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Could Something Else Be Fueling The Pain?

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Posted 5/30/2008 3:22 AM (GMT 0)
I spent the last week doing sleep studies, getting a BiPAP machine, and learning how to use it.  After my first, frustrating, night with the BiPAP, i discovered that my constant debilitating back pain, usually at a 7 when i first wake up in the am, was at about a 3, which it seldom ever is.

i talked to my doctor today and told him about this strange occurance.  he said that it is normal.  the thalamus gland, in the center of the brain, controls our perception of pain.  sometimes it turns the perception down, like in we are running a race (for me, that was in hs, 44 yrs ago) and have an injury but keep on going because we don't know we are injured.  at other times, the thalomus turns the pain up when there is little stimulus, as in chronic pain that has no particular identifiable cause.

when a person suffers from sleep apnia, they never get a full night's rest and are always suffering from sleep deprivation.  this sleep depravation makes the thalamus turn the pain perception all of the way up.

i can't help but wonder if some of the chronic PAIN that some of us experience is due to sleep apnia.

warren

Posted 5/30/2008 4:16 AM (GMT 0)
warren:

I am thrilled to hear you are in less pain! I hope that continues to be the case and that you will feel even better as you become accustomed to the BiPAP machine. I have a couple family members who suffer from sleep apnea, and I know those machines are difficult to use at first - almost claustrophobic. But worth it for sure if it helps you get a more restful, restorative sleep!
Posted 5/30/2008 11:30 AM (GMT 0)
gramps,

is there a little dark cloud always over your head? lol like in l'il abner - joe blix*******? look at the situation from outside and it's sardonically funny. if you don't laugh at these things, you cry (at least i do).

why would they throw your pills away? these people, "public servants," amaze me. whe ni left england many yrs ago, i brought a full set of the Bach Flower Remedies with me on the plane. one of the inspectors examed the three (or four?) boxed of small vials and wanted to confiscate them as contraband. fortunately the other inspector knew something about homeopathy and told the first inspector that the boxes and vials were really not contraband and could go with me. lol

gotta love this insanity, gramps. i do what i can to fight, just not as presistand (or successful) as you. usually, though, i just find the humor in the situation and laugh at it. could it me my age? lol

wishing you and everyone here a pain free week-end.

warren
Posted 5/30/2008 11:45 PM (GMT 0)
Lol @ warren! You are a bit of a devil , eh? I'm glad to hear u report a 3 this morn, doesn't that just make your day start out right? yeah

I'm quite sure that quality of sleep makes a diff in our pain levels, when I am really beat, I hurt hurt hurt, as I'm sure we  all do. I have a friend who's hubby uses a C-pap and he has more energy thru the day now. Hope u con't to do well with it.

Gramps, you'd be lost w/o your lil black cloud....what's his/her name?

Posted 5/31/2008 12:28 AM (GMT 0)
So it's a she, eh??? Do tell....lol Silver is a great name...and yes, pls don't sing, we will be in some really bad pain!!! devil
Posted 5/31/2008 12:43 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Ho Silver!! (couldn't resist!)

PaLady
Posted 5/31/2008 5:55 AM (GMT 0)
Oh great PA...now he'll be singing Happy Trails to You....*Muzz covers her ears* devil
Posted 5/31/2008 5:38 PM (GMT 0)
Warren,
Didn't mean to hijack your thread a bit. But I did want to add that for a couple of years I was chronically sleep deprived from undertreated pain. I didn't realize what a difference it made until my PCP finally relented and gave me a vicodin to take at bedtime along with my other meds. So while I didn't have sleep apnea (that I know of!) once I got better sleep it made a huge difference. Didn't take away all the pain by any means, but at least the pain wasn't being exacerbated. And research is showing more and more that chronic sleep deprivation can lead to a lot of other health problems, let alone what happens at work. So glad to hear you're getting some treatment for yours, and that it's helping your pain. I certainly know that the BEST time of my day is when I first wake up. I have a tempurpedic and love it, and that's the only time when I can hope for a few minutes of relatively low pain - sometimes even a minute or two of no pain, if I'm really lucky - but it goes downhill once I get up. No wonder I spend half my day in bed!

I also chuckled at the Bach Flower Remedies - can you imagine trying to bring them on a plain in a post 9/11 world?!

PaLady
Posted 5/31/2008 9:35 PM (GMT 0)
Good post PA. Gramps, I was thinking of Roy Rogers...duh, Silver is the Lone Ranger. So now u get to sing The William Penn Overture...er, hum it, perhaps? eyes    :-)

Warren, so sorry that your thread has turned in Name That Tune...forgive us? Gramps will sing You Always Hurt the One You Love......lolololol

Posted 5/31/2008 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
Ok, I can't seem to find the William Penn Overture (I think it was also called Comedian's Gallup??) in my memory bank, but the theme from Bonanza won't quit! Maybe we need to cut a CD? LOL

Warren it's your thread - you want to add your fav. tune to the list?

PaLady
Posted 5/31/2008 9:59 PM (GMT 0)
Pa...u remember..Hi Hi Silver and away!!! Da da dum da da dum da dum dum dum..of course I don't remember, I was just a baby back then....LOLOLOLOLOL

Warren, how about...They Took My Thread and Won't Give it Back....sure to be a hit!

Posted 5/31/2008 11:58 PM (GMT 0)
Warren, ,please tell me more about the BiPAP machine. I probably have sleep apnea, but I mainly just have trouble going to sleep. I have had chronic spine pain for 6 years now. I get my sleep in the form of several/many naps at different times of the day and night. Anyway, sounds to me like I need to know more about the BiPAP. Than ks, Pamela Neckpain
Posted 6/1/2008 1:34 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Pamela and welcome! I'm sure that you'll get a lot of good info about CP and the many things that u can do that help.
Posted 6/1/2008 1:35 AM (GMT 0)
LOL! OK, Muzz & PAlady, (please excuse me too, Warren redface)

I think you mean William TELL. tongue

I have been reading and enjoying this thread and thinking about sleeping problems at the same time, and it occurred to me that many of us will go to bed tonight and count SONGS when we cannot sleep! All those poor sheep out of work...
Posted 6/1/2008 2:01 AM (GMT 0)
hey, y'all!  (living in AL is rubbing off on me)

i've been "otherwise occupied" and wasn't even aware that my thread had been hijacked!!

isn't the purpose of this web site, and this forum especially, to help us to cope with our problems by sharing?  "name that tune" works for me!  my favorite song?  "Jeremiah was a bull frog" and "proud Mary."  shows my age.  but gramps singing them?  couldn't be any worse than me singing them.   lol  and my wife leaves the house if i start to sing in the shower!

Pam:

sleep deprivation has been demonstrated to cause many physical problems (even death) and proven to cause or aggravate other mental/physical problems. Sleep deprivation is used in what they called "brainwashing" during the Korean war and now called "extreme interrogation techniques" today.  what's in a name?  the point is it weakens the mind, body and spirit.

pain can cause people to be unable to fall asleep (PALady talked about that) and to stay asleep.  i toss and turn, moan and grown, and yell out loud with pain while i'm asleep (so my wife tells me).  sleep apnea is a condition in which, for some reason, you are unable to breath for a short period of time while asleep and your blood oxygen level falls by at least 4%.   to find out why you cannot go to sleep, you would ne4ed to go to an experienced accredited sleep therapist (an MD speciality, like psychiatry).  this person can help determine the cause for your inability to sleep.  the reasons can be as simple as pain, or as confusing as psychological reaction to pain or other trauma, or as complex as sleep apnea.  i'm far from an md or a psychologist.  i'm just an old man who has seen and experienced more than any one person should ever have to in one lifetime.  :-)    i hope that this epistle helps.  if not, ask and i will tell you what i know or refer you to other sources.

warren

 

Posted 6/1/2008 2:14 AM (GMT 0)
confused  I'm hearing a lot about sleep apnea and chronic pain. I'm been suffering from chronic pain, have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia since 1994, and it's been a daily struggle. However, I recall having a major sleep disorder since my eldest child was born (actually since he was in utero, second term, once he started moving, he never stopped.) He would sleep, as an infant, at most three hours, at a stretch and I was never able to sleep more than 2-3 hours at a stretch. That continues to this day. I sleep at most four hours at a stretch with quite a bit of medicine on board. Amyltriptilene, 100mg. at bedtime, sometimes a muscle relaxer or a pain med also. It should keep me asleep, but doesn't. I have to have white noise to drown out outside noise. I cannot sleep with another person in the room. There must be a connection. I'm new here, so hello. Bye for now
Posted 6/1/2008 2:25 AM (GMT 0)
Hi and Welcome to Pam & tyno3!

I don't have sleep apnea, but as I said above I know what sleep deprivation can to. I hope some things on this thread help, although we did get a little sidetracked (happens from time to time!). I encourage you to look through the other threads or start one of your own if you don't find answers. We don't have all of them but there's a lot of information and experience on this board, and loads of support!

Tyno you may also want to check out the fibromyalgia section of this forum.

PaLady
Posted 6/1/2008 5:28 AM (GMT 0)
ry, of course, u r right! Why did I have William Penn on the brain.

That said, I officially return this thread to warren...yeeeehaa, ya'll!

 

Posted 6/1/2008 12:37 PM (GMT 0)
  *** QUOTE ***  "  the thalamus gland, in the center of the brain, controls our perception of pain.  sometimes it turns the perception down, like in we are running a race (for me, that was in hs, 44 yrs ago) and have an injury but keep on going because we don't know we are injured.  at other times, the thalomus turns the pain up when there is little stimulus, as in chronic pain that has no particular identifiable cause. "

so  how does one... TEACH the Thalamus   when its right or wrong??

I have been seeing a Reflexologist and I know she has... talked about certain trigger points..  such as the hypocampus.... liver, spine.. teeth...

I try to pay attention when she is giivng me a therapy session, but I ahve learned so much in the 5 sessions i've had

 

seems to me  the Thalamus...   does   React... sends  messages

 

I'll have to enquire at my next appointment

 

and let you all know

 

WE MAY be ON to something  that can HELP 

 

YAY!!!!!!!!!

 

Posted 6/1/2008 6:28 PM (GMT 0)
Shelter,
There really is something to what you're suggesting - training the brain, to an extent. I'm not saying it can cure pain, but certainly can help moderate it. Does anyone have the specific answers that I know of - no. But one good way is by a regular meditative practice of some sort - and there are many different approaches.

I've mentioned this resource before but will again. Belleruth Naparstek, LISW, started her work with the Cleveland Clinic and cancer patients decades ago, but has since expanded to many, many physical and emotional problems. She produces state of the art, scientifically based guided imagery and relaxation CD's (or downloadable versions to MP3's), and has written some book, the latest one deals with the use of imagery to help with trauma. Her resources were used with 9/11 victims and firefighters and others traumatized, Columbine survivors, etc., and are given out by insurance companies in California to use with surgical patients. You can find her website by clicking on the Healing Well resources and putting in her name. I use her Pain and Sleep CD's regularly. You can listen to small clips for free on her website, and can even get some of her material at your library. I think if you buy something and do it through Healing Well (connecting to a website through healing well) that HW may get a percentage of the profits, so I won't give her website in this post. But it should be easy to find. That's one way of helping train the brain to at least moderate pain signals, but I'm not saying it's a cure.

PaLady

p.s. Geesh, Warren, we're really steering this thread all over the highway! LOL

Post Edited (PAlady) : 6/1/2008 12:31:44 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/2/2008 7:21 AM (GMT 0)
PAlady,

why not? what are friends for?

just don't let gramps or me sing!

warren
Posted 6/4/2008 1:21 PM (GMT 0)
gramps,

and i thought I was cynical! you may be entirely correct in you assessment, but it still reaks of cynnicism. lol i love it!!

after about a week with my bipap i am still feeling pretty good. unless i overdo it, my pain has pretty much been hovering between a 3 and 4. of course i cut the grass over the past four days and was nearly crying from the pain. ok. i am both stupid and crazy. lol but someone had to do it and i was the best of the worst. st least i finished the task. there's something to be said for being able to do that.

hope everyone is having a great, pain -free week. it's about 90 degrees here and about 100 in the rio grande valley of texas. maybe i'll move to canada after the election. they should put in a box that says "none of the above." except that is probably the candidate that would win. end of politics.

take care, people,

warrren
Posted 6/4/2008 6:43 PM (GMT 0)
Warren,
You'll have to shovel snow instead of mowing lawn - the grass isn't greener up north - it's white! LOL

PaLady
Posted 6/4/2008 10:42 PM (GMT 0)
warren, didn't know that None was running this yr...is he/she related to Lesser of 2 Evils?? devil   BTW, love your sig!
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