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Posted 3/8/2009 5:38 PM (GMT 0)

Pete for me I feel guilt, because of the CP, I don't feel I can do enough, some ways it does make me feel inadquate. Because I want to do more! I am suppose to be able to do more! . and I feel Guility because I can't. It is just like when I went into nursing, there are so many needs by your patients, and try as you might, it is almost impossible to take care of them all. And I felt guility, and the guilt made me work all the harder. But at least the patients benefited from it!  But with CP the more and harder you work because of Guilt, the more the pain you feel  and the worse you become, and there is no benefit, just more pain and more guilt!

White Beard

Posted 3/8/2009 5:39 PM (GMT 0)
I seem to remember Dr Phil saying that guilt implies intent. No one ever set out in life with the intention to be in pain forever and having to deal with all the collateral damage surrounding it. S**t happens to everyone but the truest test is how we go about handling it. We do what we can to the best of our current abilities-no gulit allowed there. Things will never be the same but I think it is possible to reach "OK" with time.
Posted 3/8/2009 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
Pete and White Beard, I finally went to bed at 5:30 AM and just woke up. I thought I would check to see who was on the site this morning and I am overwhelmed. I am sure that women feel guilt as well but as men we are trained and expected to be the provider and to do physical things. If I hear you both right, CP has taken part of that away. Now that we can't do the same things, we push to gain that feeling of worth and then pain comes in to remind us that we are less than a man. I am sure that some of our women friends on this site will say the same thing but with different tasks. Guilt does come in and tells us that our value as men has taken a spiral down. I am no Dr. Phil but I have been involved in counseling others for over 20 years as a pastor. I have used this many times, "Unmet expectations equals conflict". I have many conflicts due to CP. Even though I have counseled others, part of my struggle is handling the conflicts that emerge because of what I feel I should do, what I used to be able to do, and even what I think others expect me to do. As we can all declare, CP is an equal opportunity destroyer. Thanks guys for your posts. 

Geckogirl, I agree that it comes down to how we go about handling it. Many of us are still struggling with the how. Life has changed so much. We try to keep as much dignity as we can but have to accept boundaries we don't like. They say time heals all wounds, and I add but the scars remain. Thank you as well.

Posted 3/8/2009 7:54 PM (GMT 0)
Pete and WHite Beard,
I have felt exactly like you say, I'm not a man....but I have guilt as well for things I can't do anymore. I do alot of stuff I shouldn't and I end up suffering for it. Its so much easier to do myself (not really) but its degrading to me to need help opening a jar or reaching in to the washer etc.
I honestly think that when we reach the point of tears and self pity, when we get through it we are stronger! I don't know if this makes sense! You guys aren't weak you are human!!!!!!!!!!
We are all human, with a life sentence that is not easy to bear day in and day out!!
We have to believe in ourselves and love ourselves with our limitations to make our lives worth living!
WE HAVE TO FEEL SORRY FOR OURSELVES once in a while, we just have to!!
XXOO
Patti
Posted 3/8/2009 9:09 PM (GMT 0)
Patti,
How can I love or believe in myself when I act the way I do? I am constantly killing myself helping others around me, especially my family but also for friends and at work too. I beleive it's a kind of self imposed pennance for the guilt I hold. I work my butt off to put $$$ in the bank while I can because I know the inevidable is right around the corner for me. I am in trouble with my health now because I waited way too long to take care of myself. I somehow beilieve that I deserve to be in pain for all the stupid things I did when I was young which resulted in a broken everything! I am the one who is always there for my 82 year old Mother, not my two brothers or sister. Why? because I put her through hell w/ my behavior back then. All the worry, the middle of the night trips top the hospital, the long workless recovery periods when she was the one who took care of me. I can never pay her back for all she did for me back while she was still morning the death of my father. I hate myself for what I did to her. She watched the son she was most proud of go from a NCAA div. #2 National Champion swimmer to a no good for s**t lost in a world of drugs, alkahol, sex, fast motorcycles and broken bones. Yes, I took my Dad's death pretty hard too but I still have not forgiven myself for what I did to her and my whole family! I can't even remember the last time I had a vacation w/ my wife because I only get 2 weeks off a year. One week I drive my Mom and her cats (why she will not fly!) up to the North N.J. Mts. in May and get her lake house all opened up and ready for her to spend the summer there. The other week is in October I fly up and close the house down & winterize it and drive her back to Fla. How the hell can't I do this little bit after what I did to her! My constalation is I get to flyfish a couple times back in my home waters. I tell her thats the reason I have to take her! I know I have some old unresolved issues and a shrink is on my list of thing to fix Pete!
All for now, the tears are back>
God bless all Y'all and big big Hugzzzzzzzz to all!!!
Posted 3/8/2009 9:29 PM (GMT 0)
Dear Friends,
I cannot type all the words that are in my head now. Too many are coming too fast as I read all your posts. And the tears come, too. I truly love you all.

The guilt issue. I remembered something I want to forget. I don't have a spouse or children, but I have a goddaughter who now has her own family. They are struggling. I always thought by this time in my life I should have extra resources - not be rich or anything, just extra to help her out. I used to be able to take her out shopping for her birthday; now each year I struggle to find the money to buy her a gift. But the most important thing is I can't help her out with her children when I would so love to. She has a 5 year old and a 7 year old I love, but they're active and I can't keep up. They run around and I fear falling and tripping over toys. I can't offer to babysit. They have money troubles I can't help with.

And even worse - she is the director of a local government organization that helps the unemployed so I have had to ask HER for help. I just talked with her last night again, and I know she doesn't expect things of me, but I wanted to be able to do these things for her and now it's reversed. The sweetestr - bittersweet, really - is that she more than anyone I thnk is worried about me, hears the things I don't say, but is so overwhelmed with her own life she feels guilty she can't help me more! And she worries about me, I know, so I try to hide things from her, but somehow she knows. She knows when other adults in the family, who I've tried to tell how much I'm hurting, don't "get" how much I need their help. I've always been so strong it's seems it's very hard for people to really see that I've changed. That THIS TIME I'm not bouncing back like I have in younger years. And I have no friends; they left long ago - at least none that are local and can help.

I feel guilty because I wanted to be a pseudo-grandmother to my goddaughter. She's the closet thing I have to a daughter, and we've been close for years. Maybe I could deal with not being able to help her financially, but it's tough to even visit her and the kids anymore because the chairs there are so hard to sit in, and the kids are running around, along with their dog and cat. And I LOVE them all! That's what tears at me. I have a feeling everyone here understands.

I'll go read some other threads now, and cry a bit.

I think we needed a thread where we could cry....this is not self pity. This is grief, pure and simple.

Hugs to everyone,

PaLady
Posted 3/8/2009 10:21 PM (GMT 0)
PAlady, Pete, Patti, White Beard, Skeye, Chutz, and others, As I keep reading the posts, part of me is sorry for starting this thread. I know that there is healing in letting things out, crying, admitting, unbottling the things that have been stuffed away but there is pain. We all deal with physical pain and seek relief in so many ways. There is also this emotional pain that we don't always have an outlet for or even want to deal with. It molds us and transforms us as much as the physical pain. It becomes as much an identity as our CP does. Guilt, shame, inadequecy, regret, remorse, grief, feeling sorry for ourselves  and the list could and does go on. As I stated, part of me is sorry for creating this thread but the other part is very relieved to be able to let some things out and know that we are not alone. We beat ourselves up but it is not all our fault, we are victims of life. And know this, when we quit crying, we will go on and maybe with a little less emotional baggage. Thanks for all of you sharing your pain.  

Posted 3/8/2009 10:27 PM (GMT 0)
Fatherjohn,
Please try not to regret starting this thread! I had a hunch you might, but it's really allowed many of us to open and share things I think I (i'll only speak for myself here) have avoided. Yet I really think it's by moving through the forrest, the darkness, we get to the other side. I've been clinging to some bushes somewhere in the middle of it all, afraid ot the next steps. That unknown referred to earlier. And this thread is a huge help for me. I learn something new about others AND about myself by reading everyone's thoughts.

I am so grateful you started this!! Thank you!!

PaLady
Posted 3/8/2009 11:09 PM (GMT 0)
PALady it is hard, and it is lonely, I smiled when you mentioned the chairs at your Goddaughters house, my older daughter doesn't have a comfortable chair in her whole house! And when I go there it is over 500 miles away so I have stay there, I can't lay flat, she does not have a recliner, so I bring foam wedges with me, but they are not comfortable, but better than nothing. I cannot wait to come back home! and I feel guilty about not going to see her more often. And she would often comment about that! Now she has not spoken to me since I told her I filed for devorce, she pressed me for details but I would not give her any, it is none of her business, she talks to her mom most every day. The middle of Jan is the last time we spoke, I have tried to call her but have only been able to leave messages which she doesn't return. My youngest daughter who is a Nurse at Mayos I frequently talk with, and she does have a recliner for when I go there and visit, she is also close to 500 miles away!. It is funny how differently they are taking this, but is also funny how differently they have accepted me and my disability and pain. One has and on hasn't! Yes PALady I share in your tears!
Fatherjohn you have hit the nail on the head "unmet expectations equal conflict" and CP causes many conflicts! It can and often does remind me that I am less of, and not the man than I used to be! That is such a bitter pill to swallow! And it does cause me pain, conflict, and guilt! and I often wonder if it wasn't the root cause of ending 34 years of marriage? You are right CP is an equal opportunity destroyer, that shows no compassion, no mercy, and no leniency. " It is what it is"
Posted 3/8/2009 11:23 PM (GMT 0)
In the time it took me to write my last post FatherJohn and PALady had added more. I guess I am slow at typing. FatherJohn don't ever regret starting this thread, it has given me the opportunity to express some feeling I have long kept pent up inside. I Thank-You for supplying an avenue for me to release these pent-up feelings and emotions! And sharing in and with others their feelings and eomtions!, What a privilege, it is to to be a part this, to able to be so open and honest with so many people, and they all understand exactly what we are going through!
PALady I share in your thoughts completely this thread has also been an enormous help to me!

White Beard
Posted 3/9/2009 4:31 AM (GMT 0)
I wish I could just give all of you a big hug! I think we all need and deserve one. As hard as it is to talk about these things, I think that this is a good thing. Many of us can relate to each other's stories, and I'm sure that there are more people out there reading this & not adding their own thoughts, who now know that they too are not alone. Please don't regret starting this thread Fatherjohn, in fact I thank you for starting it. Maybe you should start the next fun thread, to counteract all this sadness?!

On the issue of guilt, I too feel guilt. Guilt for probably causing, or at the very least initiating the events leading up to, this whole mess in the first place, even though it was a complete, uncontrollable accident. Guilt for causing my family, and especially my parents, to be worried sick about me. Guilt for calling my parents hysterical, and burdening them with my troubles, because I feel like they are the only ones who will listen to me, and I am reassured by just knowing that they are there, at the other end of the phone line, even if they do not understand. Guilt for causing my parents to be severely struggling financially because of both the cost of my schooling and medical expenses. Guilt for not being able to be there for my friends. Guilt for having to have special accommodations in school, because my eye just cannot function well enough to get my work done. And the list goes on. I try my best not to feel guilty, but even when I seem to have it under control, it sits there looming in the back of my mind, wait to break free.

(((((((((hugs))))))))))))) to all my friends!
Skeye
Posted 3/9/2009 12:15 PM (GMT 0)
FatherJohn,
Do not regret starting this thread look at all of the feelings shared here, I want to thank you...it has opened up some of the feelings I have stuffed pretending they don't exist!
Pete we all have done things in our life that we consider mistakes or reasons why we are here in our situations today! Being a mother I can tell you there isn't anything that you could have done that your Mother would not forgive you for! My heart hurts for all of us!
Lately, I have been getting invited to all sorts of events from people who know my situation.... its been 9 years....when I say no they reply with WHY? I want to scream at them WHY you ask WHY? I guess they think that suddenly I'm better? I like the invites but asking WHY is cruel! I can hear their thoughts "oh well at least we asked her". They really don't understand what its like to count the minutes till the next pill can be taken legally!
(((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))
Patti
Posted 3/9/2009 12:15 PM (GMT 0)
FatherJohn,
Do not regret starting this thread look at all of the feelings shared here, I want to thank you...it has opened up some of the feelings I have stuffed pretending they don't exist!
Pete we all have done things in our life that we consider mistakes or reasons why we are here in our situations today! Being a mother I can tell you there isn't anything that you could have done that your Mother would not forgive you for! My heart hurts for all of us!
Lately, I have been getting invited to all sorts of events from people who know my situation.... its been 9 years....when I say no they reply with WHY? I want to scream at them WHY you ask WHY? I guess they think that suddenly I'm better? I like the invites but asking WHY is cruel! I can hear their thoughts "oh well at least we asked her". They really don't understand what its like to count the minutes till the next pill can be taken legally!
(((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))
Patti
Posted 3/9/2009 4:23 PM (GMT 0)
I wish you all could realize how much good you have done and will continue to do by sharing your deepest feelings about CP. For every member who posts there are usually 10 - 20 who don't, but there are certainly reading your words. Some may be members but many are lurkers. It's partly for those that keeps me posting and coming back. For those who are to shy or in too much pain and turmoil to share; for those who wish just some one person understood how they feel; for those who's pain is so private they dare not reveal it to anyone, including anonymous people on this forum.

Each one of you, and especially the men who have bared their souls, have made a positive difference in 10 people's lives....minimum! You have reached out and let others know it's OK to cry, it's OK to feel guilt, and it's OK to be human. I admire your courage! That alone should make you feel proud of who you are. NO, CP is not fair but it's what you make of it that makes you the wonderful men that you are, men who are able to admit they ARE human. That's the kind of person I admire! Please don't let the guilt take over. When it rears it's ugly head kick it right back down. You ARE a worthwhile person, you DO contribute to others and you CAN live a wonderful life. To me it looks like you just took the first steps right here for all of us to see.

Loves!
Chutzie <---proud to be your friend
Posted 3/9/2009 4:35 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks to all my good friend. This thread really took it out of me yesterday. I told Y'all things I haven't said to anyone. Yes, it was very hard to open up like that but in retrospect, I'm glad I did. I feel better now, like a big load was taken off me. I can't thank you enough for being there for me when I needed the support. YUZE GIZE are the BEST!!!!
Your Grateful friend,
Pete
Posted 3/9/2009 5:41 PM (GMT 0)
Chutzie

I owe you a very big THANK-YOU after all you are the one who introduced me to Healing Well and this CP forum! And for that I don't know how I can ever repay you!

I used to, and still do post a little at a sleep apnea forum, because of my sleep apnea!, But I have been suffering with CP since 97, and for me, most or all of those years, CP has been a very private and untalked about companion of mine. It is companion that other people didn't want to hear about, and one that I alway tried to keep hidden.

What a Blessing it is for me, to be able to come to this site and this forum and to be with all of you! A place that I don't have to hide my CP! I don't have to put on my happy face and pretend that I am alright, while all the time I am grimacing, and screaming inside because of the pain! To come and be with all of you and know that you acknowledge my pain and what I am feeling and I know that you understand and it is alright for me too feel that way! To be with all of you, and to be invited in to your lives to share in your thoughts and feelings and experiences with CP.

I Thank-You All! and Especially Chutzie!
White Beard
Posted 3/9/2009 8:39 PM (GMT 0)
You know I have been very quiet about this thread and for very good reason. Not only do I, myself suffer with CP but I have a husband that has been suffering silently (yes ever so silently building into a volcano of horrible) in pain. He tries so hard to keep everything inside and I know why, now that I have seen the inner workings of the male mind from White Beard....Fatherjohn and others on here. It is because he feels that he has to keep strong for me or maybe he can't break down that he can't show his true pain. But little does he know that I see it. I see the pain on his face....in his eyes.....and in his movements when it gets real bad. He tries to hide it by telling me some story that he needs to see the chiropractor or...that he wrenched his back at work but deep down I know that its from his original injury that his back is messed up. I know that his back did not heal the way it should have and that there still is a herniated disc there. But he won't go into the doctor and I know much of it is because of what I have gone through over the years. He doesn't want to loose the years of work time that he has ahead from this injury and thinks that if he just toughs it out that he can get through it. But I see a decline in his health and it worries me. I think that my worries are well warranted but who knows.

anyway that is my two cents.

Hugs

Scarred
Posted 3/10/2009 1:29 AM (GMT 0)
Scarred

You are probably right, infact I am sure you are right. Your husband is a very lucky man to have a wife that is so preceptive, and cares enough, to see and recognize what he probably would never willingly want to tell you or talk to you about!. After all we (men) are suppose to be strong, we are suppose to be the bread winners, the providers, we are not suppose to be weak and broken down! Yes your worries are probably warranted and justified, but know that he acts that way because he wants to be strong for you!

I think your two cents worth, is actually priceless!
I wish you both only the best!
Good Luck to You

White Beard
Posted 3/10/2009 5:01 AM (GMT 0)
I am still in awe of the posts. After dealing with another night of little sleep (don't let it show because you have to be strong) I went off to work not knowing what was facing me. I like Pete was still recovering from the weekend. There was a cleansing that took place but also I was exhausted. Very little sleep, emotionaly drained but determined to do what I am supposed to do. I was supposed to be off Friday, Saturday and Sunday. All three days I was called in to deal with emergencies and some that thought they were having an emergency. What pain, just deny it, it is not my identity anyway right. I hurt all day and I don't like to take my pain meds at work but was forced to. All the time I was reflecting back on this thread and the deep and exposing truths that came out. Then I was blindsided by one of my students in a meeting. I was accused of doing something that was totally unfounded but it was done in front of the whole student body. Yes, it has impact on my wife who works with me and the hurt ran deep. I won't say anymore right now as I am in a deep battle and extremely hurt. The accusation has already been 100%retracted but the damage done. I am sorry to mix this.    
Posted 3/10/2009 6:26 AM (GMT 0)
fatherjohn
Yes this week was quite a weekend, writing about such deeply held thougthts and emotions is not easy, and sleep does not come easy after having all those deeply buried feelings come bubbling up to the surface! It must be doubly hard for you, since you are still working, it must be difficult for you to have to go to work after going through a sleepless weekend.! I do hope your situation what ever it is works out OK for you!

I also was up allot this weekend, I over did Saturday and I am still paying the royal price for it! I Hurt! I tend to pace the floor when I am in pain, or sit in the rocking chair and rock like crazy till the percocet kicks in! Of course my situation does not help my CP either. I do wish that it was all over with, and the house was sold and I could at least get on with my life, what ever that is going to be. There is so much uncertainty for me, and I don't handle uncertainty very well! It causes me stress, and stress increases my pain! Tomorrow night I go for the second time ( Last Tuesday was my first) to a devorce support group meeting, at a church 40 miles away! ( Nothing is close by where I live!) Every week they cover a different topic, I kind of started in the middle, but I will catch the first ones, when it starts over in May, anyway tomorrows topic is Forgiveness, how to forgive your spouse and how to forgive yourself! How appropraite is that? Will forgiveness get rid of my guilt, and thus ease my pain? And what if I am not ready to forgive? Which I am not! It is late and sleep evades me again, and I hurt inside and out, I am rambling, I have to get up and walk some!
Good Night!
White Beard
Posted 3/10/2009 6:39 AM (GMT 0)
Hello, Friends,
I have been out most of the day (working the few hours I still work and hunting for a deal on a clothes dryer!), but I had to come back to HW, and especially this thread to at least read.

I don't have much energy for posting here tonight, but fatherjohn I have a hunch I could understand what you might have had to face. Not the details necessarily, but it is hard to be the helper all the time when you're suffering, and your pain needs to be hidden and your total focus on the needs of others. And you didn't get a break all weekend, to boot. Just know I'm thinking of you.

Thinking of all of you, dear friends,

PaLady
Posted 3/10/2009 7:14 AM (GMT 0)

White Beard, Thanks for the posts and sincerity. I was so exhaused when I returned home tonight that all I wanted was to go to bed. Another sleeples night, so I got up so at least my wife would get some sleep. In a way, I feel very blessed. I do still work, at least 50 to 60 hours a week while listed as totally and permanantly disabled. I deny the pain and use work as a distraction from it. It sounds like the topic for tomorrow night was well planned. I hope and pray that you find healing from the hurts of a lost relationship. That healing, which is wrapped up in forgiveness, (especially forging yourself) will help direct and equip you to what is next on your journey.

Palady, Right now to be hurt by someone that I have poured so much life into is extremely difficult. With the emotional and physical pain, all I can do is sit here in solitude and let the tears flow. I have cried more in the last 3 days than I can ever remember. I can't even imagine another sleepless night and the thought of going back tomorrow. I won't ramble but thanks for caring.   

Posted 3/10/2009 8:16 AM (GMT 0)
Fatherjohn,
Well, I'm back up. Wish tv was working its magic. After reading your post I'm hoping maybe you'll think about taking a day off tomorrow. A "sick" day for technicality sake; a wellness day in reality. I know it's hard, but it truly sounds like you need a break (and why on earth wouldn't you?).
You've more than earned it.

((((((((((((((Fatherjohn)))))))))))))))

PaLady
p.s. White Beard, I keep meaning to say how grateful I am that you joined us. You've brought a lot to the forum in such a short time.

Post Edited (PAlady) : 3/10/2009 2:20:04 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/10/2009 12:15 PM (GMT 0)
Whitebeard, forgiveness is an interesting topic...during my work years I was able to attend many seminars by Cancer Specialists, Emotional and Physical Healers alot of ALternative practitioners. Forgiveness is an interesting topic, I was left with many thoughts....please share with us your perceptions of this topic! Could be the start of another thread, that would help all of us!
My thoughts and prayers are with you Fatherjohn, I hope knowing that we care helps a little! I agree with PA take the day off and take care of you!
XXOO
Patti
Posted 3/11/2009 6:50 AM (GMT 0)
Good evening, friends,
I honeslty don't have much to add to this thread tonight, but it's so valuable I don't want it to get lost so I thought I'd bump it back to the first page.

PaLady
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