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Posted 11/22/2010 7:43 PM (GMT 0)
My PM doctor took me off my other medications (fironol and valium) and put me on tramadol and lyrica. I was on those 2 for almost a week and it made my life hell! I was repeating words, not able to fully finish sentences, feeling of out of body experiences, shaky, weak and major lower muscle aches. I called my PM left a message and called back to talk to his receptionist and I haven't had a call back since I left the message last week. The one reason I called was because I had a "flare up" I guess. Every single muscle in my upper body was spasming and I was almost desperate enough to call an ambulance. The reason I didn't, is because I felt that the hospital wouldn't have been able to help me.

So, I decided to take myself off the tramadol and lyrica and went back to percocet and valium. My pain has decreased a lot and I don't ever want to be on those meds again.

Has anyone else had problems with tramadol and lyrica? I was thinking, "if I truly had nerve pain, wouldn't those meds work for me?" So it makes me wonder if I don't have nerve pain, even though I have all symptoms of it.....


Any response would be great, if not, thank you for reading
Posted 11/22/2010 11:25 PM (GMT 0)
B-
The muscle spasms are probably from quitting the Valium. Usually I have to go off it very slowly, and still get spasms but not as bad when I quit Valium cold turkey.

Most likely the sleepiness/confusion was from the Lyrica. How much did he have you on? It might be worth trying a lower dose. I know when I went down to 50mg 1x/day the side effects were greatly improved & I still get some benefit.

I wouldn't self-diagnose based on your reaction to a single med. Lots of people have issues with one med or another. I couldn't tolerate Neurontin, but Lyrica at low doses works quite well for me. Other people tolerate Neurontin better. Everyone is different.

Your doctor ought to be able to help you manage the transition. I really get aggravated at doctors who insist that you can't change pain meds without first getting their approval, but then they can't be bothered to return a phone call. That said, I'd be careful about just changing back on your own. If your doc said that if you had probs tolerating the new meds that it was okay to go back to the old ones, then no worries. If he didn't already tell you it was okay to do so, I'd be very careful. We've had so many people lately who've gotten kicked from their clinic b/c of making decisions without hearing back from their PM first.

Hope you find some relief soon!
frances
Posted 11/22/2010 11:34 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you so much for the response, Frances. I was on the valium for about 10 weeks. I took anywhere from 10 to 20 mg a day of it. I was only on 100 mg of tramadol and 25 mg of lyrica. I am sure he will be angry about me changing my medication but I felt I had to do what was best for me at the time. I am finding that I am having flare ups 1 time a week for up to 48 hours of straight hell pain. I see him again on the 8th of December and honestly, he he gets upset with me about stopping my medication and returning to my old stuff I will probably lose all self control. I hate treating myself and have done every single thing the doctors have told me to.

I guess I am just extremely sensitive to some medication over others and you are absolutely right about being careful. My main concern is withdrawing and overdosing from taking different medications. Thank you so much for your insight I really truly appreciate it!
Posted 11/23/2010 1:01 AM (GMT 0)
I couldn't tolerate either Lyrica or Neurontin. They interacted with tramadol, which helps with my fibromyalgia muscle and tendon pain, although not enough. I thought neurontin was working for a while, but after I got off it I realized I felt better off it. I had a week of suffering after stopping it cold turkey though. Cymbalta was no better. I gave that up after only 2 weeks for tremors, headache, insomnia, etc.

My doc never actually gets the message when I complain about side effects. The nurse or assistant or whatever she is just tells me, "Oh you still have vicodin," or some such nonsense. The vicodin isn't working any more and I don't dare take anything extra with tramadol because I always get interactions. Then I wait a few weeks for my appointment and get put on something else just as useless.

One thing I learned - never start two meds at once. You can't tell which one is giving the side effects.
Posted 11/23/2010 1:32 AM (GMT 0)
I got muscle cramps with the tramadol, I only lasted on it a week, just didn't suit me nor have I managed to tolerate any of the anti depressants, just seem to spin me out. I'm much happier on my Norspan patches with BT meds. I just told my doctor they were spinning me out, they were happy to change me once I explained my reaction. I wouldn't have been able to drive or look after my kids or work otherwise. Hopefully once you get hold of your doctor he will be sensible about it. But keep a log of you trying to get hold of him so if there is a problem , you can say well I rang you on these dates but I never got a reply etc....
Good luck, golitho
Posted 11/23/2010 1:48 AM (GMT 0)
Breezy - please do be careful w/Valium. I know you didn't ask about it, but having taken it myself--and having had a horrible experience getting off of it--I only wanted to mention that it can be one tough drug. My doc had me on 50mg/day for six months, and while it was helpful, it was several weeks of hell getting off of it. (Totally not trying to sound preachy...I know not everybody has trouble with it, but I wouldn't want anyone going through what I did). wink
Posted 11/23/2010 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
Hi breezyP,

Stopping Lyrica was the worst for me besides taking it! I know it works for some...but for me Lyrica was a BAD BAD thing! It was bad when I was on it and worse when I went off of it! Just be careful hun! Take care of you!

Hugs
Beckey
Posted 11/23/2010 3:41 AM (GMT 0)
I never start more than one new med at a time. If you have problems or an allergic reaction, you can't tell which med is causing the problem.

Plus, if you go from one med right on to a new one, it's tough to tell if any problems are due to withdrawal or are side effects of the new med.

Lyrica works well for some people and not at all for others. You can't confirm nerve pain based on how you react to lyrica.

Good luck.
Posted 11/23/2010 4:46 AM (GMT 0)
Wow, lots of responses! Thank you so much. I guess we all have our own story and responses to medication. I am very new to this whole chronic pain thing (3 months) but I have tried even more medication than I have stated. I don't know why he would put me on 2 at the same time when I have never taken it before. I guess that is something I will have to be more diligent about in the future.

Regarding the valium- After about 8 weeks I went off of them because people were saying I was a pill addict but that is so far from the truth. I only take my medication when I need, never more, ever. So after 2 days I was twtiching and jerking but I wasn't sure what that was from. I suspected maybe a withdrawal from valium. I often wonder how bad could it really be coming off of a narcotic? I think that is why he put me on the tramadol and lyrica. Kind of makes sense. Right now I am taking maybe 10 mgs a day of the valium but only if I truly need it. So Im not sure if I have pain because Im withdrawling from it or if I have pain because I have pain. Does that make sense?? Thank you so much guys. This is such a wonderful and informative forum. Again thank you!

I hope you all find comfort even if it's just for one day *hugs*
Posted 11/23/2010 8:56 AM (GMT 0)
B-
As you are very new to the process, I'm not sure how familiar you are with chronic pain management. It is very different from getting pain meds for short term pain, like a broken arm.

For short term pain, the doctor sends you home with a bottle of pain meds & maybe follows up with you once, if at all. Though it's not really right, many people take an extra pill if needed & may even store leftover pills in the medicine cabinet in case they experience pain in the future, so they don't have to go to the doctor's.

With chronic pain, it is very different. A single doctor (pain specialist or primary care doctor, usually) sees you on an on-going basis. They expect the meds to be taken exactly as prescribed & have a number of ways of verifying that including unannounced urine analysis testing & pill counts, sometimes between appointments.

If your doctor is already mentioning addiction issues, you continuing to take meds he wanted you off of is likely to raise red flags. If a doctor finds his/her chronic pain patient is taking old medicine/extra medicine/other habituating medicines/etc., typically the doctor refuses them any treatment, marks the patient's file &, in some cases, adds the patient's name to a state or regional registry as a problem patient. That means that not only do you lose your own doctor, but you are unable to find any other doctor anywhere near your home who will treat you.

Only you know whether the risk is worthwhile for your situation. I only share this as information so you understand that there is a risk that by not continuing to phone the doctor until you get a response (I know, sometimes that can take days & requires enlisting family members to help make the incessant calls) approving you to go back on the original meds. It's an unenviable decision to have to make & I'm in no position to judge. Just sharing how the process works.

peace,
frances
Posted 11/23/2010 3:21 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you frances. I will just give you a quick run down on me and the docs here in Alberta. I had been seriously assaulted causing severe whip lash injury to my neck in August. I had a previous, serious car crash in 2008. I have damaged every single ligament in my neck besides c1-2. As the MRIs started they started noticing other things like moderate osteophytes forming on every bone in my neck as well as spinal stenosis. I guess it's called ligamentous flavum hypertrophy. He said there is some pretty bad damage to my neck. They then did a thoracic MRI which showed 2 bulging discs and 1 disc protrusion. I just turned 33 (not sure if that is relevant to my injuries and degenerative changes). The one reason why he hasn't put me on something stronger is because I don't have insurance. IT is all out of pocket. I am assuming that he didn't want me on the narcotics because they are quite habit forming and I also assume that he wanted to try to see if something else would help. He never came out and said,"hey, you're addicted to pills. Only my husband really. He, I assume again, was having a bad day and doesn't understand.

Doctors here have to write out what is called a triplicate prescription. Everyone gets a copy including the physicians and surgeons of Alberta to see what doctor is giving out the most narcotics and why. Until I have a complete diagnosis, my doctors, both primary and pain management are hesitant to keep me on narcotics. I assume that is why I am going for the bone scan today and another MRI after Christmas to see how things have changed if at all.

Im not concerned too much at this time. I have pain every day, all day and even through the night. I just feel that narcotics have a stigma to them based on everyone's reaction to what I have been on (friends and family) that I try my best to only use it when necessary. I am so happy to be bringing my husband with me to see the PM doctor on the 8th so he can get a better understanding as well on what has and is happening to me.

Thank you again for taking the time to chat with me. Im not offended at all and you do understand more than I do in regards to this. I just know one thing, I want my life back, wether it's coming off the meds all together or taking something where I can actually have a life :(
Posted 11/24/2010 12:54 AM (GMT 0)
stopping those two meds at once and just discontinuing is real bad, it doesn't give you a chance to try the lyrica and give it a real shot. i think some of the hard time you had was butalbital and valium withdrawal that is severe and maybe should be a inpatient detox. i'm not sure of your pain but if you get the dose of lyrica right and still avoid side-effects you can get a good effect.
Posted 11/24/2010 2:18 AM (GMT 0)
spinal soldier, That is the one thing I was unsure about the lyrica. Does it start working like an anti depressant or does it start working right away? My PM doctor didn't discuss this with me. I believe I am having withdrawals from the medication because I basically feel like Im getting the flu when I haven't taken the medication after a couple of days. Im so lost......
Posted 11/24/2010 9:31 PM (GMT 0)
first canadian socialized healthcare stinks. OK now that i got that off my mind, lyrica starts to work faster than anti-depressants but still takes 3-5 days to really get going. lyrica works on the gabanergic system of your CNS and also effects levels of glutamate and substance P. the valium works on the GABA1 receptors by making your own gamma-aminobutyric acid more enhanced. now if your were taking fioranol one of it's active ingredients is butalbital which is a barbituate that also enhances GABA and has a withdrawal syndrome thats very bad with abrupt d/c. benzodiazepines and barbituates have a severe withdrawal syndrome that is far more dangerous than opiates, and it can be fatal. in benzo. withdrawal your seziure threshold drops that is why they slowly take you down and sometimes use phenobarbital to prevent seizures. i still cannot believe they stopped those two meds in particular not to mention starting the lyrica and tramadol. it may take 2-3 more days to feel normal. you have a lot of options i'm sure your doctor is not informing you about and in the next couple days i will throw a few at you. there is one question; is your pain under control?
Posted 11/24/2010 9:47 PM (GMT 0)
spinal soldier, I cracked up laughing at your comment about socialized healthcare....LOL it's so true! My pain has been Okay I guess. I mean, my pain is not at a 6-7-8 or higher. It hasn't been that high in about 5 days. It's more a 4-5 which seems somewhat tolerable to me, but I still go through up and downs through out the day. It's just a deep constant ache in my neck and in-between my shoulder blades. I actually just got a call from my family doctor asking to see me tomorrow regarding my spine clinic (pain management doctor) consultation. Im way more scared of my family doctor than my PM doctor LOL I will just have to be honest with her. Sometimes I can tolerate my pain only because when you get a bit of relief from it, it feels like a world of difference! Even though I do suffer every single day. I hope she doesn't get angry with me for stopping the meds, but how can a doctor just abruptly stop me on a medication that has serious side effects? When he first took me off the valium and I started the tramadol and lyrica, my heart rate was actually irregular. So I am very confused and tired of being on this and that and this and that. I wont see my Pm doctor until the 8th. I hope I answered your questions that you asked me. Sometimes I go off course
Posted 11/25/2010 9:28 PM (GMT 0)
Hi breezyp, I am on lyrica and cymbalta for the nerve pain in my face. I can take tramal when needed. Other than feeling occasionally shaky and spacey, well I am coping with this combination. If I am a bit late taking any of these medications I get a pretty good idea of just what my pain would be like without them, they must be helping me, even though it feels like they are not because of the pain I am in.
My pm doctor recently told me that the 'unknown' is just how long it will take for the drugs to calm the nerve down, could be months, or even years. Now I understand, I did not know this, I just thought they were not working.
I have learnt over the years that antidepressants can make me twitch big time, even the smallest dose, I wish I had known it was the drug causing the twitching, this might have saved me a lot of grief.
I feel for your plight, and I know that feeling of just wanting your life back! I am into my seventh year now, so I have had to adjust my thinking to see the pain as part of my life, accepting this is hard, but I still have faith that it will one day go.
You have had some pretty good advice from other members, it is a wonderful place to come for support.
Radles
Posted 11/26/2010 12:24 AM (GMT 0)
Just an update. I seen my doctor today and she explained a few things to me. A lot of it went in one ear and out the other. I am not sure why I couldn't grasp everything she was saying. She said I absolutely need to stop all medication except for the lyrica (which she put me back on) and the immovane. I thought 2 times this week I was getting the flu and a cold and she explained to me that I am withdrawing from the medication. I have to agree with previous posters, it is AWEFUL! I had no idea it would be this bad. I have thrown up, have had vertigo, felt dizzy, and all around feeling unwell. She advised me to treat myself like I have the flu; plenty of rest and fluids. She also wants to see me once a week for the next four weeks. She is a great doctor. This is my family doctor not my PM doctor. I am going to comply with every single thing she is telling me to do.

I really appreciate all the comments and advice. Thank you so much! If anyone has any advice on how to deal with the withdrawal from the valium and how long it takes please let me know. Hugs!
Posted 11/26/2010 9:19 PM (GMT 0)
hey there, so i am right in thinking that now you are taking lyrica only. you discontinued the percocet and the valium and if you were ever taking fiorinal you have now stopped. if i am right and now all your on is lyrica and anti-virals, first off what was your dose and duration of use of valium and which perc. were you on ? 5 ? 10mg/325, 5/325, 7.5/500 ? and what was the dose and how long. a good thing about the lyrica is it can calm valium withdrawal a little and help prevent you from having a seizure. valium withdrawals can last 3 weeks to a month, not that bad in your case. valium has one of the longer half-lifes of most anything so it will take a little while but it seems this doctor sounds a little more knowledgeable so if you can have her manage your whole case it will probably workout good for you. i will be in touch, good luck NICK B
Posted 11/27/2010 12:31 AM (GMT 0)
Hey NICK B, I am not sure what you mean by being on anti virals. I am taking a sleeping med called imovane. But you are right about everything else.

I was taking 20 mgs of valium for almost 12 weeks
I was taking percocet on and off 5/325. I would say maybe 2-4 a week
I was taking the fironal. I started off taking it 3 times a day then tapered down to 1 or 2 a day. I stopped the fironol quite some time ago.
I am taking 15 mgs of imovane a night.


I am starting the lyrica again tomorrow hoping that I didn't have the same side affects that I was having. I couldn't tell which medication was doing it but completely assumed it was either the tramadol or lyrica, or both. She said I shouldn't have been put on both at the same time. I see her again next week.

Again I hope I have answered your questions. I am having a very weird brain right now. It has taken everything for me not to take the valium out of desperateness due to the side effects. Thank you so much, spinal soldier. You're awesome and very attentive...I like that :D
Posted 11/27/2010 1:23 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Breezy
So sorry that you are having a hard time with your meds and withdrawal. I know that withdrawal is not fun at all as i have been there too. I have always known Valium to be for acute problems and not for chronic. I took Ativan to help me with my shakes and jitters but maybe Nick can comment on that. When I took Lyrica I felt really spaced and that i was walking two feet off the floor. I did not stay on that as I was still trying to work at the time. Nick seems to know his pharmacy stuff well. Is this what you are studying Nick? You have excellent knowledge for sure.

Breezy where do you live? You are in Alberta? I lived in Edmonton for seven years but am now in Ontario.

I sure hope you start feeling better hon. Big hugs to you and keep us updated ok.
Posted 11/27/2010 11:52 PM (GMT 0)
HI Suzane :) I live in Alberta and it has been pretty nice after a long cold snap.

The feelings that you describe about the lyrica is how I was feeling. Im hoping I don't feel that way again. Today has been a really good day for me and I am reluctant to take it tonight, but I will. Ugh, I just hate being dependent on stuff. Whenever I feel "ok", I don't want to take anything but I know the consequences of not taking it.

Valium is a very hard drug to come off of! I fought so hard not to take it yesterday because of my withdrawal symptoms. I succeeded though, so Im patting myself on the back just a little.

I cannot express my sincere appreciation for all the replies! It really makes what Im going through a lot easier.

Im hoping to talk to my doctor on Thursday about her comment of "something is wrong with my shoulder." I almost need to record our conversations to understand and explain better :S
Posted Today 4:36 PM (GMT 0)
What's helped me:
1) lots of fluids (3L water/day)
2) exercise however I can (considering pain, sometimes that's just lying on back & moving arms & legs -- but when I can take it I go walking or short jog)
3) sleep when I can
4) yoga/prayer/meditation
5) chamomile tea
6) comfort foods
7) anything at all that will distract me -- friends, games, hobbies, etc.

Hope you feel better soon. One week should have you starting to feel better. The Lyrica might be too low a dose for you to see any benefit. After the withdrawal symptoms start to subside, maybe your doc will up the Lyrica a bit. If by Thursday you're still having trouble sleeping without the Valium, maybe see if your doc will up your Lyrica. One of it's side effects is sleepiness -- a plus if you take it at bedtime.

Hang in there! It does get better. :)
Posted Today 5:54 PM (GMT 0)
I apologize about the imovane, i was thinking about the wrong country. imovane is zopicolone which we cannot have in the US. for some reason the FDA has not given approval because it is just like ambien (zolpidem), lunesta (eszopiclone), and sonata (zaleplon). sleep medications are a billion dollar buisness so it,s all about the brandname. zopicolone is potent in it's tranquilizing effects kind of like valium with a much shorter halflife. the combonation of medications you have been put on: fioranol, valium, and imovane after a while can "flare" your brain and nerves. smoothy drugs that get in your system at the level you need can get a hold of pain signals on a consistant basis. don't feel intimidated by your doctors, where else are you supposed to go? we have legitimate bad pain. good luck with the lyrica.
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