Epidural

I am sure you will do just fine. I hope it is able to offer you some relief. I only had local instilled before they put the needle in and it really wasn't that bad...I actually had a worse time of laying on my stomach on the table. That used to be my favorite position to sleep, I even did it again starting the first night after each of my children were born! Now, that is just a part of the me who is gone.

Remember Ry they can take away everything else but the HOPE! It is a sad day when we are practically forced to undergo a treatment that is in the very least invasive and carries risks greater then person with actual pain becoming addicted.From everything I have seen and read about these injections the benefits are not that greater then the risks unfortunately way too many Docs want those numbers documented for the world to see before they move onto more conventional med treatment.

I think honestly they think we go inot treatment and procedures convincing ourselves it isnt going to work for us,like we wouldnt take relief where and however much we could get it? Let's face it folks who have not experienced the kinds of everlasting,all encompassing pain as most of us have cannot begin to fathom it, I know I didnt and for those many times I thought some patient was clearly overreacting to the pain I am more sorry then I can begin to say.

Not all of us react to pain in the same degree or the same ways,wach of us have ways and limits and thresholds that vary thus making treatment as varied from one person to another.

Number one mistake of most Docs is assuming each of us are going to have pain or not have pain whichever the case may be to any certain diagnosis.

For instance I was having some trouble a few years back in teh morning when I got up,it was really kind of weird and was making no sense to me ,some difficulty breathing,moving from bed to floor a real chore if you may and if I got to the floor or laid on my stomach as mentioned in previous post I could not get up without sceraming.

Made an appointment with my Ortho who ordered an MRI and it came back that I had a degenerative bone disease in the family of ankylising spondylosis of L-3,4,5 and S-1! Wow what a shock no dount as I had very little back problems and even less back pain with the exception of those mentioned above.

To make this a little shorter the Doc went and got the Neuro guy in the office with him and he wanted to schedule me for the injection and I flat refused thanked him for his time and said something to the effect that I would return if and when it bothered me more. He then said to me " Oh you will return" I give you no more then 6 months and you will be back begging for relief.

That was 5 years ago and as of this date I have not had to return for those injections nor have I had more then a scant increase in pain in my back or any of the symptoms that sent me looking for answers in the first place. I count my blessings on that one each night! I have seen so many folks on these forums with such horrific pain due to this very diagnosis and disease and some bedridden only a few years after finding it.

My point in all of this is the Neuro felt sure that I would have that intensity of pain with this disease as it is noted for,why dont I? Why do others become bedridden and I have not? Because each of us are different and our bodies react to things differently and Doctors need to keep those things in mind when treating us and treat each of us as the need calls for not textbook theories!

I am hoping for you and certainly others here are as well. I can say to you to be sure and follow the instructions post procedure and make sure someone is with you to also get those as the doubt and fear you are having may make you not recall everything they say to you. Dont hesitate to call them back at the first sign of anything being out of the norm and if you have to make yourself a pest do so!

The best piece of advice here is not to have great expectations but reasonable ones,dont look for instant relief and total relief but note any degree of relief to be some help and if it works ok on day one hope it works better on day two. Many times we set ourselves up for let down by expecting too much too soon.

Please remember to let us know how your doing and dont hesitate to come here with questions for those who have already been thru them.

Again good luck!

Ryand you will do fine. Do come back on Wednesday and let us know how Tuesday went!

Thanks to all of you for your support. I made it through!! It wasn't fun. The doctor agreed to give me sedation, but what she gave me was 1 mg of versed - she might as well have given me saline for all the good it did. They did not allow me to take any pain medication that morning and the procedure did not begin until nearly 1 p.m. By the time I got to the office, I was already a mess - I could barely walk to get into the office. They told me they were not going to use x-ray guidance, which really scared me and made things worse. Even the information they gave me said the procedure should always be done with flouroscopy (sp?). I went ahead and did it because what other option did I have? I am desperate for help.

By the time they were done, I was in pretty bad shape. They had still not given me any pain medication and the procedure was painful too. I asked for a shot of pain medicine before I left, but the doctor refused. The nurse could see how bad it was and asked me if I had any pain medicine with me in my purse, so she brought me something to drink and shut the curtain so I could take something. Still I was unable to walk at all when they released me and I had to be wheeled out to the car. My dear friends took me to their house and pampered me for the evening. I was only able to sleep for 60-90 minutes at a shot all night. I got up lots of times to ice my back and take pain medication. I think I am finally getting back ahead of the pain, so things are back to the way they were. No relief yet, but they told me it would take several days before I would notice the steroids starting to help reduce swelling (thereby reducing nerve impingement which will in turn reduce the pain they say).

I remain hopeful that it will help, so I am hoping to be able to reduce my pain medication in the next few days. We'll see what happens. I am a bit disillusioned with my doctor after this whole process, so I am not sure where to go next if I don't have a positive result here.

Thanks again for all of your positive thoughts and encouraging words.

Oh Ryand, I'm so sorry that it went so badly. I've had multiple joint injections, mostly to my shoulder, hip and SI joints, but I've also had several rounds of RF and epidurals to my lumbar spine, mid thoracic region and upper thoracic. By choice, all of these have been done without anesthesia. I choose to be capable of getting up and leaving whever I am ready instead of dragging someone else along so the hospital can discharge me. In fact, except for the hip injections (right hip), I usually drive home.

Some of the reason for this is that I've worked in HealthCare for many years and I'm well versed in these types of procedures. Aftre so many yearsof chronic pain, I've also developed a high threshold for pain and I've known this Doc for many years. I'm not so sure that I'd let anyone else near my spine with a needle and I definitely wouldn't if they were not going to use flouroscopy! I've also never been told not to take my pain meds prior to any injection.

Ceratinly, the possibility of infection is there with any injection, but the actuall rates of occurrences for this are very low. Even though I am immunosuppressed, I've never been concerned about that possibility. Once, my old Rheumy warned me that I shouldn't get any injections. My response was that I wasn't shooting up on the corner, I was having injections done in the hospital by a qualified MD whom he had referred me to!

It is true that it can take a few days to begin to get relief and that the pain may even be worse until it skicks in. If you aren't feeling better by Friday morning, or at least back to your pre-injection "normal", call the Doc and INSIST that they see you ASAP. There's no point in suffering in silence over the weekend. They can give you additional meds and something to help you sleep. I know, I've done this.

I made the mistake of agreeing to try Botox injections into my neck and shoulder muscles to relieve the muscle spasms. Lucky for me, I had a bad reaction. I was told that I'd have more pain for the first 2 or 3 days and then the relief should slowly seep in. On the morning of day 5, I called their office and announced that I was on my way in. I did not ask for an appt. I just told the receptionist that I was coming. I was in too much pain to sleep and they HAD to see me. They did and they temporarily bumped my meds and added additional muscle relaxants and sleep meds.

It's kinda funny to me reading this now. So many have done really well with Botox and for me it was a nightmare. Meanwhile, I can do an epidural like nothing and for some, like yourself, it's a horrible experience.

I really do hope that your feeling some relief by the time you read this. Best Wishes.

Checking in with you and keeping the vigil. Sure hoping to hear from you soon and keeping my fingers crossed you are getting better.

I know rest is good for you right now but if you get a minute let us know how you are.

Thanks, Gramps. I am at a loss for what to do next. I think I will go ahead with the follow-up appointment and see what she says. After that, I am considering making an appointment with my GP and just laying it all out for him to see if he is willing to return me to the regimen of meds that the hospital discharged me with after my last "acute episode." That combo really worked and allowed me some relief. I might even look up the hospitalist and see if she sees patients through a private practice as well as working in the hospital. Perhaps that would be the route to go since they are the ones who observed me during that hospital stay.

It is frustrating, to say the least. I want to print out my current PM doctor's website and wave it in her face. It says "Pain is a very subjective and personal experience, but it is also very real. Left untreated, chronic pain can become physically disabling, leading to depression, loss of sleep, missed work days and decreased physical functioning. The good news is that with proper management, chronic pain is very treatable. The University Medical Center uses the newest, most advanced and comprehensive approaches to managing pain so that no one should have to suffer from disabling chronic pain anymore." I want to say to her - you said no one should have to suffer, so TREAT ME! We know a regimen of meds that work!! So what if you think it is a lot of meds. You've seen me while I was on the regimen and I was clearly not impaired by them. It was obvious I was not high or somnolent. I have a high tolerance for the meds - every person is different. Maybe every person should be treated differently with that in mind!

OK, sorry for the venting. I just get so frustrated with these doctors who say they help people but what they really mean is they help people with the easy problems. If a patient has a problem that is not readily apparent or easily treated, they show you the door after milking your bank account for all you are worth. You are right about that, Gramps! They are a booming business, that's for sure.

I, had the series of three shots in my spine- C6 a d C7. I, like someone else who posted before me, had no relief after the first two, but man, the third time was the charm! I feel great, better than I have in years. it's been a couple weeks, don't know how long it will last, but i am so happy with the results.

I am sorry Ry and I thin I like this Doc of yours less and less each post from you.

Steroids work rather quickly with some effect and continue to wrk in smaller increments as time goes on and I will explain this so you will see what I mean.

They inject steroids into women who are in premature labor to "speed up" the growth of cells in the baby so that it has better and more functioning lung cells as they are more mature enhancing the babies chances for a healthier respitory system at it's early birth.

That is what the simple explaination of just how steriods work,they increase the cells lifespan and speed up its process therefore in spinal injections making premature cells become older more productive cells and decrease the inflammation caused by the very old or damaged cells. That is by far not all of it but it gives you some idea of pathology therefore her saying the results may take weeks to get just isnt feasible is it?

Not to say that relief may last weeks into months and become more as time goes on but I would expect to see some immediate ones that are more profound.

Dont give up on finding a Doc as they are out there as Gramps says but few and far between in some places of the Country and it does seem to be some states are far worse then others.

It is a long road and filled with many ups and downs for alot of those to gain any relief to speak of and this is the very reasons Gramps does what he does as it shouldnt be this way in a world where medicine is plentiful and we euthanize animals but leave humans to suffer.

 

Your on the right track in your thinking Ry. It will go down in your records as another failed attempt so that it may pave the way for another doc to go on to something else as many times they get hung up on these injections hoping to some extent that will get lucky and it is in the stars that sooner or later they will,like the poster who d=sai the 1st 2 sets didnt do a thing I think and the 3rd worked great! If you think of the pathology of this med and the issues at hand with whatever is causing the pain it is only right in saying that at somepoint the steroids will catch your problem in a state of inflammation and reduce that as it is suupose to and therefore relieving pressure on the nerves that are causing it,hence why it wroks some of the times and why it doesnt others.

It also has many many other factors at work and one of those is the right placement of the med and without it being done via fluroscopy it is simply at shot in the dark! I would think that being able to actually see the area of problem is just asking for a better outcome then trying to recall it from x-ray or just hoping your right wouldnt you?

I had injections in both knee's before and after replacement and one knee worked well before and the other not at all and vice versa with the other knee. So it is anybodies guess as to etiology of how and when they will work. It is a matter of howmany and how much your willing to go thru to finding the right time right place.

Keep looking for a Doc even if your getting some relief from what you have as we never can have to may options open to us and I am not saying to Doc shop here just keep a running line for a better treatment option even if you dont have to use it for years to come.

Always always keep hope that tomorrows med student may be the finder of that one procedure that works for all.

Well darn sweety. You already know how I feel about your current Doc and looking for a new one is a Great! Idea. However and there always seem to be these and the but's doesnt there?

If this is the prescribing Doc of the only thing that is providing any relief at the moment I would do a few things first before letting them know I am leaving their not so great care.

I realize the PT folks reccomended the new one but and there it is again,Lol it doesnt guarentee he will prescribe meds soooo I would first ask for a copy of my records from the Doc,make the appointment for the new one suggested and tell them it is for a consult,keep the appointment and be sure and tell the new Doc that the old one prescribes this and that and what all you have done to date by the old old Doc and what and how much relief you have gotten from each thing the old Doc has done for you and aare at the point where you and the old Doc have kind of came to a standstill and you need better pain relief and they have no further suggestions on how to obtain this.

Now also you want to make sure if the new Doc prescribes for you that you tell him when your last refill was and when your due to run out just so he knows your on the up and up with him and I realize he can see from your records all of this but it makes it sound more not so trying to get more before your time behind anyone's back better coming from you.

If he changes the meds you are on to something different or stronger or increases the current meds dose then all of that will matter not so much but you have been honest and set the groundwork for that kind of relationship.

You would be surprised at how many Docs think your trying to hide something if you dont bring up the point of what you are currently on.

If you and the new Doc decide that you like the relationship and want to continue it then you notify your old Doc and I always do this two ways to cover my behind,make a call and send a letter of intent, you dont have to give thanks here but it doesnt hurt to be nice and stay away from the rude side of things as you never eve know when you may have to go back for some reason and leaving on a bad note is going to make that almost impossible.

I wish you the best of luck and please do keep us informed of the progress.

I have found these things to assist in the transition and obtaining a new relationship between you and a Docs office to be very beneficial and this comes from years in the field and years in the CP game itself.

Ryand! There are all source or ways to find a new Doctor, hun. Try www.webmd.com or do a google search or ask from friends. I totally agree with everyone else in saying get yourself a new Doctor and do it NOW!!! We all deserve to be treated as people not lab rats. I'll send you Prayers and well wishes.... We all luv ya and Hope you'll feel better soon. I had to switch pain management doctor cause he would'nt talk to me before any of my procedures, and let me tell you, the doctor I left, did 10 injections (8 facets and two into the spinal canal) done without any sedation and I remember him saying I'm sorry after all my ouches. Never, never will I have any other injections without being sedated cause they truly hurt. So we know and we care about you so get a new doctor, okay.....soft HUGZ to you..............