about something called "Love Magic" and if you have it you know it. well, I have that for/with her, as does she when her mind is in a balanced state. when her meds are working she is so incredibly a joy to be near. and when she is off balance upyonder, well, I just wait patiently until she comes back from whereever BP'ers go for a while.

I will reiterate here also a point I think I touched on some time ago in a different post as to just how much in tune and in control she is of herself. from my outside perspective, it truly is an amazing ability to be able to handle what she does as well as she does.

I am so thankful for all of you, if we were face to face I'd give ya all a nice big 'n tight hug, one at a time mind you! ha ha ha lol (okay, not out loud, but in my mind out loud, she's sleepin in the next room.

oh yeah, and she let me know very nicely today when we were on the phone that we were "going to be apart for a while." meaning I'm on the couch until the storm passes, Mrs. Hyde moves along on here not-so-merry way, and my honey can once again appreciate the beauty God gave us all to enjoy of the great fall colors in the yard, with the mountains right outside the back door. boy, if ever there was a place on earth to need to be in to recover from bad juju like BP downs, this is it. well, one place anyway. I could think of a thousand great places I've been in my life, mostly horseback in the Rockies, but I digress. and need to undress 'n shower here too, as I gotta git ta bed (er, um, couch) pronto.

so ladies, please always feel free to continue on with zee banter of "girly silliness." heh heh heh. If I may brag for just moment, I have always been known for my good nature and constant loving laugh, smiles, and all around good feelings I share with anyone and everyone around me. not all touchy-feely kind of "group hug" stuff, but really just genuine me. most of the time I like me. only time I don't is when I may have ever had a cross thought about my honey when she is really unfriendly (when Mrs. Hyde's present).

night. :)
-C

hi again my fellow confiding helpers who I feel I need to run to once again. I messed up big time tonight. crap. crap crap!

I just read a little post somewhere that was way too familiar, (short of the divorce subject), what my home life is regularly like: Re:bipolar wife wants a divorce jojo319: How do you deal with her comings and goings? It's been 2 days and she already shuts the bedroom door when she's changing. Re:bipolar wife wants a divorce seth: Isn't that the worst when they leave but don't actually leave and then you catch them half-dressed and they act like you're a stranger that just broke into the house?

After all of the intimacy that comes w/ years together, the false modesty is a bit insulting...."


What I messed up on tonight was, wow, and this is real bad, man this is bad. she was telling me not to have money deducted from my paycheck to pay for her meds, or anything else with her illness. two days ago she asked me to deposit some cash into her account, so I did. and being the generous soul that I am, I put in a grand, figuring that would help her with whatever immediate expenses she has. then tonight, and CRAP did I screw up with my mouth, I said "well, when you run out of money and ask me for some, aren't I paying for your meds anyway?" WOW. HOLY CRAP WAS THAT THE WRONG BLOODY THING TO SAY. and even though she allowed me back into the bedroom two nights ago, after being kicked out to the couch for one night, there ain't NO way I'm going in there tonight. forget that.

help. please. I beg you all, the Lord, Holy Mary, her past relatives that were of the similar condition but are long gone now up in Heaven, and anyone else that can possibly help me through these hard times when things get bad. I gather that this is probably small potatas compared to problems I've read about within BP marriages, but this is real bad for us. especially me. gracious. this is going to take a LONG time to get out of, as I know time (doesn't necessarily "heal" but as the saying goes...) heals all wounds. maybe with a bad memory or something, I don't know. but it is a very well known FACT that women NEVER forget anything. ever. no really. ever. try to prove me wrong.

so on a med update, here is the deal so far as I've learned: she is back on her old regimen of Trileptal and Seroquel (XR this time, not the usual one), but is working up to an enormous amount (in my opinion, especially for not being an enormous person physically). tapering up to 1200mg/day of Trilepta (in four 300mg forml, and I know at least one 300mg/day of Seroquel XR. input?, opinions?, thoughts?, comments? she was happy to let me know last night that she no longer craves what that darn lamictal (her docs favorite drug) DIRECTLY CAUSED HER TO CRAVE - alcohol and cigarettes. she smoked a lot of her life right up until the very day she set eyes on me, then quit COLD TURKEY. NO JOKE, and no small feat either. Amen to her abilities to devote her love the way she always has been able to. but it is getting more challenging every single day. not really progressively worse per se, but not better either. I don't mean to keep sounding like I have an incessant doubt on a doctor's ability for accuracy per patient, as this is the ONLY doc available around here for many many many miles, so I apologize if I repeatedly give that impression.

last night when I was in here in the office doing homework she came in and let me kiss her neck and cheek for a goodnight smooch. haven't been given the opportunity to kiss her lips for a very long time. or for that matter, ANY PHYSICAL CONTACT WHATSOEVER. NONE. and I mean NONE. but maybe someday. At least she showed recognition towards me at all. instead of the usual just closing the bedroom door with no words, except mayyybe the usual "bye." crap this is hard man. I know it is. and I knew it was going to be. perhaps I shouldn't write here when she is in a bad way - causing me to seek out help from you all instead of sitting here doing my homework. but I can't concentrate and learn from a book when my heart is going slowly through this.

I am very sorry to see recently that I have shown a minimal loss of patience for her down times. no outblasts or any of that stuff, just immediate passive-negative unproductive responses to our trying to fill out the crappy, confusing insurance form for my work to put her on that so she can afford the meds for a tiny fraction of retail cost. but I got/get frustrated sometimes, and can't completely contain it all the time.

but back to my immediate HUGE dilemma - how on earth shall I get myself out of such a hole I've dug myself into with such brash a comment as I said to her earlier tonight? oh Lord. this hurts. a lot.

so that is where we are at right now. in a bad spot here in the newlywed household. Oh, by the way in case I've never mentioned it, we got hitched this past June 19th. I am sure she is REALLY regretting ever accepting my asking her to marry, as she has never felt worthy of anyone her whole life. and she's lived a tough one I reckon. no foolin there man. I mean fighting most of her life with an undiagnosed and untreated problem. an amazing woman I have in my life, and I know it. I don't know what would happen if she ever knew it too. but I'd lay my money on some pretty darn incredible development.

"do unto others.... " "do unto others.... " do unto others.... " must keep that in mind. for my own sanity and retention of heart filled love.

that's all time will allow for this evening. night! :)
- C

p.s. I sure do wish I could write my papers for this class as easily and as fast as I dump all of my feelings and thoughts out to you all. heh.

Post Edited (seenee) : 10/11/2007 10:16:53 AM (GMT-6)

Seenee:

I can't imagine anyone would find you "selfish" for wanting to have your relationship back to "normal." Who would choose to be shut out of their spouse's life/intimacy? No one. It must be very very hard.

I know you're extremely busy, but I really would like to suggest you get some counseling for yourself, because what you're suffering from is the major illness of a spouse combined with a loss of support and affection. That is terrible. Everyone needs support and affection. While it may not be your wife's "fault," it still is very hard on you. You could use some back up (aside from us, naturally) and perhaps some guidance from a professional.

All the best.
I do not remember everything. just most things.

sorry folks for my extended absence. been a trying time lately. but I'm makin' it okay. I'll type a bunch more real soon, as I had a few great insightful revelations (or interpretations of actions if you will I suppose) that I'll cover as soon as I am done with my current paper. gotta get this written first, priorities you know! :)

I sure do appreciate your checking on me though. makes me feel that much more at home here. I found a great page that really resembled a lot that I have experienced during my lunch hour, when I should be studying also, but when something is this strong and overwhelming in your life, ya just gotta seek info, or at least I do.

here is the page I found: http://diaryofabipolar.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/i-fing-hate-being-bipolar/
just click on the "weight" link on the left if it doesn't default to that page. her story applies in many ways, except that my wife is not anywhere near this extreme with anything, and is unable to ever get pregnant due to a hysterectomy.

anyway, I have learned a lot over the past couple of weeks about this disease, and about myself with her and this disease. more on that soon. but anyway, back to writing this paper, which is why I just got out of bed to begin with. this weekend will be pretty tough on me I expect, but maybe not if I can keep focused on my studies and remind myself of my acceptance and level of understanding of all this now. she's going to wyoming for the weekend to see a good friend of ours perform with his band, and to turn the knife a little more, also visiting all the places we were going to do together soon. yeah. together. that was the idea. oh well. what can I do? nothing. not a doggone thing. but wait and hope. forever.

Chuck
p.s. communication is still nonexistent, but she talked to me yesterday more than she has in the last few weeks, which isn't to say much, but tonight I got a "babe" once instead of just no title at all at the end of a sentence. Good Lord, I am really sorry to go on and on about such little details, but as a husband who loves his wife more than she is willing to accept (at least currently - subject to change without notice of course) I'll take even the slightest hint of progress in a positive direction as a glimmer of hope. even a smidgen, a small ray of light that shines on a lonely household such as ours offers a seemingly open and inviting window to the Lord's grace. God bless us all.

Post Edited (seenee) : 10/18/2007 11:02:47 PM (GMT-6)

like a yo-yo goes up and down, so do the reactions of my honey. wow. I'm at work and she just left home for Wyoming for the weekend.

this past Wednesday night was the beginning of her set prescription of drugs: 1200mg Tripleptal, 300mg Seroquel XR (I think, or twice a day, I don't know, I need to ask her) and birth control pills to "control" her periods.

Hopefully I will have enough determination to get this blasted paper written and be done with that thing today. then I can enjoy this weekend with a great friend of mine/ours as he and I are building a really nice bookcase for our place.

see ya.
Chuck

Post Edited (seenee) : 10/21/2007 12:20:06 PM (GMT-6)

well, I just got a quick appt. with a counselor to help me try to find my place in all this. Because she and I know each other (I've ridden horses with her husband over the years and fixed their home computer, and such... she asked me from a counselor/patient if I was okay seeing a counselor who was also a good friend, and I naturally said YES. I am thinking it would help me because of the relaxed familiarity of a friend I would be confiding in and not someone I've never met. I don't know. that's in 45 minutes. and perhaps another one on Monday. I am glad she is getting me in before this weekend. this is going to be a tough weekend if I can't focus on me for a while. perhaps I am missing a silver lining here with this whole saga. but I don't know.

anyway, thank you for your consoling words. any positive input helps right now. I am going to have to force myself to write a crappy paper, which also bothers me a lot. I don't like turning in shoddy work as a student of any level of academia.

talk to you all soon. a very tired soul I am right now. and becoming exhausted through all the feelings that I was much stronger than this. but as the old saying says: "this too shall pass."

- C

Seenee,

I am so sorry you are hurting right now. I know how that rock in the bottom of your stomach feels.  You must believe in yourself and in the woman you love. Unfortunately, this beastly disorder is taking over her words and actions right now. Take the advice of LFW when she says to focus on what you CAN control.....your thoughts...your words...your actions. Time is on your side. Give the medicine time to work and while the meds are working, you can focus on your school work. Before you know it , you will have finished your paper and will have an update regarding your wife's trip and her thoughts.

It may not seem like it now, but she needs you to be strong and loving for the both of you right now. Don't let the disorder define your relationship for you. Learn all that you can about the disorder and its sympoms, its effects, and the types of problems you can expect. Don't let it manage you....you must learn to manage it. I know...easier said than done, but, you are in the best place to start managing your life together with bp.

I am so touched by each of your posts and your loving words for your wife. Your love for her, and your determination to support her in her illness, and an understanding about the disorder may be just enough to get you through some very rough times!

Stay Strong!

What good news. I hope this positive swing sticks and she realizes what a prize she has. I hope she truly deserves your devotion, but from your posts, I'm willing to believe that she does. I'm glad to hear things are looking up. When you've got a minute, I'd love to hear details. I'm nosy that way.