a lot to deal with/part 3....footballfan & dutchie

Hi Dutchie,

It sounds like you're having a rough, emotional time.  We're here for you.

I take clonazepam, strictly as I need to.  I only take it when the anxiety spikes.  You do not have to take it every day.  Talk to your doc again and explain this.

Weight gain...most of these anxiety, depression, bp meds do have this side effect, but I haven't gained any from clonazepam.

Did you call the number for EI?  I was really wanting to know if you guys got my reply to FBF and if it worked out getting in touch with the right people. 

FBF, I am not sure whether to be flattered that you count on me to "tell it like it is" with the accuracy of a bullet between the eyes (lol), or that you already assume I wouldn't be nice (as in you must feel I haven't been in the past)? I truthfully have always worked to be “nice” while still telling the straightforward truth. Forgive me if I have failed in the past. So for what it is worth...here goes...

Are you stubborn??? Opinionated IS stubborn. Are you flexible if someone makes a case to shift your thoughts?????....NOT EASILY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Therefore YES, you are stubborn (again…just my opinion). You definitely have a resistance to hold to those opinions of yours and NOT shift…so YES…that makes you HIGHLY stubborn IMO. You vest yourself in not shifting.

Now with that out of the way I have to point a few things out. You are acknowledging that you have suffered and dealt with depression before all this - off and on to varying degrees. You report that up until now, Dutchie's response to it did not feel supportive of you. How about now? The Dutchie of today…do you NOW feel supported? I have to ask you this next question...WHY if there is medication to help you deal with the depression, that has lasted beyond 6 months, would you NOT accept help via medication to lift it to the point that it will allow you to take positive steps forward without having to carry the intense weight of the depression along with it? Seems foolish to me. It would be like Dutchie saying...Yah, I'm BP, but I am going it alone without the help of the meds. If she did this, nothing for you both would have changed except the knowledge that she was BP. She would not be making the progress she is now, nor be gaining control over it the way she is now, nor would she be able to have the strength and consistency to be sorting through all you two are to make your lives better. The meds are helping Dutchie to finally gain the control in her life to be the person she always wanted to be for herself AND you and the girls. Why would you not afford the same thing to yourself and your family? You tell me…is that stubborn?? Some could categorize that also as just plain foolish, prideful and selfish? It would be highly different to me if you had tried all kinds of meds in the past and nothing worked, so you had the experience that ‘white knuckling’ it was the better way to go for you (as some of the BP’s on this site have shared has been their experience). But it is not for you based on what you shared – you’ve never taken the meds when the depression hits and stays around for a while. There was an episode of Oprah a while back (I think I saw it last year while I was laying about during my recovery and I was resting), that dealt with depression – she had celebrities coming forward and sharing their experiences and what had triggered it to begin with and what had helped. There was a male country singer who had come forward to share the elongated depression that hit as a result of his wife’s suicide. He and his wife were raising 6 kids together. Anyway, he talked about how he resisted the medication and didn’t want to acknowledge the depression because up until this time, he had always had excellent coping skills and didn’t want the meds – didn’t know who he’d become with them…blah, blah…. But eventually it became too much and he took them after a year of suffering and it getting so bad that he was barely functioning. In the end, what he discovered was simply that it brought back his ability to cope at a more efficient level again.. That once the brain chemistry had been altered for an elongated period of time due to any number of reasons, all the medication did was bring it back to the correct flow levels. Depression lowers the amount of various brain chemicals that we need to stay balanced. When they are thrown off due to any number of reasons (emotional stress can be one of them), it can then require the meds to reset the levels again to get them too normal. This singer was on the medication program for about 1 to 1 ½ years and then the chemistry was reset and he didn’t need them anymore. He encouraged ANYONE who was experiencing this to try and not get caught up in the stigma of the dx, or the need for meds. He said it gave him his life back (coupled with therapy of course). Again…Dutchie is certainly doing all she can to help herself, maybe it is time for you to do the same???? It could help you both in the end…don’t you think?

Hope that wasn’t too painful to hear. LFW

Dutchie,

Clonazopam can be for anxiety, but my pdoc prescribed it for sleep. I try not too take is every night, because I do not want to depend it. I also take Buspar for anxiety on a daily basis. I just wanted to let you know.

FBF, I appreciate your character. It is certainly an important thing to know about yourself that you can accept hard times, and work your way through them, that you can count on yourself for that. However, while you take pride in being able to "white knuckle" your way through adversity, and you see this as a source of pride in yourself...forgive me...but, you are NOT working smartly, and you don't strike me as a stupid man. So...I have to wonder why you are being so here.

The fact is, if you were to become a type 1 diabetic who needed insulin, would you resist taking it? Of course you would not, so why would you find that acceptable? This is NO different. Sometimes, you can't regulate things organically. SOMETIMES they require medication to help. The fact is, when you get sick and need an antibiotic…you TAKE IT!! AGAIN…THIS IS NO DIFFERENT! Is it ego connected to the stigma of taking these particular medications? What do you think of a person who is taking their medication for a condition such as depression or BP? Are they weaker in your eyes as a result, or brave to actually face the condition and utilize the resources around them to chemically rebalance things so they can have a better quality of life for themselves and others that they love?

FBF, you may have "waited" it out before when the depression has hit, you may have "talked" your way through it, “accepted” that it was/is there...But that is foolish on your part, because while you are doing that you are halting your life to do it in many other ways. You are postponing what there REALLY is to deal with in your life because THAT can be taken care of chemically. This IS NOT a personality thing…you didn’t FAIL at something and therefore you are suffering the consequences of the fallout in the way of depression…as in “you brought it on yourself…you should resolve it by yourself” type of thing. You know the phrase….”when you know better, you do better!” Well, you know better…YOU ARE NO LONGER IGNORANT about this…so there is NO excuse here or justification for you not to try to DO better and try the medication. You are not being brave, smart or intelligent, but instead…selfish, dumb and ignorant for no reason at all except EGO! Foolish reason to not do all you can on your part to help your self, your marriage and your family more. All your girls deserve better from you. And more importantly…YOU deserve better from you. Depression like you are describing is SO much easier to take care of these days. It is a course of treatment that is NOT ongoing in MANY cases. It lasts for 6 months or so…and when brain chemistry has been successfully reset to the optimum levels again the DOCTOR tapers you off the medication and the treatment (beyond therapy) is finished. They even have little animated movie demonstrations you can see showing examples of the changes in the brain chemistry from what correct flow looks like, and what happens in depression to that flow. This is a MEDICAL condition first and foremost when it lasts more than two weeks.

Again…my caveat is that if you had tried ALL the meds before and they were unsuccessful for you, it would be a different story. But when you know that your “thinking is a bit off” or that it interferes with life for you and your family for more than a few days….then there is NO excuse, including stubbornness. And all you shared to try and justify your position is really nothing more than excuses here. FBF, again…the excuse of “I have always been this way” doesn’t cut the mustard here. IMAGINE if your wife had done that….THANK GOD she has been smart enough, brave enough, and strong enough to face it and do something responsibly about it. THAT is real wisdom, to know when it is TIME to change ones habits, positions on issues, or attitudes. YOUR TIME HAS COME…so go do the right thing for ALL of you and get your STUBORNESS in check…It does not belong here and it is not attractive.

Please take this with ALL the care it is intended. I want only the best for you, Dutchie and the girls. LFW

Good evening everyone.

Mogs...Are you are on clonazapam as a sleep aid? As you have probably read, my doc prescribed this med to me for anxiety. However the anxiety I experience is not an everyday thing. He wants me on this med as a daily dose to help for this anxiety. I explained that I didn't want to be on something full-time, I do not feel it is necessary. He seemed to believe it was a good option for staying ahead of the anxiety. Reading on HW I am seeing several people that use it for a sleep aid. I slept enough in the past...when my brain wasn't racing I would shut it right down with sleep. The last thing I want to be on is something that is going to make me groggy. I am leaning strongly to not filling this Rx ( I will let my doc know, just so he stays informed) What do you think?

Can anyone relate to the sadness of looking back at yourself? This is what I am experiencing alot of. Guilt, shame amd realizing that it was not only FBF that I hurt through my actions. I can't help but believe that the people that know of our situation....FBF's parents, my mom, my sisters, must look at me in a different light. I am sure I hurt them in the way that they viewed their daughter/sister. It is very painful to look at myself in that way. It is hard for me to believe I was the one that caused all this hurt. And I can't imagine the pain our daughters would experience if they new what their mom did. They know FBF and I are going through some hard times and of course have seen my cry more than they should have, so they already have experienced feelings of fear for their parents. I see the extent of the damage I have caused and it just makes me so sad, and so so sorry. None of these people deserved this pain.

I would appreciate any tips for time management that people may have. Feelings of getting overwhelmed is a very prominent thing in my life. In January I start back to school, and I want to manage things the best way possible. FBF strongly encourages making lists and writing down a day plan. I think I am going to start these things soon and get them into practice, so it is habit by the time I am in school. Any other suggestions? I am not working right now and am trying so hard to fit all this good stuff in my life....exercising , reading, talking, etc., sometimes I feel overwhelmed with that! I've got to make changes, otherwise school is going to be a huge factor in this kind of feeling.

Anyway,any feedback is very much appreciated

Any suggestions for an over the counter sleep aid for FBF. He clearly does not get the sleep he should when he is on nights. This am when he got home he took one Nytol. He slept today longer than he has in years, but he does not like the feeling when he gets up.(still groggy and dragged out)

Thanks everyone

Dutchie

Dutchie,

Self reflection about the past is a good thing, as long as you balance that with recognizing the changes you have made today, and the mends you have been working to make to the people you harmed (which includes you). As to your family...you must recognize that we ALL make mistakes and you have the added information now, that you didn't have then, of the BP. If you were part of my family, I would ONLY think poorly of you if you didn't own your mistakes (you do), or when you learned of the BP, you didn't do everything in your power to get control of it and start facing your problems (all of which you have). Therefore, I would not look poorly at you, but admiringly and respectfully seeing you be brave enough to own it all, apologize for it, and work to put things right all around so that you from this day forward lived your life with honesty with yourself and others, integrity and responsibility.

As to schedule issues...MASTER CALENDAR...posted in plain site. Time management is a hard thing for many. Divide up your days in advance and map out the schedule. In other words, start choreographing your days like a dance, or putting a puzzle together. If something new comes that you have to fit in, try to do it with as much advance warning for yourself (and others) as possible. Write everything down...but in ONE central place. Agree to NOTHING unless you consult this master calendar. That's how I do it anyway....

Good luck, by starting now, you will get use to doing this by school time and it will be second nature. And the more complicated the schedule, the more this system will work as you will find ways to make it all fit together just like that puzzle. The key is KEEPING to the schedule and that takes discipline, and that just takes practice to develop. Hugs, LFW

LFW and Mogs ....thanks for the helpful tips and insight.
Mogs I hope you arer doing better this week.

As I have discussed before, I have these consuming feelings of sadness and shame. I feel like much of my day is spent either crying or on the very verge of it. That is not normal! FBF (I think) blames himself for me wanting to cry so much. I try to expalin to him that despite the tears, hes what make me feel good. He truly does give me a sense of peace and happiness. The tears come from what I have done...the pain I have caused; and to be quite frank it is very difficult to be upbeat and happy, when all I have to do is look into FBF eyes and see the pain. Don't get me wrong...for instance yesterday (my bday) FBF was working, so the girls and I went to church, then out to lunch, then to a movie, then to bring FBF a tea. We shared in some laughs throughout the day and that felt good, but I also shed some tears, and when we saw FBF, it ws hard...(FBF was having a difficult weekend). Like I have said and will continue to say..as much as I don't want to lose FBF, I certainly don't want to cause him any more heartache.

I know FBF is very confused about what he wants, he feels striped of his past and doesn't know who I am or what he can believe in. I get that. He struggles with not wanting to commit to someone who did this to him. My minister did his sermon this week on not letting your past define who you are. That it doesn't mean we forget or do not learn from it, but it does not define that person today and tomorrow. FBF asks me in a nut shell "how the future will be any different?" ; I explain in the best way I can, that I have something to compare it to. I know what bad decision making can lead to, I know what becoming too familiar with the opposite sex can lead to, and not having those barriers up to guard myself,marriage and family. I know these things now and I understand them. I understand that love is not something you give in order to get something in return. Love is an unconditional, giving experience. I get that know. And I get that it feels so much better on this side of the fence. I threw the word around with too much ease...and for that I am sorry.

Today I went this career assessment workshop as part of the proces to apply for funding for school. Mogs I am getting a taste of what you must have went through. HOLY SMOKES....I think a heart transplant has less paper work and red tape! I will go through with the schooling regardless, but we thought we might as well try for the funding.
This am was a personality test and apptitude test..those went ok, but this afternoon when we received our resultsand had to do sort of a self assessment I had a really difficult time. I was on the verge of tears because as I tried to answer the questions, it was facing who I am now and the person I tried to portray to everyone before. It was diificult because it was like seeing that there was no clear cut me...I contain bits and pieces of many personalities. It was hard.

I still struggle with this Clonazapam thing. I dropped off the Rx yesterday (haven't picked it up yet) Does it help with these depressive states as well?....because I think ultimately that is what leads to the anxiety..right? Again it is not something I want to take full time. FBF stated last night that maybe I am in need of something more. I don't know.

Dutchie

Dutchie, maybe it is time to discipline some of your "sorrow and tears". What I mean by that is this...instead of allowing yourself to feel this way "all day" or "all the time". Make an appointment with yourself to allow yourself to feel it all...wallow in it....but only for 10, 20 or 30 minutes a day - at the designated time you make the appointment time with yourself for. Then, put it down for the day and let it go all other times that day and GET ON WITH IT. Allow joy and hope and positive energy in all the other times. I once saw an interview with this young woman who use to be absolutely GORGEOUS, but was HORRIFICALLY disfigured in a car wreck as her face & hands, and much of her body were burned away (and I do mean GONE...her hair, nose, ears...you name it GONE). She said she cried and "felt sorry for herself" for the first two years (God only knows this poor gal had reason), and then her cousin told her to allow herself only 5 minutes a day to wallow in all her regret, sadness...etc. And the rest of the time she needs to put it away and get on with it - or she was no good to herself or anybody else. She said learning to do this saved her, and she was so grateful her cousin spoke up, she now does this, and it has allowed her to move forward, stop feeling like a victim in her life and she has begin to find happiness again, and is finding ways to help others in her life. She says when the thoughts hit her, she just reminds herself that from “blank to blank” she will bring it out and “feel it, cry, rage…whatever”, but for now she is putting it down until her 5 minutes of sorrow for the day comes (that’s all she allows herself…5 minutes a day). She was one of the most inspirational people I have ever seen. She really drove the message home to me, there comes a time that even our pain can stop us if we let it, or we can own it, structure appropriate times to release it, and get on with it. It does take time to learn to discipline yourself in this way, and practice being successful at it. But, it can be learned and it can only help. Maybe it is time for you to structure this? Just some thoughts. HUGS, LFW

I often wonder if in some ways because BP’s are so susceptible to mood changes, they are not like human sponges soaking up all the moods of others, or situations around them unconsciously. Therefore if that is the case, should one of their strategies be how to close their absorption ratio? And how can they do that? There has to be a way. Just some thoughts…LFW

FBF, Clearly you are pleased with the letter she wrote, and clearly you would feel better to know he has read it. So here is my question to you... If it is sent, do you really think you will begin to turn a corner on some of this and being able to start moving past some of it? If you can honestly say YES...then I think, without question, it needs to be sent.

How would you feel to write your own letter to HER? Of course being responsible in what you communicate, but still sharing your feelings on the subject. You can acknowledge that you are not sure she was aware of the affair, but you felt she should know that your wife, after the affair came to light, was dx with BP - and for her, it was nothing more than a symptom of that. (Offer a bit of explanation if you want about BP). That while you are a man with pride and principles, you are also father and co-parent to 2 young children, and a man who does love his wife very much, therefore you have made the decision to do everything you can to work through the problems it has caused in your marriage. That knowing this information has been hard, but it is allowing the two of you to work through some needed issues. That you have chosen to write to her to help acknowledge what happened, as well as help in your own personal healing and hopefully support the positive healing taking place between you and your wife. You are sorry if this causes her pain. That was not your intent. But if the situation were reversed, you would want to know and would do your best to understand what prompted such a letter. You hope she will try to understand as well. Plus, if I were you, I would include a copy of Dutchie’s letter to the husband, and tell her you are doing that so she knows what communication has taken place. And with Dutchie’s letter, I would include a copy of your letter to the wife, and have Dutchie tell him in the interest of full disclosure, you both felt he should know about the letter sent to his wife by you as well. Make it clear at the end of BOTH letters that there is NO interest in every having any contact. These were just things you felt the need to communicate. It can all be very responsible and therefore hopefully eliminate some of the “feared threat” it may pose, but achieve to goal of letting it go and closing the chapter on anything unfinished with them.

Anyway, for what it is worth….those are my 2 cents. I hope it allows you some food for thought. My best to you both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LFW

I do agree with the sentiment that bps can be emotional sponges. I am certainly so completely in tune with every emotional bit of "data" in the room that I often find it exhausting. Events like parties can be overwhelming. Family events are nightmarish and I have to keep them severely limited. There is a way to work on that. It's called cognitive thinking. Every therapist and psych I've ever had has tried to get me to improve at it, and it still isn't sticking. But I'm not such a good practicer, either. The author of the book is David Burns, and it's called "Feeling Good."

Dutchie,

Congrats on the little one.  That is great news

I just wanted to post and let you know (let you both know) that I am thinking of you and routing for you.  I know this stuff is so hard to get through.  Me and my bf are still trying every day to get through whatever mood I'm in.

There are still times I feel so alone with it.  But too, my bf is trying so hard to be there for me.  He's been more supportive the last little bit.  It is so good to have the support from him.  I am always so scared my moods will cause him to really question our relationship.

FBF-I hope you are feeling better.  I was reading through the posts and I hope you aren't experiencing depression, but if you are, I hope that you get help with it.  I loathe depression.

Anyway, hugs to you both.  Have a good week.