Withdrawals... awefull experiences

I've been on one opioid or another for chronic back pain from wrecks while motorcycle stunting and racing since 1999. And from some injuries from working with the phone company years ago.

in the last year my body has started to adapt to the pills, and my dosages can't keep up so i find myself taking 2 to 4 more pills a day (at minimum) than prescribed, just to barely get through a day with a low pain level. This starts to put me short on meds every month and for that one week i'm in the worst shape i have ever been in as far as feeling "sick". it's hell IMO

When i run out, I find that i wake up dizzy and my body tingles all over, I get cold sweats adn hot flashes and then there's the vomiting and diarhea that go on and on untill i can get back into the Doc. I can't sleep, my legs jump uncontrollably and i can't stop moving my feet.  i can't sleep, barely eat and darn sure don't want to see people in anyway shape or form. Last month the psychological effects got so bad the once long gone thoughts of ending my life were back in full swing for a the duration of day 3 with no meds (Luckily i have a very strong will to live and a very supportive family)

 How long can this last and is it possible to detox on your own some how?  I've managed to only have to go 4 days at most with out something to help cope, but jesus, i don't want to move or have my Doc retire ( which he plans on soon ) and then be stuck feeling like mentioned for who knows how long ( not to mention the pain)  IF i wasn't self employed as a painting contractor this would have surely cost me my job anywhere else and i'm in the process of being hired to work for the gocernment in a classified position and don't want to have this happen while working there by any means. It's pretty much the 2nd best job offer i've ever had.

 My doc is a very good person who cares a lot about my pain.  He's actually the head of a psychiatry dept. at our local university med center.  Through exchange of records wth my surgeons he writes my pain meds (oxycodone 15mg 4x a day)  and my valium ( i hardly ever take valium any more though ) the surgeons don't like giving me meds and it costs way more to walk into their offices anyway.

I started seeing him due to the suicidal thoughts i was having because of the limitations that were put on my life at such a young age. Also knowing that it ruined my chances of becoming a Police officer which was a long time goal of mine, i was in bad shape and needed his services. ( i was 20 when i had my first major back injury in 1997 )  SInce the first accident i've learned to cope and continue life the best i can, I still race motorcycles and perform at stunt shows.  I am almost married, Own and run a construction business and have my hands in a hundred other business ventures and prototyping processes for specialty parts for motorcycles and disabled people that wish to ride them.

Also, he has tried to get me in with a pain doc for well over a year and there are none locally that are taking new patients we've tried 5 different ones so far. ( except one place that only does epidural injections i'm out of luck).  He says he would prefer for some one else to write me Oxycontin because he just feels it doesn't look good for a psych doc to write that heavy of a narcotic.  Since my codones only last about 2-3 hours at best anymore. But, since we can't find a pain doc that's taking patients i'm in a very tough spot (at least for me anyway, i know there's people a lot worse off) *arghhhhh*   (BTW, It was my Doc's idea for me to go on contins ..not by my request ) BUt he wont' write them :(

Well this post is long, and thoughts are scattered through out.  hopefully you can make sense of it and offer some advice on the 2 things i'm looking for input on.

1.) withdrawals and how to get over or around them

2.) how to find a doc that will write Contins since the pain clinics arent taking new patients and i've decided against' epidurals since i'm completely un-insured ( and they cost A LOT ) plus i  still owe over 10 grand on my last surgery that i had on my left leg ( it's been rebuilt from knee to hip completely)

Hi Stuntrider,

You have a two problems. Your medication is not covering your pain properly and you need a different medication that can you the relief you should be getting. Think about it, if the oxycodone worked you would not be running short every month.

I have no idea where you live, is going to another town close by not an option? Alot of us go out of our home towns because we cannot find a doctor where we live that can help us. For me I go out of a large city to a small town for my gi, orthopedic, pulmonary and pain mgt drs.

You definetly need a different medication to get your pain under control. Don't worry about not having the Eppy's done, thats just putting a bandaid on the problem is all.

I wish I could offer more suggestions but this is the best I can come up with.......Susie

straydog.. i did find one about an hour from here that will take me ( he had one opening when i called) but due to money problems i couldn't make the first appointment and now that i can afford it i was told my spot(their one opening for a new patient) was filled by some one else :(

straydog.... I am not married YET... her lack of understanding of my pain from our first 5 years together caused us to seperate a year ago fo about 8 months. (right after we got engaged). We are now back together and doing well. But, for me to quit what i do (perorming on motorcycles) really wouldn't do much since she is into the same things, mostly due to my influence and my injuries haven't dicouraged her so words aren't going to work either if you ask me ( she just hasn't been hurt badly yet) ALthough i DO try and discourage her from making the same mistakes i have ( taking these kinds of risks) , she shares the same adrenaline driven pursuits as me, so i would only be sitting on the sidelines coaching her at that point. We don't have kids yet and are hoping to within the next 5 years or so.

Racing and taking high speed risks runs in my family my grandfather and father both raced in their day, my older brother got me into it and it's the biggest addiction I have. there's nothing like pleasing a crowd doing something that others can only view as deadly or insane IMO and that's something i'll never shake. I do plan on calming down, but when? I have no idea, when my gut instinct tells me it's time i will hang up the leather suit and focus more on building the machines that i love to drive/ride ( building and tuning these machines is my 2nd love of the sport)

Gramps..... I'm glad you vew it as i do. Although dependant on these meds, i'd still be worse off with out them.

but to get back on topic ( partially my own thread jack i guess ) i still wonder what i can do to avoid these withdrawels and how to find a Doc even if he's only a GP that will take care fo me the way i need to be taken care of and not just label me as a "drug seeker" or whatever the term is. My doc has run out of others to refer me to that he knows will take me seriously. So now it's kinda like throwing darts blind folded in finding a new Doc that can do as my current one thinks i need ( the extended release oxy scripts ) I've been on about everythign else i know of from anti inflamitories to celebrex and a few other that i forget the names of now days. If opiates are the only relief i can get, so be it. I don't abuse them, i work hard every day and run my own business and lead a pretty normal and exciting life and i'm happy to have that. if i can get back in and finish college to where i can get a job that will allow me to risk and afford the operation on my back and epidural shots that would be great, but my focus is on the here and now. The upcoming Govt. job might allow me to get this operation and shots if the insurance doens't knock me out for a "pre-existing condition" BS excuse

I know all of my injuries are my own fault in one way or another but we make decisions and live with teh consiquinces (sp?)

Post Edited (Stuntrider) : 10/18/2007 12:46:19 PM (GMT-6)

Sunstrider - I'm going to be as nicely blunt as I can be...

If you are taking more medication than prescribed - even though it is for legitimate pain - you are abusing your medications. You are putting not only you, but your doctor who is nice enough to write them even though he's not 100% comfortable with it, at risk. You NEED to get yourself into a pain management clinic - even if it's 2-3 hours away. They can help you - by putting you on long acting narcotics, by giving you different medications - or ones that aren't processed by your systems so easily, they can prescribe other meds that help in their own ways.

I totally understand not wanting the shot therapy. I went through four sets of 20 plus shots in my back over 6 weeks. They did nothing except put a little bit father into debt with medical bills. What you should do is start researching pain clinic's around you - as I said even 2-3 hours out. Call them - and explain to them that if there is a list for new patients you'd like to be on it. You want a call the moment an opening arises. OR call them every week and see if they have any openings.

You really are going to have to start avoiding the urge to take more medication than you are supposed to. I understand legitimate pain - believe me - may of the people here understand it, and we all wish we didn't suffer it. BUT - your putting yourself and your doctor at risk by taking more. When you take more medication than you are supposed to your body gets used to having that amount in it. It's then going to want/need more medication gradually to compensate for the amount of pain your in. We all are dependent on our medication to some form or another. If your prescribed 4 pills a day and you take 6 - thats half a day at the end of the month you won't have relief. And those days add up quickly. Then as I said your body gets used to 6 pills a day - and it NEEDS that 6 pills - so you NEED that amount - and are going to always be running short.

Look at it this way - would you rather feel a 6-7 pain level for 30 days - or a 3-4 level for 15 then a 9-10 level of pain for the rest the month? Thats essentially what you are doing. The withdrawals are going to be horrible - and then due to pain building up - your going to take more than prescribed the moment you get the pills back to make up for how bad you feel. It's like someone on a diet avoiding all sweets during the week, to pig out and live off of sweets for the weekend. One doesn't make the other right. The person on the diet isn't going to lose weight that way, and you aren't going to find a happy medium pain wise either. If you keep yourself on the right amount of medication - continually - your going to end up better off than taking a ton and then going into withdrawal.

You HAVE to talk to your doctor about either getting a script for more meds - OR - something stronger. Imagine what might happen if you do get into a pain clinic and they blood test you? If they test during your "withdrawal" period - they might wonder if your selling them, giving them away, using them for parties, or hording them, and you dont need them, because you dont have enough what you are wrote in your system. OR if you go in during the times when you are taking too much - they are going to see you as an addict, a drug abuser, or worse. You can get labeled as a drug seeker, and addict - and your doctor could lose his practice.

IF you decide you are going to continue the way you have been - as far as trying to avoid or minimize withdrawals - I've looked it up (yep just for you :) ) it appears the best way is to taper yourself off the medication by decreasing your dosage by 1/2 every 3 days. Until you are taking the minimum you can for 3 - 6 days then to stop taking it. It also mentioned an anti-diareaha med, along with sleep meds to help. But it's still going to suck. It's why you get wrote a certain number of pills each day - not take 120 in a month.

I wish you the best of luck - and please please find a way to stop taking more than you are wrote! Withdrawal at some point could hospitalize you, or worse. The same can be said of taking too much medication.

TDoern...question for ya... if i can gradually taper down on my medication will my body adjust to where lower levels of medication will start working again? that would be better IMO than going on oxycontins for years and then ahving yet another "upgrade" or what have you to make from there. If that is the case and it can be done i'd rather try that first.

To answer your qustion at the end of your post, YES. I know all of those things. adn as much as i tell myself each month that i'm going to take less, it hardly ever works out that way. when i'm in pain it effects my relationships with my fiance, family and friends. So when i'm not in any pain and i dont' have to mention it or talk about what i can or cannot do it seems better off. I always plan on just not taking as many on low pain days and someitmes i get those days and sometimes i don't... sometimes i only need what's written or less to keep out of pain, but sometimes what's written just doesn't cut it.

i came here for advice, not to brag about how many pills i can take. i'm not taking tons of them every day but like i said some/most days requires 1-2 more than written and talking to my doc about this is why he wants me to see a pain management doctor so hopefully they can provide something he can't. just his first thought was tolerance to the drug and maybe a ER version (hence the OC talk) i really don't want to be tied to a darn pill bottle my whole life.
i don't know what i want to do.. i sure don't want to go 7500+ dollars more in debt for a series of 3 shots that may or may not work. I do PT on my own, 3 times a week at the gym, not to mention teh physical demands of the sport i'm involved in.

The time i died and was revived has sat in the back of my mind for years and years...and you know what..most of the time i think it would have been better off for them not to have found me for another few hours and to have jsut let me sleep peacefully there in the woods. I remember as i crawled through the grass the best i could that all i wanted to do was sleep and i fought that notion knowing what the outcome would be untill i passed out. Then i woke up in the hospitol on a morphine pump as if it were all a dream. Now everything in my life is limited by what my back can or cannot put up with. and at the age of 30 this is not something i want to deal with for another 30+ years and i don't want to put the people close to me through it either
here's what i came home to the next day proving it was no dream...and only one of MANY accidents where the vehicle never made it out but somehow i did. I've got an archive of these that make most people sick at their stomachs

Stunt, your post started out asking how to work with the withdrawal symptoms originally... having been a Detox Tech Supervisor at one point in my career lives, I can give you some tidbits of advice to lessen some of the symptoms but nothing is going to make it easier. Point blank you are an opiate addict due to your injuries and chronic pain and life is not easy that way. The body adapts quickly and it raises it's tolerance fast.

I would suggest a combination of homeopathic resources along with your regular pain meds and a very serious evaluation of your regular medication regimen to be sure what you're taking is specifically to tackle the pain and not a blanket shot trying to avoid any pain. I would attempt to determine what pain might be tolerable and at what intervals those occur and then try to time your pain meds at the most critical points to get the most out of your prescription. For example, if your med on standard dose is only lasting 4-6 hrs, then time it to take it so that it will tackle your pain over the most critical point so that you're not chasing the pain thereafter. That is usually what happens so that you take more and more until you've built the atomic bomb of painkiller in your system and then it's relieved but then the merry go round starts all over.

The other thing I suggest is to consider combinations of over the counter to alleviate some pain that may not require the big dog opiate... for example, if 3-4 advil (ibuprofen) will take care of inflammation and achiness, use that as an interim, until you need to sleep then hit the opiate. You can reduce your tolerance build up that way. If you're experiencing Restless legs alot (due to the injuries and the joint damage), Tylenol PM (or any store brand PM) helps with that. If sleep is an issue or anxiety a major problem, Calms Forte is a an all natural product that can be used WITH any over the counter or opiate without problems and it's good for helping you sleep, relaxing the nerves etc.

Ask your doctor about a good muscle relaxant like Flexeril (try not to go with Soma as it is addictive) and it too can be used with other meds, and isn't needed constantly, only when necessary to prevent the build up. For sleep, melatonin and valerian root and the calms forte all can be taken together to help relax for sleep at night... and Calms Forte is good around the clock every 4hrs as directed for calming the nerves during those withdrawal episodes.

Finally, during withdrawals, one of the best things my clients always said helped was a hot shower. The body goes to sleep under opiates, all it's systems slow down (digestive/intestinal- that why the vomiting and diarhea reaction, the body rebels; the muscles ache from lethargy). But clients oft reported a very hot shower (as hot as they could stand it) would relieve the creepy crawlies and soothe the muscles and spasms.

Research your meds. Explore Elavil or Neurontin for reducing the way the body percieves the pain. I've learned to combine and juggle my meds and supplements so that my body doesn't get used to any one thing... my pain isn't nearly as severe as yours by any means, but it's chronic so it requires managment as I intend to function well for a very long time! I wish you well on finding an answer.

Oh btw, if anyone suggest Methadone, avoid it like the plague. What you're experiencing now in withdrawal is amplified 100% worst coming off Methadone ... unless you make it your script for life. You can get clear of opiates in 4-5 days, Meth is anywhere from 10-30 AFTER the first week off of them. Just my experience with clients.

We spoke on friday and he said that he and my surgeon agree that i'm on very little meds compared to most people in my shape and they' aren't pulling me off, but giving me 2 more pills a day to take. I told them that due to the addictive properties i dont' want to go on higher doses ( i.e. Oxycontin) due to the withdrawals i get now. he was surprised to hear i didn't want' the meds since he had put in his notes that are going to the pain clinic, that he thinks i need the ER version.

I"m still going to see the pain clinic on Nov. 12th, and i should have insurance in a few months after speaking with the lady who's doing the hiring for the govt job i was offered and MAYBE i'll try the epidurals, or if my coverage doesn't try adn screw me due to "pre-existing condition" BS i may risk the surgery if the govt job is as good as it sounds

thanks for the help everyone