8 week post op 3 level (4 vertebrae) ACDF w/ plating&allograft

Abilene,

Thanks for the reply, I noticed that too recently, that our surgeries were close together. I saw the hypnotherapist dude today and we actually began work on getting my subconscious to let go of the pain. I doubled my fentanyl and I am getting less relief than before. So, I dont know what is going on, but the hypnosis/EMDR has thus far been far more effective. I'll definitely be posting in here for awhile it seems. I hope you stick around even after you are 100%. Its feels great to read your stories, well on one hand, not that I'd wish ill on you, just better for me. Still, I hope you continue to get better and forget you even had the stupid surgery. They need a different word than "surgery" for this, it's a life/career/family destroyer.

All that said, I dont see how your surgery with one more vertebra level was only 2 hours and mine was a little over six. . .I knew posterior was faster, but 3 times with one more level!?

Steve

I had to look up corpectomy as I was not familiar with the name. No, I definitely didn't have that as the vertebral bodies are definitely there in both my MRI and Xrays. That said, I have a couple of places on the MRI where you can see something poking into the canal and deforming the thecal sac. The surgeon said it was just the severed posterior longitudinal ligament. . .which his PA told me would not be severed in my case. Maybe more knowledgeable folk can explain to me how that ligament can be so stiff as to deform the sac? I've never held those tissues in my hands so I don't really know their consistency.

Do you happen to know if it takes as long to get on it temporarily as it does permanently? I would have to destroy my savings to pay just my house payment for the next two years. We have a modest place, we didn't go buy a starter castle, but New England is pretty pricey.

I'm post op 6 weeks C 3-7 ACDF… I am in pain constantly still. I fell on 7/17/14 down a 2 inch step. 3 months later I showed nerve damage involvement.MRI should serous anterior flattening which explained my sharp stabbing pain all over my body. I went back to work at 4 weeks in a hard collar with restrictions that my computer has to be at eye level, no lifting over 10 lbs…4 wks was way too early… week 5 last wk was horrible. I was exhausted and in constant shoulder/neck/back pain. This week was better Mon and Tues but again today I'm wore out. My job is computer based so I get up and walk around every 2 hr. The pain in my upper mid back and shoulders is relentless. I hear/feel popping and grinding when I shrug my shoulders. The pain comes whether I move or not…. sharp and spasmodic. Has anyone else had this post op and how long does it last? Is it a screw insertion site that hurts so bad?

Barianswer, Welcome
You could just copy and paste what you wrote in a new post by clicking on Post New Topic, left side near the top of this page. Then several of us who have experienced this surgery will respond. Taller Now and therabidweasle have lots of knowledge and will be able to answer your questions. I had the same levels, posterior surgery, and am just over a year post-op. As you know going to work at 4 weeks was way too early. I'd say 4 months might also be too early. Get your new post started and we will have a conversation.

Hi All, apologies for the delay, it has been a busy many few months.

Current meds are 25ug/hr Fentanyl every 2 days, 2400mg/day neurontin, and 12mg Diazapam in moderation to help keep efficacy. 5mg Percocets for long days. Reservoir style Fent patches were an unusable roller-coaster rides of pain for me while the matrix (flat) patches seem much more useful and consistent.

After a longish and intense roller-coaster ride of a job search I have started a new job that is mandatory 60+ hours per week with a long commute. I hesitated accepting for a long time because I do not know if I can handle that amount of work. I am barely hacking it. I sleep 36 hours per weekend and do little else. I'm exhausted. Pain level feels like it is still slowly reducing or I am gaining tolerance again, provided I watch my posture closely and just plain refuse to do certain tasks. Some days though, that Fentanyl patch feels like a Flintstone's vitamin and I hurt like crazy for 2 days straight.

Thoughts of suicide are still kicking around and I am still seeing my therapist once a week. For the first time in my life I am certain that I am depressed. There is precious little that I care anything about at all. It's not like me but it makes the job easier actually. Life like this is sure not real fun, but I hope it will improve when fishing starts again.

I have discovered a new tool that is going in the useful items thread called a "back body buddy." It's $38 from Amazon and 2 minutes with it is more effective than my wife digging here elbow into my shoulder or neck for 10. It's easier on her too and she uses it herself.

Barianswer, I dont have time to look for your threads right now, but your description seems right and as Abilene indicated it would be atypical for it to improve any time soon. What exactly causes the pain. . .boy if anyone had an answer to that. I still get a lot of neck gristle. . .it must be from the joints that can still move, even though it sounds like it is from the fusion area. Buckle in for the long-haul and best of luck to you.

I just made another post, but I have heard at the two year mark one should be better and in a new normal state that will include life time pain. But at two years one has an idea of what that will be since everyone is different and has different conditions. This has come from people who I have met who had acdf and doctors. It seems that some are lucky to have low pain esp. with 1-2 levels but most with 3+ levels live with issues especially if they are active. I sure hope it gets better since it is exhausting to have so much pain ( and for me in many places). I feel like my boss doesn't understand nor do coworkers and that adds to my stress. I wish you all low pain days, but want newbies to know this is a long recovery so be patient.

TN, the subtleties of what you have written speak volumes to me. I feel like you and I must feel quite similar. It is odd that we even have similar jobs. I am truly sorry that you can understand me so. RE the job, I have so checked out. I now work for the most brutally cut-throat organization in my experience and for the wealthiest person I have ever personally encountered. . .and I have SO checked out. I mean, I do my work and I am good at what I do and so rare that I think I am allowed more leeway than most. But I'm less diplomatic than ever (and if you only knew), suffer no idiots, and stupidly poke bears. I'm not generally a jerk, and I have asked, but I don't take any crap at all. . .which is not a good mix if you think about what I wrote about the job. Checking out of work has helped me a lot though.

Oh hey, this is funny work stuff! I must take my neurontin on a tight schedule and I always end up in a meeting when the alarm goes off. It's happened in interviews, during presentations, you name it. I am invariably asked, awkwardly, about the pill. I have decided to fight awkward with really awkward and now just deadpan "Sorry, I've got to go take this or my voice is going to start cracking and my edit are gonna grow back." I have a deep voice and a large beard. My therapist was laughing over that one. Reactions in the conference room have been mixed. I love it. Seems weird for folks to ask directly about your meds. One coworker I had never met before passed me in a hallway and said "DANG!(corrected by the forum) What's that scar from?" I've been saying that I lost a "Beat-it style knife fight," referring to the Michael Jackson video, but it's not as jolting of an explanation as I would like.

Abilene, thank you as always for the encouragement and your experience. I am so glad you are doing as well as you are. I sure would not wish my fate on anyone.

So the real reason I am up tonight, aside from the every-other-night fentanyl induced insomnia that I have developed into an effective time for a sort of Socratic consideration of a topic du jour, is to disclose some rather grim but potentially useful information related to my pain perception. BTW, I try to stay still and not get up and on here during the non-sleep to try and eek out some form of rest. I work 12 hour days minimum these days. Anyhoo, I meant to put it in here last time, but am really conflicted about writing it down: Despite loving my family and not wanting them to have to live without me, I know I am a sizable burden and have a life-altering amount of life insurance. . .locked that in after my wreck. I know it's no compensation for such a swell soul as me, but lets say it would be far from the worst possible alternative. I also do not want to leave my wife for selfish reasons; I love her more now than ever and more so each second it seems. . .yet, I feel as she ages it may be harder for her to find a replacement, which places some time pressure on my choice. I am pretty sure most women, including my wife, would not consider the situation in this way. But for my person I have old-fashioned gender identity and therefore want to make sure my wife is secure. . . .and I know financial security is only a component of security, but I have few other such components at my disposal.

Hey guys, I said it was grim. BUT, the good news is that since the trigger points, I'm now a few days beyond the second set. That is since the first set of injections, the second are just beginning to take effect too. That's a lot of progress! Maybe it's sad, but it's finally moving in the right direction. Maybe I have hit bottom? I hope so, and I kinda mean the word "hope."

On the trigger points, I saw this time that he used 10cc divided into 4 injections in places I identified on my back and neck. The nurse said it was an unusual amount, so I mention it FYI. I also asked him to go as deep as he possibly could.



I am sorry that you are struggling as you are but I would encourage you to talk to your therapist about the feeling you have going to. Your wife & children need you for much than just monetary value. Please review the rules here at Healing Well. As a result of the rules a lot of your post I have edited. Yes, many of us have had these very thoughts before, it just seems to be the nature of the beast. You are a very smart man, try to get some help you will not regret it. Take care.

Post Edited By Moderator (straydog) : 5/6/2015 11:57:10 AM (GMT-6)

Er, hmm. Ever have a post interpreted entirely differently than you intended? Happens to me reasonably often, which is a sign of something not too good about TRW I suppose. Firstly, straydog I am very sorry to have violated the forum rules. I also honestly did not believe that the term I used for, um, baby feeders, would be a bad one. Two apologies from me and I will review the rules again.

What I was trying to do, and I believe a rather large section was deleted entirely, was illustrate my thought process and the character of the pain I am experiencing this far out from the surgery. I thought it might be helpful for people to know the severity in a different way, how I am keeping track, and how it is evolving these last few months. Anyway, a big fail at that. I kept going back asynchronously and adding sentences, which probably made it read differently to you than to me. Dont worry about me guys. I am doing what I can, using all resources, and putting one foot in front of the other to get through each day. I thought the post ended pretty happy given that I am seeing results from the trigger point injections finally. A grim happy as stated, but still, better than anything since taking the collar off.

OK, again my apologies for violating the rules and potentially freaking some people out. I am not crying out for help, I am crying out ?as? help. Anyway, as always I hope it does help someone and I appreciate your time reading and responding.

Thanks again

Post Edited (therabidweasel) : 5/6/2015 5:30:14 PM (GMT-6)

Howdy Y'all.

It's been a while now and I actually have some time. I just finished up my stay at the truly awful job and am starting another one shortly. I think it will be better, it certainly doesn't have the brutal sweatshop culture reputation that the place before it did, but you never know til you know.

Anyway, the trigger points did help to some extent, but I have now added the most effective weapon to my pain fighting arsenal (post-surgery) yet. I've had over two months of weekly treatments now and i can say that I am backing further away from the ledge, which is definite progress. In particular, the ridiculous pain in my shoulder that even the trigger points failed to address is now gone on most days. I am still on 25mcg/hr fentanyl plus valium and 2400mg/day neurontin, nortryptylin, melatonin. Still have the every other night insomnia, which is why I am up right now, despite having very little sleep yesterday and another early wake-up time tomorrow.

OK, believe it or not the new tool is massage. This is my 3rd massage therapist after the surgery. Like the others she is a little freaked out by my injuries, but I just talk her through what I can endure, which is a very unusual amount of pressure that no one outside my family has ever tried. She still wont go as deep as my wife with all her body weight on an elbow in my c-spine parispinals, but her methods are more effective so I end up with nearly the same relief. This kind of pressure will break a massage table headrest, so I end up face down with chest on pillows and my forehead on a book. . .at home. But I'm hoping to get the therapist there soon.

The first key part, and the reason why the trigger points did not address the shoulder pain so well. . .was due to the fact it was referred pain, apparently from my serratus muscle. As soon as she started working that area the first time I could feel weird, indescribable feelings and the shoulder pain reduced greatly thereafter, From that point on, the entire shoulder girdle has been massaged (over several weeks) and the serratus just needs a 5 minute touch up or even just a roll on a foam roller. These are no ordinary massages either. I'm talking really deep massage where one session, now repeated twice, was 2.5 hours focused on my left shoulder. No one else has ever devoted the study this therapist has to the problem and no one has had the guts to apply this kind of pressure. . .but I am so much better off. I broke down in tears on the table last week. I have tipped this woman 20% plus a $50 bottle of wine on a couple of occasions and I realized that I had no way of thanking her in the same magnitude she has helped me. My eyes are welling now as I type this. I can add the hypnotic and EMDR tricks to the massage and speed things up or get some relief during my insomnia or bad days, but so far the massage rules all.

My case may be unusual because I was a (bad) extreme athlete and have suffered so many injuries. She made the comment the other day that I don't have a single muscle that isn't in spasm. She's also said that the amount of pressure that I need, in all of them, is very unusual. I have to be scheduled on "light" days because it is so much work for her. I realize that I am incredibly fortunate to have such a person and perhaps even moreso, can "afford" her and my job is flexible enough to do the schedule.

I'm hoping these new treatments and a less stressful job lead to a sustainable life. Unfortunately, the parispinals in my neck are the remaining massive pain center and we have yet to reduce their pain for long, but the removal of the shoulder pain has given the meds increased efficacy for that, or so I perceive. Perhaps some of the pain in there is referred, but they are in rock-hard spasm. That said, I am without a doubt worse than I was a year ago. The seas this year have been much calmer and all of my fishing has been done in a hard collar, and I still need an entire day of sleep + mega-massage to recover. Granted, these are long hard days on a rocking platform that are hard on healthy, if not hearty, folk. I didn't have to wear the collar nearly as much last year and the seas were incomparably rougher. THAT is a fact that I am trying to process and use to recalibrate my expectations for life and it sucks.

The pain doc is planning to ween me back of off fentanyl soon. I would really welcome a normal sleep schedule, but I am scared as heck as I have been enduring ever increasing pain over at the same dosage over the last 7 months. I'm only just getting a toehold on a tolerable level of pain. . .with great expense of time and treasure for massage. But I sure would like to sleep too. The pain doc is extremely reluctant to give me any more sedatives because with everything I am taking I shouldn't be awake at all anyway. She's always like, "let's wait another month." Oh, I've been seeing her for 9 years and she says that my neck is far looser than it has ever been. . .I didn't tell her I was getting the massages beforehand. I've also noticed that I have truly begun to think about a future. I'm less survival mode and thinking more about sustaining a life worth living. Definitely not the same life building fast cars and doing all my own home improvements, but not shopping for good deals on coffins either. If I keep up the massage I wont have nearly the money to retire with, but I might make it to retirement age.

HEY! One other good thing: I never had motion sickness until the last 9 or so years before my surgery. Not being able to ride roller coasters went first, then I started getting sick on boats, and it got so bad that I couldn't even ride in the front passengers seat of a car without dramamine. This year, I can crawl down into the hold of the boat and get shaken around like a snow globe, smoke a cigar, and then maybe eat a piece of bait on a bet without getting nauseous.

As I tend to say in these posts I hope this blog sort of thing and my list of helpful items is useful to someone out there in setting expectations and timelines for "recovery." Well, for anything but stealing my idnetity I guess. I think my ACDF result is somewhat on the bad side because I waited so long and my body was generally torn up aside from the neck. Somewhere in this thread is the quote that there are some things worse than death. Please let your non-helmet/leathers/boots/gloves wearing motorcycle or other adrenaline junkie-children or friends know this is very true and that I am living it. . .and I was wearing all that gear in a single vehicle accident. Heck, I hardly even have any side effects from my drugs if you think about it, I dont even have to take fiber taking hard opiates. But at the same time, there are a lot of folks on here worse than me that got there via actions much smarter than mine. . .so I consider myself a lucky one. . .and again, I went down in full protective gear on a deserted road with no other vehicles.

Sorry for the rambling. Thank you for reading and thank you all for the comments along the way and for your own stories. They have helped me get to where I am.

Have you tried DRY NEEDLING? Roccky mentioned to Countrydad that it helps her, so I thought of you. I read one article about it that calls it the most painful thing I ever loved.

Howdy all. This is just past the 2 year mark for my surgery now. Time flies when you are on hard drugs. So, I am still getting a 2hr hardcore neck massage each week and it seems to be holding me steady. I would not say that I am improving, but I am in a tolerable state pain-wise. I have been trending downward for at least 6 months now. I generally need to work one day a week from home. I'm nauseous as I type this, have been all day, and thats typical. Mostly I have just had extremely low and slowly lessening energy. I feel like I am winding down. Over a year now of sleeping, at best, every other night. It's been driving me mad. PM still wont give me any sleep meds, or anything sedating, even just for every other night. So I went the MM route, which works about half the time. I'll say flat out that it violates my contract, but someone tell me what else I am supposed to do. So at least I am getting three out of 4 nights of sleep. Still, I am winding down.

When I say my energy is low, I mean I am dragging myself out of bed puffing on a nicotine vaporizer each morning and I dont use nicotine otherwise. . .it takes 30 minutes minimum to summon the will and consciousness to get out of bed and go on. It's like this even when I dont sleep, it's very odd. I know by Wednesday how crappy my crap week is going to be by how long it takes me to drag out. More than an hour means bad crap week. Thursday and Friday. . .suck. Saturday, I generally "sleep" until at least 5. . .that's PM. Mostly I get up around 7pm, eat breakfast/lunch/dinner, put on my patch like it was morning, stare into the middle distance for an hour or so and then "sleep" on until at least noon, but more typically 5pm, on Sunday. I've slept through an awful lot of life here lately and it's definitely harming my relationships. My wife understands that I need sleep, but this is really starting to bother her. It really bothers me, but I just can't do any better

Several weeks ago now I was driving home and I was about to exit onto another highway and the next thing I know I was waking up, driving mind you, a couple of miles away on a third highway. Scared me pretty bad. Within a week of that incident, I woke up on the rumble strip in HEAVY traffic on my drive in to work, twice. I had been contemplating coming off Fentanyl, as I feel like the efficacy is nearly gone and I desperately need sleep anyway, but the second rumble strip awakening compelled me to call the PM and ask to be dropped down to 12mcg with a goal of getting off ASAP. I had to hand in what was left of my 25mcg patchs, hey, NOT a problem except it was hard to orchestrate. We had to make sure that the pharmacy would have the 12mcg patches in stock before making the swap. No problem handing in the extras though, I dont even want that stuff in my safe.

I recently was traveling oveseas and I keep my narcs on me to prevent theft if my room doesn't have a safe, but due to terrible travel agents and bad timing I ended up losing my room and, in the process, leaving my jacket with a few patches, percocets, and valium in my coat pocket at the hotel "bar." Many miles away and a few really crappy hours later, I realized the error. This little bar just happened to be filled with young, partying German stewards and stewardesses when I left. I drove like a madman once I realized that my coat had all that stuff in it, thinking that this could make international headlines. Luckily, my surliness had placed me in a little used portion of the bar while I contemplated what type of hunting season should be allowed on travel agents over a gin an tonic earlier. My coat was right where I left it. . .a little hidden. All the drugs were in it and I motored back to the place I ended up not sleeping anyway. OK, point is, I dont want any extra fentanyl in my possession. . .and you should be able to hunt travel agents with a bag limit of one, either sex, any weapon, between the months of September and November. I'm thinking I might use spears, but I don't know what I'll do with the meat. Maybe make dog food? Comments?

OK, so I've now been on 12mcg for 2 weeks. I didn't notice much of a jump in pain, but boy is there a lot of neurological activity. I perceive a lot more than ever, but it's slowly lessening and probably just my body getting used to the increased feeling. I can also really feel weird stuff when I stretch. I plan to just take the patch off altogether and go through the withdrawals over Christmas. Hey, maybe I'll have a happy New Year. I also stopped taking Valium and nortryptylin already but remain at 2400mg/day Neurontin. I have noticed that this week has been a little better energy wise. I've gotten some sleep on patch nights a few times, still very lightly MM assisted. Even Thurs/Fri have been a little better this week. Last Saturday, 1 week on the lower dose I actually got out of bed at 3pm and went to see my friends. It was easily my best day in 6 months. Sunday I crashed hard, slept til 7pm like it was a Saturday.

Life wise, I really cannot do much beyond work and driving to/from work. My job is a pure desk job now. I need to rest my neck and I am definitely in pain, but I can deal with it. Now, if I were living alone and my wife was not awesome, it would be a different story. I definitely require a lot of help. I don't know if I can deal with this without some drugs, except my savior neurontin of course, but I'm going to find out. I'm psyching myself up for the withdrawals and I'm kinda hopeful. I really hope it is what has been dragging me down, because if it isn't I am screwed. Screwed, screwed. I have lost at least 10lbs in the last 6 months. I dont feel like eating at all. Most of the time I am too nauseous anyway. I eat a protein bar and a handful of pretzels most days. Even when I eat well I have no energy. . .nothing tastes good. I dont drink alcohol anymore at all. I have roasted coffee nearly every weekday for the last decade. It is pretty much a ritual, but lately I have stopped doing that altogether. These things and the whole sleeping when I oughtn't, and the weight loss, really kinda worry me. I also have drank around three liters of water a day using the water bottle in my useful items post for the last 10+ years, until these last few months. I dont know what is going on, but something is changing with my body. I sometimes wonder if my kidneys are shutting down. They dont hurt, but I'm not peeing as much. I guess that happens if you dont drink as much. So again, I hope that all of this will rectify itself when I get off of the Fent.

Yeah, so a lot of bittersweet life for me. These last two years have been the worst of my life in some ways. But I have learned a lot about myself, a different way of living, life on unemployment, the power of my mind, of hypnosis, of massage. I am a different person, I think differently and am a bit less rabid. All of the job changes have landed me in a somewhat mellower role with a significant bump in pay from where I was right before surgery. My neck is definitely better for the surgery, but boy it is nowhere close to what it was before I couldn't hold my head up. I guess that is something I want to convey to folks.

I do not recommend having this surgery until you are pretty severely crippled. Because, at least if you are like me, you are going to exit the surgery significantly crippled. . .seriously folks, this is a life ruiner. Dont do it if you are JUST trying to reduce pain. I recommend it only if you are at significant risk of cord damage, in immense pain, AND have functionality that is so reduced you are incapable of all but basic hygiene. You will not end up "better" unless that is your starting point. . .if you are like me. To be clear I am talking about 3+ levels (that's 4 vertebrae or more as described in the title). I know, pain will push you to do anything to make it stop, but you need to know the reality of what this operation does to you. My surgery was textbook perfect. In my opinion, as a scientist, it was probably worthy of a research paper. Perhaps it even was. I haven't checked. The point is, even if it eliminated the pain, I at least, am very significantly impaired.

and yet, I have some hope, because that's about my only option at this point. Something is definitely going to change, I just hope it is for the better.

Hi there and Happy 2016 to you! It's great to hear a report that is 'not mostly bad news'. So glad you finally got there. I keep thinking about your wife and how she feels to give you a massage then not be able to wake you up...it must have taken some great strength on her part to do that a second time and following.

I'm ready for a new pillow. A very flat pillow has been best for me until now but I'm not sleeping as well and think that change may be worth a trial. Soft and lofty sounds good.

My physical therapist gave me some very good massages and is the only one I ever let touch my neck. He moved to a different area of physical therapy now, so I probably will not trust anyone else. I'm still doing well, not greatly hindered by the stiffness of my neck and not much pain unless I really over do it. That usually happens working in the kitchen. Still all I have to do is sit in the recliner a few minutes and add ice if it's really bad. I don't take anything for pain.

I certainly agree this recovery is a very long road and there is some hope!! Thanks for checking in!