Severed Ulnar Nerve!!!

SeaShell

That is true sometimes there are miracles and sometimes there is nothing so i am trying to find out which am i on? as i have contacted two different people who have had the Same operation as myself and both of those people had cut ulnar nerves one at the elbow the other in the shoulder but what is important is both have said they have felt something form their nerve transfers in the first few months. Now i am almost 7 month's post op and i have felt nothing?? i know the Transfer has been done correctly as the 3T MRI has picked up the Anastomoses is intact which means the connection.

Now both the other victims are around 10 years younger then me so age is on their side but why i haven't felt anything from my nerve transfer is a mystery?

I do remember you mentioning that it's only a small charge to keep the hand motor endplates alive but how do i know even that has taken place? i can't and both these two other people have said yes their hands were so weak but have improved from the nerve transfer but i have had nothing.

Is it possible that the AIN Nerve end to side doesn't always work? even though my Surgeon is supposed to be very experienced as he worked at the Kentucky Hand Surgery Unit in the US before but i still don't trust him and sadly i can't even get a another surgeon to open up my forearm as the latest MRI shows the connection is made.

I don't want to have a tendon transfer and be one of those patients that sadly oh sorry you didn't recover. This is what makes me think Dark Thoughts

Hi Pitmom

I hope your right as I pray things will improve soon.
Ive tried some mental health but it hasn't worked. Basically because my passion and a crucial function is missing that is the cause of my depression.

This is the only place and a one other site I can communicate.
Tommorow is my First Appointment with my New Neurologist, he is a Nerve Trauma specialist.

I think he will order a diffusion Tensor Tractography scan for me.
Does anyone know what diffusion Tensor is?

Hi Straydog

So this Test known as a Diffusion Tensor Tractography is basically a type of MRI but it can assess the nerve regeneration and degeneration so basically it can show how far your axons have grown and if they are all growing its a very special test that is crucial to me.
So this is Ordered by my new Neurologist who is a nerve Trauma specialist this is the type of Neurologist that I need so I've dropped my other Neurologists.

That was a conversation that my first hand surgeon was having with me saying tell the sports Dr not to do Hydrodissection as I was trying to say to the hand surgeon you call the sports Dr not me pass the message.

The new Neurologist spent 1 hour with me and needed more time so he asked if l could bring every scan I had to him and he took correspondence of the other Drs that have been involved with me.

After the Diffusion tractography which is Tommorow he wants to do an Ultrasound of all my nerves in my arm neck Down to my hand to see what is going on and he is doing SSI tests I think it's called somatsensory evoked potentials.


Basically this Neurologist is not happy with the scar tissue and is not happy about the nerve transfer, he said it should have done something by now even though there is evidence to say that the nerve connection is alright he is not satisfied as I have had no progress.


Now I know SeaShell mentioned that all its going to do is keep some charge but I said this to the Neurologist and he said even some charge should have some change by now so he is determined to get to the bottom of what is going on in my arm as he is also aware of my mental health suffering and agreed that it's caused by this.

Hi SeaShell this Neurologist I'm seeing is the one I should have seen a long while ago and he is determined to see what's going on. He has not yet admitted the first hand surgeon has done the nerve transfers incorrectly but is questioning why I haven't had change and disagrees with my hand surgeon saying I'm not going to see any change until native axons reach my hand because there would have been something by now.

The second hsnd surgeon who I see but hadn't operated on me is also wondering why it hasn't worked he has raised that it may have been done incorrectly but it's unlikely as the two of the hand surgeons are good friend's and teach in Vietnam on how to be hsnd surgeons so their experiences are high and they are also the only two hand surgeons in Sydney Australia that have done AIN nerve transfers so I give some credit but still 7months and nothing has discouraged me alot.

I had the Diffusion tractography scan so that will take about a week to show results but this will basically show how much of my nerve has recovered as it's a very delicate scan reserved mainly for research purposes.

Next week I have my hand surgeon on Friday who will be given a copy but first on Thursday will be seeing the new Neurologist again as he wants to do SSI on me and an ultrasound of the whole arm.

He also doesn't disagree about my thoughts as he said this whole ordeal must be horrible and the fact that I've had to run around like a dog for 7 months is disgusting.

SeaShell

What happend to you was at most a disgrace on the medical profession I don't know how those Drs in place at the time got away with it as that is one of the worst malpractices that I have heard.

I respect that you are able to March on and keep going as I am getting weaker by the weak.

Today I spoke to my second hand surgeon and I mentioned that ain charge and scar tissue holding it up all he could say to me was that he believes my hand surgeon who is his friend and did the original operation did the right thing.

I asked why haven't I had any nerve pain still to date? and all he could say Is that "you don't want nerve pain, that is good that you don't have it" then I asked isn't nerve pain generally a sign of nerve growth factor and all he said was "not necessarily the case and your case is special"

He is aware I'm seeing a nerve trauma Neurologist and is also aware of the Diffusion Tensor Tractography scan I have had. This Thursday will be the tests from the Neurologist that is the nerve trauma specialist as he will do the ultrasound of the whole arm and SSI or something similar and a nerve conduction test though I know the Nerve conduction studies will not have changed one bit.


I am in contact with a girl on instagrsm who had her ulnar nerve cut near the shoulder so she too had an AIN NERVE TRANSFER but she can't seem to move her wrist but yet she said she can feel her nerve transfer and another 2 who I searched on YouTube can't also move their wrists but have felt their nerve transfers.

What I don't understand is I have full range of motion and no pain but I can't feel my nerve transfer and don't have any improvement.

Why others do feel their nerve transfers work I don't so this constantly makes me think what has gone wrong why after 7 months still nothing??

I only have minimal improvement and my primary care Dr thinks my Ulnar nerve is just dead and finished but this can't be true and he is a only general Dr we call a GP so how can he make that kind of a remark?

I really don't trust these Drs so I will still keep my two hand Surgeon's and Nerve Trauma Neurologist but that's it.

Also I have been doing Rife Therapy twice a week as the practitioner claims he has a program for ulnar nerve damage so I lay and let the frequency hit my body.
He also uses an Omni Pulse machine on me that sends a massive electric charge through wherever it is placed. He tells me that it is good for my body but I am yet to see anything?

Sarge:
I would encourage you to stop prowling You-Tube to locate other individuals with nerve injuries and comparing their case histories to yours.

You are not being infused with accurate information from these casual conversations with people who are absolute strangers to you.

It is NOT common for people to “feel” any impulse or sensation with an anastomoses nerve transfer. That these individuals on You-Tube with reported nerve injury and anastomoses/nerve transfer “feel” something has no clinical bearing on the success or failure of your anastomosis.

As I have mentioned several times, a “charging-impulse” anastomosis is a delicate graft at best. It requires a high degree of surgical skill to place. The long-term patency of the graft site depends largely on factors unique to you and your body’s immmne response and unique neurological recovery.

The native axon is blindly inching along at a snail’s pace toward the distal motor end plate. In your case, traveling from a level of your elbow to the hand. It is a lengthy distance. Interrupted by scar tissue and everyday adjacent normal soft tissue growth and repair. There is NO roadway, no GPS. The journey is never guaranteed.

You have fully retained use of both the median and radial nerve function in your affected hand. You have a partly functional hand. That is a strong positive in your corner.

You report that you have no nerve pain and no constricting ligament or tendon contractures. Full range of motion. Hallulah from the roof tops!

The emergence or presence of nerve pain/neuropathic pain is not correlated with nerve regeneration and nerve regrowth. Your “sources” are filling you with inaccurate information and you are gobbling it up.

Be grateful that you do not have the anguish of nerve pain accompanying your injury. Consider this as another positive in your corner.

I am concerned that you are exposing yourself to shame or snake-oil procedures. The Rife Therapy and Omni Pulse are quasi medicine. Are you exercising best judgement? These procedure may be adversely affecting your hopes for recovery. And certainly would detract from any claim you may want to press for “malpractice” against your original surgeons and plan of care (although I see NO legitimate claim for malpractice or negligence). Detracting from the know standard of care into quasi medicine is at your own peril.

I have worked with individuals who have faced life-altering had devesrating spinal cord and closed head injuries. I can tell you from experience that people who get stuck and cannot free themselves from patterns of negative, circular, or catastrophic thinking do not do as well as those who begin to take steps to adapt and adjust to create a life of meaning and purpose.

Life is inherently going to present upsets and challenges. I know of no life that sails an completely calm sea. Your life is different than it was 8 months ago. That is unfortunate. I think we have been sensitive to your injury and loss of self. My life is different than the future that I envisioned for myself. I think this disquieting fact is true for everyone who visits this forum in a quest for self-understanding and internal peace/acceptance. We are each experiencing deeply affecting loss of health and loss of self.

You have choices. You can chose to remain bitter and anger and miserable. You can choose to find your strength within to live your best life.

You have a medical team who is supporting you. But you risk losing their dedication and direction if you do not also contribute an ounce of positivity and effort to creating your own best recovery - whatever that recovery may be.

Not everyone is able to report a complete 100% recovery - be it for a nerve injury such as yours, or a leg fracture (reference the recent compound fracture and invasive bone infection of the Washington Redskin’s star quarterback), or for a diagnosis of cancer, or a cervical ACDF (that many members her undergo with varying degrees of “success”), or any number of health conditions and injuries. Far more common is the truth that people have residual problems and side effects that are unwelcome.

Take whatever level of recovery you are able to achieve and build from there. That is the best that any of us can do.

I am talking to you from a perspective of someone (myself) with multiple health issues that detract from any semblance of a normal life that others lead. I am not asking of you to look within yourself for anything more than I have had to try to do for myself.

At the end of the day, we are each alone. Ultimately, the work of recovery is one that we each must map out individually.

I have offered to you all that I can. I have nothing more.

Sincerely . . I hope that you are ultimately able to get to where you want to be in health and in life.
Karen

Pitmom:
I often give thought to your daughter and how she is fairing since her Pituitary adenoma resection, so I appreciate your update and sharing.

Cushings’ and Addison’s are endocrine conditions that are endocrine polar opposites but equally distressing to live with.

It may be that your either your daughter’s anterior pituitary is unable to “reboot” and/or that her adrenal glands have a degree of functional inadequacy (atrophy, disuse) with a net effect of inadequate cortisol. It is not unheard of for individuals with Cushings to swing to secondary adrenal insufficiency after resection. Some will chose to adopt permanent corticosteroid replacement when repeated attempts at titration are unsuccessful.

I can empathize with your daughter. Nothing is ever “working” well in my body. A constantly changing target. One day it may be poor kidney function, the next day problematic hypotension and fainting, the next day vomiting and intestinal distress. All from erratic or absent endocrine hormones. There is little that medicine has to offer.

Give your daughter my best. Specialized Pituitary Centers are becoming established in more large hospital settings and understandings of care broadening. I am hopeful for newly diagnosed Pituitary patients and for younger patients such as your daughter that real advances are on the horizon.
Karen

Sarge, I'm glad you got a little encouraging news! Patience is hard to come by at times.

SheShell

As far as could say that was good news my hand surgeon who operated on me crushed my spirt on Friday as I had to see him.

He said to me that the nerve trauma Neurologist wasn't the one who did your surgery I did and was referring to a patient who he had operated on a couple year's ago with a AIN nerve transfer.

He said to me that my patient had a complete cut in half of the ulnar nerve at the elbow so I did a direct never repair 4weeks later and now 18 month's later he has regained half the muscle wastage in his hand.

Now he said I won't even get that back because I'm 35 and that patient was 19 so he said age will impede my recovery and I said to my hand surgeon "but I was only compressed he had a whole nerve cut so he would have lost all his axons where I lost the vast majority and he replied with

" but he was 19! YOUR 35 "and I thought I was going to cry I asked" don't I have any chance of any muscle recovery "?

And he said it will be a slim chance!

This is the worst way he can wrap this up to me because regardless he is 19 he had a whole cut to the nerve where I was compressed only so in Theory I should have the better recovery!

Then my hand surgeon said" you still have a good hand, make the most of it, and Merry xmas"he walked me out and said review in two month's to his Secretary.

I felt like saying "you wouldn't be a HAND SURGEON any more if you had this injury!
But I kept my mouth shut.

So now I'm just trying and praying I recover this coming year and stay hopeful as much as I can.

I feel like crying and screaming and dreaming for as long as I can because this is just something I didn't need to hear.

Again thank you to Sea Shell /Straydog and Pitmom. I feel you are the 3 wise men in my corner.
I wish we could all meet at once that would be a great time.

SeaShell i don't even know what my first hand surgeon was trying to point at by saying that he had a patient one year before me and that he is doing well basically because he was younger I think it's unnecessary to have said it to me.

I think so dearly for that girl that when she got shot and it didn't even pierce his stomach but it did its ultimate damage and saying how you were a therapist in those days. I've had people say rude and cruel things to Me over the month's like did you work? And I'm like yes I did as a matter of fact and very hard once before but most people look at you with the disability and think this is what you have always had and I find it insulting.