If you've had ACDF surgery, would you help me with some advice?

Thanks, White Beard! I guess I probably have a subconscious fear of dependency when it comes to narcotics but, on the other hand, I realize that what those guys did to my neck is not a paper cut. I know I need to use some common sense. I'm going to try alternating the medications as you suggested and perhaps I can hone things down to a reaction to a specific one that is wiring me.

I haven't tried a CD but I use a whitenoise app (cleverly enough called Whitenoise) on my iPhone and it runs in the background all night. I used a steady "rain". But I may have become so used to it that it no longer has a soothing effect. I may need to mix it up a bit.

Speaking of noise though, here's a conundrum. Have you ever Googled "people who hear the Hum"? No, I don't believe the government is trying to kill me, but there's this "Hum" and it's almost impossible to describe. Some people commit suicide over it. I've been hearing the hum 24 hours a day (and I do mean every hour of every day, no matter when or where, since 2006). It has never stopped one moment, not even for a second, since 2006. Now, I do have this annoying little high-pitched tinnitus in my right ear that most people have; the kind you can sort of ignore. But this was always from my left side. It was a low, menacing, throbbing droning sound that seemed to have a life of its own. (I'm actually going somewhere with this narrative). My plan was, when I see my ENT in March, to admit to him that I'm one of the "Hum" people and to beg him to help me. I've never told a doctor before because I figured they'd refer me to a shrink. White Beard…… it stopped for a few days, after my surgery. In fact, it's been gone completely until this evening. It's moved over to my "right" field and it's much more faint (it used to be deafening at times and I'd cry a lot because it was like "water torture"). And here's where I'm going with this. In 2006, I was in a head-on car crash. 45 to 0 (a huge truck didn't see me coming and turned left in front of me). It was akin to one of those "Dale Earnhardt" type things, in that my brain "shook". I was stupid for a while, couldn't remember most things, tried to type emails but didn't use vowels, only consonants, things like that. A neurologist said my pituitary gland had been shifted "to the left" and was swollen but that it should return to normal after a time. That's about when I began hearing the hum, that same year, anyway. They're saying this stenosis is "degenerative" but I wonder. I had the crash, have heard the hum ever since, it went away (for the most part) following the surgery and is faintly back again tonight but in my right field, instead of the left. Do you think there's a chance that this is not degenerative at all, that it was all caused from that crash? I ask because, if it is not degenerative, might that mean that I have a better chance of not having to repeat this surgery because of other disks eventually failing? (Only how would I ever know the answer to this question for sure? I guess I can't.)

That's me, rambling.

Grammy I have been thinking about what you wrote about hearing the "hum: in your ear. tinnitus can be caused by allot of different things, and can be extremely difficult to track down the cause, and then eliminate it. I have to take sulfasalazine for my ulcerative colitis and that medication if taken in high doses will cause that! I know when I have had a flare up of my colitis, that they increase my dosage of sulfasalazine, and just about immediately I get tinnitus! Because of that, even my normal daily dosage had to be lowered a bit to keep that from happening. So it could be one or more of your medications that is causing it, or maybe something entirely different. I would definitely be talking with your doctor about it and see if they can come up with a solution!

As for you your disc failing, that is so hard to say, as I mentioned one of my neurosurgeons told me that usually within ten years most people will have the disc above or below their initial fusion go bad. But every one is so different, heck I got nearly 25 years before it happened to me, and I do know of people that they never had a problem with others going bad. So I really don't think there is an answer to that. I will tell you though don't do the "what if" game in your mind, we all do it every now and then, and all it does is mess with our "minds" ! LOL

Please keep us informed of your progress, and I do hope you continue to post and be an active member of our CP family!

White Beard

Grammy that is a very good question, on whether they used two plates or one big one to cover both fused areas. You might want to ask your surgeon when you see him next time, or if you get to see the x-rays they do of your fusion. Usually they do an x-ray just before your follow-up appointment, so the surgeon can check everything. I must say my second fusion with the donor cadaver bone and hardware was much better than the first one I had. Back in 1985 the ACDF was a new procedure, and they took the bone graft from the top of my pelvis, and they didn't use any type of hardware to stabilize it. I had to wear my soft collar for many many months 24 hours a day! I was restricted from walking outside on the snow and ice for fear I would slip and fall. ( I was stationed up near Fairbanks Alaska at that time) That ACDF was so much more difficult than the one I had in 2009. But I also had allot more damage done, in 1985 as the disc was ruptured into multiple fragments floating in my spinal canal. So the surgery was more difficult too!

Anyway just follow your doctors orders to the Tee and don't over due anything and hopefully everything will heal up properly and you will get your voice back soon.

White Beard

Hey IAG, please come here any time you want. The door is always open to you. From what I have seen in various kinds of scars most of them do look better & better as more time goes by. Some will even fade away to where they are not all that noticeable. I have had multiple surgeries with some really long scars and as more time went by the better they looked. The only one that still to this day looks bad is on my stomach where a pain pump was implanted. The ignorant surgeon if you can call him that, made very long tight stitches. They were so tight the nurse had a very difficult time taking them out. That scar is hideous looking. My 2nd surgery when that pump had to be replaced they used staples & those left a pretty mean looking scar but it too started looking better with more time. So, do not get discouraged, I bet this gets better with time. A 27 day old scar is still pretty young.

Take care.....

straydog It's encouraging to know that this might not be permanent. Right now, it looks as if there's an earthworm sitting on my throat (apologies if that's a bit gross). Thursday will be my first post-op visit and I'm hoping the surgeon will soon let me try putting Mederma or cocoa butter or something on it. The scar on your stomach makes me think of what people mean when they say a surgeon "butchered" them. I'm so sorry that happened to you. He sounds like a hack.

screaming eagle I wish there was a wind farm around here. We're out in the woods with nothing but coyotes and bobcats and crows as big as chickens. The trees are far too dense for anything like that. I did see clips on the "YT" site (I'm not sure if we can actually mention that site here) of a loud hum that groups of people could not only hear but record. It's not quite that sound; it's more like a low drone of a single engine plane and no one around me can hear it. They're too kind to suggest that I'm crazy but they say, almost apologetically, that they can't hear anything. The odd thing is that for a blessed brief couple of weeks after this ACDF surgery, it went away, for the first time in 8 years. But I've noticed that past few evenings that it's trying to come back, even if more faintly than before. I just can't understand why it went away for a while.

I'm feeling a bit down this morning. I'd mentioned at the beginning of this thread that I ripped the labrium (at least it's speculated that I did) in my right shoulder, trying to favor my left side. That has grown progressively worse and I will not be able to have any more MRIs or PT for at least 4-5 more weeks. That's an entirely different doctor, an Ortho, and it seems he doesn't want to tread over the Neuro's ground. I guess I can understand that, but I can't keep waking up at 3:00 in the morning with the pain in that shoulder and just lying there until I finally give up at daylight and drag myself out of bed. I've become too weary to function and, as everyone here knows, pain produces depression. If I mention this to my Neuro this Thursday, he'll shake his head and smile and say what he's said before: "You'll have to tell So-And-So about that; I don't know a thing about it. That's Ortho." But I guess he'll at least let me tell him that on Sunday, my husband had to slam on the brakes to avoid a car that was plowing right for us and I had a bit of whiplash, as a result.

Don't mind me; I'm just feeling sorry for myself, this morning.

Hi, Alcie; yes, I remember reading your post and, seriously, it hurt just reading it! I told my husband what had happened to you and he visibly winced and said, "Don't tell me anymore!"

I just started with a PCP last week, but it was really just a brief interview and some note-taking. I guess everyone's required to have a PCP now, and he's just shuffling us through. He was nice enough, just sort of distracted the entire time. I mentioned that I began hearing the loud hum following a head-on car crash in 2006 (my pituitary gland was shifted to the left and swollen) and he just nodded and kept writing. This is what happens when your doctors are suddenly younger than you. They have places to go, things to do, people to see. Not like the old family doctor I grew up with who would come to our house in the middle of the night, sit me up on the kitchen table and treat me for asthma attacks. Remember DOCTORS?



My Ortho wants me to do a stretch exercise called the Sleeper Stretch for torn shoulder muscles. He told me to YT a video of it. I found several and everyone of them different but I did try. And I did cry, ha! He says that's about all we can do until my surgeon clears me for PT and that another MRI is out of the question for a while. Because I need to be alert during the day to drive to appointments or keep my grandbaby, I only take the Soma at night, so I guess my muscles aren't really relaxing as much as they should. The Dilaudid wires me so I don't take it but the only OTC pain relief I'm allowed is Tylenol. There's just so much liver disease in my family that I'm afraid to take it. My mother and her brother both died with liver disease and now two of my sisters have been diagnosed with it. I pick up the Tylenol bottle during the day but then I just put it back down. Probably, having no pain relief during the day is what's keeping me up at night, then, I guess?

IAG, once the dr gives the ok to put something on the scar, I have been pretty successful using plain old vitamin E on scars. I just take a needle & make a hole in the capsule & squeeze it out onto the scar & rub it in. You may want to give it a try, much cheaper than the scar stuff sold in drug stores. Like Alcie said most of those scars on the front of the throat heal so well that you can't hardly see them, but again it just takes time.

Sorry to read you are having a time with your shoulder. I once had impingement in the right shoulder. Boy, I thought I was going to lose my mind over that one. I lost use of my right hand & arm which I am right dominant. I could not hold anything in my hand, hair dryer, curling iron, nothing. At the time I was driving a stick shift Jeep, I could not shift the gears so we had to find me an automatic to drive.

IAG, your comments here & posts are really helpful to others that may need the same surgery that you had or perhaps someone that has just had it. So, please know your input is very helpful to others.

I hope you get to feeling better soon.

I may be a bit lost here, so I ask in advance,-- please bear with me. I've been mired down in my own muck, (my regular muck, and new muck, so I've been a mucking mess), that I haven't even been on HW as much as I usually am. So, perhaps I missed something along the way?

I am currently going through something that sounds all too similar to what Susie has described with her right shoulder, (and I'm R-arm dominant too), and I'm in PT for it. The pain, weakness, strange sensations, inability to do even simple things with that arm,...it's surreal.

I mention it because I've been in PT for this, for these symptoms, without so much as an XRay,-- just an examination and assessment, then referral. I present with symptoms of impingement, as well as, potentially, a few other things. But I'm still faithfully following my PT.

He has me doing the Sleeper Stretch. The difference between me really feeling it around my joint can be as little as my being off by 1/2 inch in the placement of my elbow. It's very effective, and yep, painful as all get out.

As for stretching it, from what I understand, at this point in time you don't have a definitive dx stating anything is torn, right? So you're still in the gray, like I am?

When I had my massage therapy appointment yesterday, the topic of scars, and scar tissue came up. She mentioned the same thing Susie did, which is to use a pin to pop a tiny hole in a capsule of Vitamin E, and thoroughly rub it into and around the scar. (Don't just "apply" it on top of the scar). From what I gathered is one way these treatments work is by doing them daily (a few times every day) keeping the scarred skin supple and moist.

She also said the reason you use a pin to prick a hole in the capsule is because you don't use very much of the oil, and the tiny hole made by the pin temporarily "re-seals" itself so air doesn't get in. If you just rip it open, you're exposing more of the healing oil to air. She was also adamant about not buying those bottles of Vitamin E oil....to use the capsules instead.

Let us know how you make out, okay?

((hugs))


M.


REASON FOR EDIT: When doing the sleeper stretch, the whole point is you're only using 2 fingers on the hand of the "good arm" to very gently rest on the wrist/forearm of the "bad arm." Your bad arm is passive, totally relaxed, it's vital you do not try and "assist" in the stretch. The other extremely important thing about the Sleeper Stretch is that you are absolutely, positively and totally NOT trying to "make" the bad arm fold down or "force" it down!! IMPORTANT!! It is an extremely gentle and passive exercise, you're applying the teensiest bit of pressure, just barely enough to feel a gentle stretch in the shoulder capsule. If it's causing you downright pain, you are doing it incorrectly! Yes, in that case, sure, it could be dangerous on top of being painful!! Great big emphasis: Those fingers of your good hand are simply guiding and keeping you from flexing or extending your wrist,.....simply gently guiding a slight internal rotation. This exercise should only feel like a mild tension. If you feel like you're going to crank your arm off, bring it up to your PT or ask the doc who told you to do them, and ask HIM to demonstrate. You will feel very mild discomfort, but you should not feel sharp pains,----- not if done correctly.

When you have a torn muscle or labrum tear it is usually too painful to lie on that shoulder.

My ortho doc recently gave me a steroid shot OUT OF the capsule - which he says he does for arthritis. It helped a lot. It did not cure the pain from impingement, for which he said he can do a scope and clean out the torn bits.

Previously the ortho has given me 3 steroid shots inside the capsule, which did nothing.

I also still have pain in both shoulders which is coming from my neck (major surgery). A couple of facet joint (in neck vertebra) injections has helped some, but the pain at the top of the humerus and edge of the scapula remains. I don't get to go back for about 6 weeks because we can't have too much steroid or it softens the cartilage and bone.

IAG, why not put a call in to the surgeons nurse instead of waiting till March to ask about taking some Ibuprofen. Just explain what the discharge papers say & then what he told you yesterday. Just tell her you are a little confused about it all.

I remembered after posting yesterday that my first post-op was today, so I waited to see my surgeon, rather than call. He chided me a little because I had a couple of "what were you thinking" moments the past couple of weeks: I picked up my grandbaby. I didn't mean to; it was just instinct. She's been afraid of me since the surgery, which made me cry when I was alone because she's always been my special buddy and my shadow. But now I talk funny and have a "thing" on my neck and she has avoided me. So recently, I guess she worked through it because instead of shying away, she actually ran to me and, without thinking, I scooped her up. 40 pounds. He wasn't happy and said that I'm going to still be on 5-pound restriction for another 6 weeks. He must not have any grandchildren.



He repeated that I can have an occasional dose of Advil, as long as I don't overdo it, so... (I still think I'll wait on that; I really want this fusion to succeed.) He did say the scar is coming along nicely and that I can now use vitamin E, etc., if I want, so yay! I took a list of questions but forgot to put this one on it, so I wondered if you guys know? Can I use a heating pad across the back of my neck and shoulders this soon after ACDF? I do have cold packs but I've always found heat more comforting. Is it too soon? He said that this band of pain is normal and will probably still be there when I see him in 6 weeks. He also said my voice will probably still be messed up then. He seems to talk about my voice a lot and he frowns when he does it. It's not like I'm going to sue him; I knew the risks but the pain made me sign the papers. But this is me, rambling. Back to the question: heating pad, yes? No? Thanks!

I've been using mostly heat (microwaved cloth bag of dry hominy) since I got out of the hospital. What is this about Aleve etc? Is it a no blood thinners thing? I am still on percocet 12 weeks after surgery and have ridiculous spasms in my shoulders that even valium is not affecting. Just started PT and am currently getting worse. I fee like they blew out c7-t1 doing my surgery. 3 levels here, but I'm lying in bed considering upping my percocets to make it down to pt today. This surgery really does suck.

I had not heard that nsaids inhibited fusion, only nicotine. Isn't the APAP in percocet considered an nsaid? Hmmm. I only received a warning about blood thinners like aspirin which would increase the possibility of excessive bleeding.

I agree with your statements and add that in both cases they know what they know when the remember it. . .and communicate that information even less frequently. I take a certain level of comfort knowing that at least with the coming age of robotic doctors we should all get consistent care.

Answering my own question
APAP is Not an NSAID

Post Edited (therabidweasel) : 2/28/2014 6:23:19 AM (GMT-7)