I don't know what to do.

Hi, Davy,
Welcome to the chronic pain forum of Healing Well. I'm so sorry you have to be here, and for what you're going through. I'm not sure how old you are now, but it sounds like you had the scoliosis surgery in your teens. Did it correct the curvature at all?

We're not doctors here, but I thought (and this is just my opinion) that vicodin was chemically somewhat similar to oxycodone, but not as strong. Asking your pharmacist (or your doctor) might help. There are so many different tests that can be run that I wonder if the vicodin was picked up on the test but labeled as oxycodone. It's just a thought, and I could be completely off base.

Is your doctor that you're seeing now a pain management specialist or just your PCP? I would definitely suggest at least a consult with a PM specialist if you're going to be on long term pain meds. You may have to do urine screens and such for awhile, and maybe you could even offer to. And over time build up trust with this new doctor.

Hope this helps a bit. Again, welcome.

PaLady
One thing - I would suggest not asking for a specific drug with your doctor. As you said, it's up to her. But you can say what does and doesn't work for you.

Post Edited (PAlady) : 2/14/2009 5:18:07 PM (GMT-7)

Davy,
Signing the contract is pretty standard if you're seeing a pm specialist, and any doctor can require one if they're prescribing narcotics. And the drug screens, too. In your case, I would think of them as a way to rebuild trust. But be sure your take your meds exactly as prescribed, and if you're called in for a random screen, you want to let them know when you took your last pill, etc., and that way if the levels is a little off they'll know. If I were you, I'd do a little research into what kind of tests are run, because there are many kinds of urine screens and you want to be sure yours will be accurate as far as what you're taking.

If you've not had any physical therapy or other modalities, then certainly you should be evaluated for them. When we have long term pain issues, we need to do a variety of things, not just medications. You sound like you're still fairly young (I could be wrong!) and if that's the case doctors will want to move very slowly with meds, if it seems like you're going to need them for the rest of your life. I don't know if other surgeries are planned, or what the prognosis is from your surgeon.

This is a great group for support, so feel free to join in anywhere.

PaLady

PAlady said...
Davy,
Signing the contract is pretty standard if you're seeing a pm specialist, and any doctor can require one if they're prescribing narcotics. And the drug screens, too. In your case, I would think of them as a way to rebuild trust. But be sure your take your meds exactly as prescribed, and if you're called in for a random screen, you want to let them know when you took your last pill, etc., and that way if the levels is a little off they'll know. If I were you, I'd do a little research into what kind of tests are run, because there are many kinds of urine screens and you want to be sure yours will be accurate as far as what you're taking.

If you've not had any physical therapy or other modalities, then certainly you should be evaluated for them. When we have long term pain issues, we need to do a variety of things, not just medications. You sound like you're still fairly young (I could be wrong!) and if that's the case doctors will want to move very slowly with meds, if it seems like you're going to need them for the rest of your life. I don't know if other surgeries are planned, or what the prognosis is from your surgeon.

This is a great group for support, so feel free to join in anywhere.

PaLady

Hi PALady,

I'm 28 years old. I've been on Darvocet for around 8 years and then on Vicodin for the past year. The only reason why I was put on Vicodin was because my Othopedic doctor recommended the drug to my old PCP. Vicodin made the pain disappear. Just taking 4 pills a day.  Now, I'm praying to God that I'll be put back on it. I'm afraid that I'll never be comfortable again. I'm allergic to Asprin and Ibuprufin. So the pain meds that I can take are few and far between. I have a very low tolerance to drugs.

Post Edited (DavyDave) : 2/15/2009 2:39:30 PM (GMT-7)

Davy,
Do you do anything else to try to manage (notice I said manage, not cure) your pain - such as using heat/ice, etc? Have you ever tried accupuncture? It does help some people, although it's generally not a cure and sadly, most insurances don't cover it.

You can also learn a lot by reading other threads.

Take care,

PaLady

PAlady said...
Davy,
Do you do anything else to try to manage (notice I said manage, not cure) your pain - such as using heat/ice, etc? Have you ever tried accupuncture? It does help some people, although it's generally not a cure and sadly, most insurances don't cover it.

You can also learn a lot by reading other threads.

Take care,

PaLady

PALady, accupuncture has never crossed my mind, to be honest. I try to get out and exterise because I have my grandfather's voice tattooed in my mind. "Walk and you'll get better!" So I go to the local mall and walk a few laps inside of it. But then I go home and I'm forced to lay down in bed because the pain is so bad. The heat pads work, but for a short time.

Davy,
If you've never seen a physical therapist, I'd strongly suggest you talk with your doctor about it. No, it's not going to cure the remaining curvature, but your body has likely "adapted" by pulling and straining certain muscles, lengthening some while shortening others. Some types of activity may help, but some may hurt. You may be overdoing it. A good PT can show you maybe some stretch routines, get you on a program that's designed for you. The "no pain no gain" theory does NOT work - especially for us CPP's, so even if you're walking, you may be doing too much, going too fast. You're also walking on a hard surface if you go to hte mall, which is more stressful on joints.

Another thing is that talking with a therapist (psychologist, clinical social worker,, etc) who deals with chronic pain may also help you see how you can adapt your life in the future. I'd suggest talking with your doctor about these things - PT, acupuncture, massage, etc. - as well as medication. This will help you manage pain in the long run, and you'll have to look at the long run, sadly. But the more you learn about different approaches, what may help, what hurts, etc. the better you'll do.

PaLady
oops! Almost forgot deep relaxation can also help. There are many avenues for this, but some of the best material is produced by Belleruth Naparstek (I have no financial connection with her or her website). You can listen to snippets of her CD's for free at healthjourneys.com. She does have one for chronic pain, and also for anxiet & panic attacks.

Post Edited (PAlady) : 2/15/2009 3:00:53 PM (GMT-7)

PAlady said...
Davy,
If you've never seen a physical therapist, I'd strongly suggest you talk with your doctor about it. No, it's not going to cure the remaining curvature, but your body has likely "adapted" by pulling and straining certain muscles, lengthening some while shortening others. Some types of activity may help, but some may hurt. You may be overdoing it. A good PT can show you maybe some stretch routines, get you on a program that's designed for you. The "no pain no gain" theory does NOT work - especially for us CPP's, so even if you're walking, you may be doing too much, going too fast. You're also walking on a hard surface if you go to hte mall, which is more stressful on joints.

Another thing is that talking with a therapist (psychologist, clinical social worker,, etc) who deals with chronic pain may also help you see how you can adapt your life in the future. I'd suggest talking with your doctor about these things - PT, acupuncture, massage, etc. - as well as medication. This will help you manage pain in the long run, and you'll have to look at the long run, sadly. But the more you learn about different approaches, what may help, what hurts, etc. the better you'll do.

PaLady
oops! Almost forgot deep relaxation can also help. There are many avenues for this, but some of the best material is produced by Belleruth Naparstek (I have no financial connection with her or her website). You can listen to snippets of her CD's for free at healthjourneys.com. She does have one for chronic pain, and also for anxiet & panic attacks.

PALady, this new doctor is gonna send me to physical therapy. She told me that if she puts me on Vicodin. She does that to all her patients on Narcotics. Also she gives everyone random drug screenings and random pill counting. She didn't tell me that because she don't trust me.(not to my knowledge) She gave me a copy of the Pain management contract. It explains everything. I told her I was willing to sign my name on the dotted line, but at the time she said that she wanted to read my medical records.

Dave, I cant beleive they put you on Suboxone if you where just taking 4 vicodins a day, and on 16mgs, wow. Even 2mgs was way too much for you. Suboxone really is a wonderful drug but when it's prescribed right, but whoever gave it to you should not be a doctor allowed to prescribe it at all, it would have probably killed you if it wasnt for the naloxone in it. I take between 16-24mgs a day and I was taking about close to 300mgs in methadone a day that was prescribed by a pain specialist, so we have completly diffrent tolerences in pain meds, and you taking 16mgs in suboxone was overkill. People seem to forget that suboxone is a very very strong drug (50 times stronger then morphine) and should be prescribed carefully (thats why doctors have to be qualified to prescribe it). Also to your drug tests, about 6 years ago I was taking the fentanyl patches with Actiq and I got hired at Walmart and they made me go for a drug tests (they do to everyone before they start working) and they said I came up positive for Morphine, which I hadnt even touched morphine at that time so I fought with them, even had my doctor and pharmacist call, but they wouldnt beleive them or me so I couldnt start working which set me into a severe depression and decided to get on disabilty instead. Some of these drug tests are not right at all, or they dont know how some of these drug metabolize in our systems diffrently from others, so hopefully your new doctor will know this and give you a chance. And alot of doctors will give someone a 2nd chance but they are very strict for a while so If she does give you that chance I wouldn' get offended if you feel she's being hard on you for a while.

-hellokitty

Hello~Kitty said...
Dave, I cant beleive they put you on Suboxone if you where just taking 4 vicodins a day, and on 16mgs, wow. Even 2mgs was way too much for you. Suboxone really is a wonderful drug but when it's prescribed right, but whoever gave it to you should not be a doctor allowed to prescribe it at all, it would have probably killed you if it wasnt for the naloxone in it. I take between 16-24mgs a day and I was taking about close to 300mgs in methadone a day that was prescribed by a pain specialist, so we have completly diffrent tolerences in pain meds, and you taking 16mgs in suboxone was overkill. People seem to forget that suboxone is a very very strong drug (50 times stronger then morphine) and should be prescribed carefully (thats why doctors have to be qualified to prescribe it). Also to your drug tests, about 6 years ago I was taking the fentanyl patches with Actiq and I got hired at Walmart and they made me go for a drug tests (they do to everyone before they start working) and they said I came up positive for Morphine, which I hadnt even touched morphine at that time so I fought with them, even had my doctor and pharmacist call, but they wouldnt beleive them or me so I couldnt start working which set me into a severe depression and decided to get on disabilty instead. Some of these drug tests are not right at all, or they dont know how some of these drug metabolize in our systems diffrently from others, so hopefully your new doctor will know this and give you a chance. And alot of doctors will give someone a 2nd chance but they are very strict for a while so If she does give you that chance I wouldn' get offended if you feel she's being hard on you for a while.

-hellokitty

Thank you Kitty. You're right the dose of Suboxone was too strong. I was going to a drug detox clinic because I was just too afraid of the withdrawals of the Vicodin and I think they just give that dose to everyone going there. No matter what drug they were on before. My old PCP but me between a rock and a hard place. He didn't even give me enough Vicodin to taper off. The detox clinic was an awful place, and I will never go there again. Even 2mgs was just too strong. They wouldn't brake the 2mg pill in half and give me 1mg a day instead. I was forced to go there every single day. Luckly I was only on the stuff for 19 days. So I had little to no withdrawal symptoms.

Hello~Kitty said...
dave, you had to go everyday?? Wow, I could never do that, the doctor I go to (not a clinic) only makes me come once a month and then after 6 months I go every 2 months. My doctor is a general doctor but is also specialized in addiction medicine and is one of the best doctor's I 've ever been to, if it wasnt for the fact hat he's and hour and half away I would make him my reguluar doctor but I cant drive that far everytime I need to see a doctor, that would be too much of an incoveince. Suboxone is not a one size fits all, and if the clinic you went to wouldnt let you cut the 2mg pils then do they just make you jump off of 2mgs?? because even that is a very high dose, but I know alot of these methadone clinics that are now doing suboxone are just in it for the money, because they are just after keeping you hooked so they can get rich. Well I hope everything gets figured out for you, i know if I ever took hydros i would end up in the hospital cause they make me vomit like crazy, actually everytime I even think about them I get sick to my stomach.

-hellokitty

Yeah I hear most people come off Suboxone drug at .5 mg. I guess I was fortunate to have little to no withdrawals. The clinic wanted me to give me a 2mg pill every other day I thought that was ridiculous so I just stopped going. ;) It was foolish of me going to a drug rehab clinic when all I needed was another PCP. Everytime I went there I asked myself "Why am I here?"

 

Davy glad to see your dr is letting you come in early. Let us know how the appt went and hang in there....Susie

Davy, I understand. Lets just hope that next Tuesday will be the beginning of a new deal for you. I am glad to see your new dr at least has a plan of action with her patients. I think it will be a good new start for you in getting some help. Just hang on the best you can teill Tuesday and see what happens? Does this new dr know about the rod problem you have going on and the need for more surgery? Perhaps if she has reviewed your records she will see that you have many problems that will would justify giving you decent pain meds. Don't be surprised if she wants to try a diffferent pain med than vicodin. As long as it is something that will work who cares. Just don't dig your heels in on it being vicodin or nothing. You already know how hard it is to find a dr so lets give her a chance the same as she is giving you a chance. Keeping my fingers & toes crossed for good luck....Susie