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No More Methadone For Me...

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Posted 4/14/2009 1:45 AM (GMT 0)

 

I went to the Dr. today to have an EMG done...Long story short, I ended up having my regular "follow-up" visit today instead of waiting until the 20th (next Monday). I told my Dr. about my Diabetes and the medication I am taking...and about how it seems like my Methadone isn't even in my system anymore and I'm having NO relief at all... I then started to cry..Boo Hoo!! I hate to cry in front of my Dr.

 

He did the normal "reflex" stuff...then went over my MRI results with me...I have bulging at the level above both places where I previously had surgeries and "Bone Spurs"...my Stenosis is getting worse, I guess it's getting more narrow. He said "No Significant" Changes....Why do they say that?  It's significant to me darnit!!!  Okay, I am calm..

 

So, I asked about changing my meds to something that would work just as long as the methadone, but better... He wrote me MS Contin 60 mg. twice a day...and I am to keep taking my Oxycodone 15 mg. for the BT pain....

 

I have had MS Contin once...and it was for a short time, a long time ago...So I don't really remember it.  Does anyone take it?  How well does it work for you?  I am scared that I will have some withdrawls from changing from the methadone...Am I nuts?  Please tell me it will be okay...

 

Pamela, I sent u an email....check it.

 

Me.

Posted 4/14/2009 2:11 AM (GMT 0)
All I know is this:

Several years ago I was taking Oxycodone. A lot of it. It wasn't helping!

I told my general practioner and he prescribed Avinza. It's a really strong
Morphine that you take once a day.

OMG ... Hel l broke loose. The Avinza didn't do a thing and I couldn't take anything
but ONE Avinza a day. I was in soooooo much pain.

I called ER and they said they couldn't do one thing. My doctor was out of town
and didn't have anyone stand in.

What happened? He sent me to a pain doctor who put me back on ever decreasing
Oxycodone. I went into withdrawels. Not fun.

All I know: It's very hard to change from Oxycodone to another strong
Opiod. Very. I hope you don't have this problem but if you do, just keep
your doctor informed. It sounds like he understands your situation, Rhonda.
I do realize our problems are not the same -- but on the other hand, they
could be.

I answered e-mail.

Pamela

We have matching back problems. Bone spurs are awful!
Posted 4/14/2009 3:18 AM (GMT 0)
That morphine dose is very small compared to 120mg of methadone. Also I dont know what it is about methadone, but whenever I did a quick switch over to another narcotic I always went into withdrawals even though I would be taking something else, but I never did that when I switch from other pain meds. But thats just how it effected me, But everyone is diffrent. When I went from methadone 60mg daily to mscontin, I had to have the mscontin 100mg 3 times a day. And dont get me started on Kadian, that form of morphine is nothing but a joke to me, but morphine itself has never been good in covering my pain. I now when I was taking methadone, I was having severe migraines and I was taking fioricet for the headche pain and I would get sick, and come to find out, the barbituate in the fioricet was blocking the methadone from working, and since methadone was the only thing that helped my all back and muscle pain, but it didnt cover my migraines, and fioricet was the only thing that helped my migraines, so I always had to choose between the pain and migraines in which one I wanted to treat, it wasnt a fun situation for me. But thank God since I've been on the Lyrica and Cymbalta, my migraines have almost disappeared, and when I do get one, it's nowhere near as aweful as it use to be, I can actually somewhat function through them.


hellokitty

-hellokitty
Posted 4/14/2009 3:39 AM (GMT 0)

Hello Kitty,

Now I'm concerned...I asked him if I would go through withdrawls switching from methadone to MS Contin and he said NO... I also asked him if the dose (60 mg. 2X daily) would be about the same as 120 mg. of Methadone a day...he said YES.. I have a very high tolerance for opiates, that's why I went on Methadone in the first place... He did say if I feel like it's not enough all I have to do is call and they will change the dosage...

Man o Man...I am worried about this now.  Maybe I shouldn't have asked to be changed in the first place... Okay Rhonda....breathe.....breathe.....slowly....breathe...... smhair

I'm better now.  Just a mild anxiety attack.  Maybe I should have asked about Xanax as well?

I think I'll be okay, I mean, he wouldn't do this if he didn't think I would be okay and it would work?  Right?  He is smarter then I am, he knows what he's talking about?

I haven't taken one yet, I had already taken my Methadone for part of the day so I went ahead and took the other 6 a little earlier.. So should I start in the morning?  Or wait until later?  Mid-morning? 

Anybody else been on MS Contin and care to share their experiences?

Me

Posted 4/14/2009 4:18 AM (GMT 0)
Rhonda: That's a question for the doctor. We both take a lot of Methadone so it's
just hard to know. As we are learning, methadone just isn't like other things.

I never totally believe my doctors. I don't think they know all they should. That's
why I seek various opinions. I have always done that. (It's the ADD in me. I
scan the horizon. Always)

You take 15 mg oxycodone as needed? How often do you need it? (You wrote
that in purple up above this post)

Pamela

I have an AA degree in addiction. It was so long ago I don't remember much.
I took it because at one time I thought I was an alcoholic. It didn't turn out
that way. I got so scared, I quit. Best course I ever took, I think.
Posted 4/14/2009 4:48 AM (GMT 0)
i havent posted here latley, i lost all my support, cause of the move but getting back into my pain groups so sorry! i'am sitting here with no pain ha! i have been going to OHSU, but their is nothing else they can do for me. so still no diagose for me. it made me mad i just was so sure they could put a diagose on i. so i still stay busy the dr.s have my pain undercontroll today so that is good. and i got a chronic pain meeting in my church its small right now. but is helping me! we read the 12 steps at the first of the meeting and go around the room thei was one girl thier in pain. its nice to be back!!! prepackey
Posted 4/14/2009 4:54 AM (GMT 0)
Uniquelyme,
The doctor didn't give you a schedule for changing over? The methadone has a long half life, so I would call the doctor back in the morning and ask him when you are to start taking the MS Contin instead of the Methadone. Methadone can stay in the system somewhere between 72 and 120 hours I believe. I can look it up for you if you'd like?
When I went off Methadone, I had to not take any meds for two days, and then slowly start with my new med, allowing for time for the Methadone to leave my system.
I wouldn't start the MS Contin, at least until I'd spoken to the doctor, not the nurse or nurse practioner either. She may not be up to date on Methadone and we all know that it is not like other opiates.
Good luck,
sandi
Posted 4/14/2009 6:01 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Rhonda,

Whenever I switch pain medications, my doc starts me out on the new one at a dosage lower than the "equivalent dosage," and then we work our way up if it's not effective. Maybe this is what he is doing with you as well? Just a guess, but I don't think that 120 mg of MSContin is equivalent to 120 mg methadone, or it would be a 1:1 ratio. I'm sure you can find the conversion factor online, but I highly doubt that it is a 1:1 ratio. I'd talk to your doctor as well to clarify both the plan for the transition & the plan in terms of reaching a therapeutic dosage. I sure hope this new medication helps you & your transition is smooth and easy!

Skeye
Posted 4/14/2009 10:37 AM (GMT 0)

Different meds work on differing receptors in your brain and methadone is one of those that hit on one that nothing else does in the opiod families so in saying that you feel the decrease in the methadone levels in the way of w/ds sorry but that is a fact.

Given the chemical make-up of methadone and its longevity in your system it may be a few days before you notice but you will notice.

Unfortunately the ratio from meth to morph is 1:10 and in saying that there is NO way that you could make that ratio realistic without the morhine dose becoming lethal. Thus the reason most all Docs dose low and go up until the methadone is out of your system virtually and the morphine is in and you become accomadated to the morphine.

It usually isnt a pleasent ride to go from one to the other but it can be done and eventually the symptoms of w/d will abate and good pain control can be achieved,slow getting there.

I hate to see folks put on methadone untill all else has been tried and failed since going back is more difficult then going onto it.

Of course knowing the chemistry and how methadone works says all there is to say on why you dont have w/ds from going onto it from other opiates,thus the way it was designed and the reason it was,and how it works for heroin addcition as well as other opiate addictions. It was designed to prevent the w/d symptoms from occuring in the 1st place.

I can say you and your Doc need to work closely here and he needs to understand hopefully the extent of how this titration process works from meth to morph and sadly enough alot of Docs dont understand it.

Keep a journal this is the best way for him to know how much pain your in and what symptoms your experiencing and hoping he doesnt mind several calls and visits from you and that he is open minded enough to be ready to titrate you readily until your comfortable and then he can back down when the worst of the w/ds are over and all you need to do is deal with the pain issues.

Sorry I know this isnt what you were going to want to hear but I kind of like to know up front what I am dealing with.

Posted 4/14/2009 2:08 PM (GMT 0)
PrePackey: How about starting a new Introduction post, and reintroduce yourself to those of us who have never met you?

angel8: What are 'w/d' and 'w/ds'? Is that "With/Drawal" and "With/DrawalSymptoms"?

Sorry, I'm not acclimated to terms...and those didn't seem quite right.

Pamela: 'AA Degree in Addiction'? What does that refer to?

Wouza! This thread is mixed more than a bowl of smooth ice cream.
Posted 4/14/2009 2:14 PM (GMT 0)
turn  Thanks to everyone who answered my post...It helps so much to know that you care enough, even through your own pain, to think about my problems...So, again thanks.

 

I have an idea about what is about to happen...and it may not be very nice.  I know that 120 mg. Morphine does NOT equal 120 mg. Methadone..I guess I was hoping he knew that too.  Maybe he does know what he's doing.  He did tell me if I have any WD symptoms to call him and he would increase the Moprhine.  I am kinda wishing I hadn't pushed to change meds... But...I still have the Oxycodone 15 mg. for BT....I can take 4 a day.  So, that should help if I get into any trouble...Don't you think?

 

My PM Dr. has been treating low back pain for a very long time..before any other Docs did it. At least around Nashville. So, I think he knows what he's doing.  The only thing is that he may not be highly educated about Methadone. Not alot of Dr.'s even give that....even now. And it has such a stigma about it... When my new Primary Doc saw that I was taking methadone he was like..."Why do you take it?", "Why so much?", "Have you tried anything else before this?".  I feel like I should have a computer "chip" implanted in my hand for every question they ask over and over again...and update it once a year.  I could be rich!!!

 

So, I haven't taken one of the new pills yet, I had taken my Methadone yesterday and I did not want to mix them...Bad things could happen... and I think I will wait until tomorrow to give the methadone at least one full day to start to leave my system...That was a great idea. I may not feel all that great, but it will be better in the long run.

 

Thanks again, and I'll keep you all posted.

Me;>

Posted 4/14/2009 2:58 PM (GMT 0)

uniquelyme

Maybe your Doctor does know exactly what he is doing? But maybe he just isn't sharing it with you, I mean you did say that he said to call him and he would increase your morphine if need be. Maybe he know that Methadone stays in your system longer and that is why he started you off on a lower dose of MS Contin? He might just be trying to keep you on as low a dose as possible of the MS Contin? and will increase it only as you call him and let him know that it needs to be increased? I mean I don't know your doctor and how he does things, but if he has always treated you well before, I would at least give him the benefit of the doubt and not try to jump to any conclusions before hand. I understand how stressful it must be for you, but as I said if this Doctor has always treated you well before, and you  trust and have faith in him, then why have doubts now? Remember he has been treating you and he knows you much better than any of us do! And everyone reacts differetnly to medications, and if he knows how you react, then he might be the best judge of what to do. Admittedly I might be all wrong, but only you know what type of Doctor he is and if you trust him or not, I do not know what you think or feel about this Doctor, only you know that!

I do wish you well Rhonda and how everything works out for you!

Good Luck to You!

White Beard

Posted 4/14/2009 4:03 PM (GMT 0)

White Beard,

I have always liked the Doctors at this office, I have been going there for over 4 years, and have seen 3 different Dr.'s and PA's...The Dr. I started out with was the Founder, then I went to a PA ( I really had a good relationship with her), but she left to go somewhere where she made more $$$, she tried to get me to go with her, but her new place was more expensive...Then I went with my current Dr., he is a pioneer in the field of low back treatment, been doing it longer then any other in the state of Tennessee from what I read... He is pretty good, only been with him for a few months.

If I said I wasn't worried, I'd be lying, because I am.  But, I have to trust him until I have reason not to...So, here we go!!!!

ME.

Posted 4/14/2009 4:13 PM (GMT 0)
Angel thats an excellent post on Methadone. It can be an excellent pain control drug and obviously only for long term use. I agee with you as it being a last resort medication because of trying to wean off to get on a different pain med. I read an article recently at the FDA site on Methadone. It said if a person took it and went off their dose for three days in a row and then resumed the same dosage there is a high probability of overdose for the patient. Gawd that is just plain scary to me. I was tried on it and not able to tolerate it and I am so very glad too. And the fact of it half life staying in the system so long, many PM patients are not aware of this. Its one of those drugs that I think a patient and the dr really need to sit down and openly discuss the pros & cons before ever writing a script for it. The bad thing for many of us is these drs not being edicuated enough in medications. .........Susie
Posted 4/14/2009 4:16 PM (GMT 0)

uniquelyme

Then I can understand your concern, that really does put you in an uncomfortable situation! You really haven't had a chance to develop a good solid Doctor/Patient relationship, I guess the only thing I can say is, be careful and monitor your pain really closely and definitely call him if you start having any pain. Please don't let it go, and hope it will get better, because as you well know it is harder to treat pain once it really gets bad, and much easier to keep it under control if one keeps on top of it to begin with! I hope it works out for you, and of course as you know we are all here for you!

Good Luck

White Beard

Posted 4/14/2009 5:13 PM (GMT 0)

I went to a drug conversion site and I didn't like what I saw... It said that the conversion from Methadone to Morphine is 3:1...That means, according to this, nI would have to take 360 mg. of Morphine to == 120 mg. Methadone!!!

Are they wanting me to OD?

Now, I am worried..

Me.

Posted 4/14/2009 5:32 PM (GMT 0)
Rhonda just try to stay calm and do what your doc says. Like White Beard said if anything pops up get a hold of your dr. From what you have posted about your dr I feel like he will be there for you. Sounds like you have a good one. I am sure this is very scary for you, but don't wear yourself out on the what if's, that will eat your lunch and not do you any good at all. Just remember everyone's chemistry is different.

Keep us posted....Susie
Posted 4/14/2009 7:19 PM (GMT 0)
Rhonda,
I agree with Susie here, although I know it's not easy. The other thing I was thinking is that you don't necessarily need to ask your doctor for help with the pain but with withdrawal symptoms. There may be other avenues that can be tried to help easy you through this.

Plus, doing anything that soothes you will help.

And Angel, I agree, that was a great explanation.

PaLady
Posted 4/14/2009 7:39 PM (GMT 0)
Rhonda,
Did you call him and ask him when and how you are supposed to cut out the methadone and start the MS Contin? It is not out of the norm to ask a question like that, especially with a switch from methadone to MS Contin.
The best option for getting direct answers would be to ask him.
Sandi
Posted 4/14/2009 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
Angel,

Thank you for your explanation about Methadone. smhair

I've always been afraid of it. And, of course, more so now.

I am not considering the pain pump until I have an MD talk to me about
the dangers of Methadone with a pump. He/she is going to have to talk
low and slow so I understand every single word.

I have read that once on Methadone. Always on Methadone.

Not too long ago I went to the ER with terrible pain. Pain that needed
opiod medication. I didn't get any because I was on Methadone.

The doctor who first prescribed Methadone did his work out of a well known,
well respected pain clinic. I guess people from all over go to this place.
Now that I've moved away from him, my new pain doctor continues to
prescribe it but I'm just not so sure he understands its effects.

My doctor specializes in pain pumps and he does not prescribe methadone
to his patients who aren't ready for it. He prescribes Oxycondone .. things
like that.

Pamela

Rhonda, e-mail follows.

Post Edited (Pamela Neckpain) : 4/14/2009 2:43:19 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/14/2009 10:48 PM (GMT 0)
If methadone blocks opioids, what about morphine?
Posted 4/14/2009 11:44 PM (GMT 0)
Tony,

I take Morphine Sulfate 30 mg. 3X a day for between doses. I don't think
it does anything. Maybe there's a placebo effect?

Of course, Placebos don't work if you know what they are. Hmmmmm


Pamela rolleyes
Posted 4/15/2009 12:14 AM (GMT 0)

 

 

Tony & Pamela,

I have been on Methadone for many years and have studied it thoroughly...When I first started taking it I wasn't taking anything else, just the methadone.  Then the Doc had me on Lortab 10 for BT pain.. I had taken it before and it gave me energy and a feeling of Euphoria... When I took it with the Methadone I didn't "feel" a thing.  But it did help with the pain.  Then of course it stopped working and he switched me to the Oxycodone 15 mg.  Still didn't "feel" a thing.  So, as far as Methadone "blocking" other opiates, I think it actually blocks the Euphoric effect.. At least that's the way I understand it.

 

And NO, he didn't mention any kind of a "schedule" for changing over... I guess I should have asked, but at the time I was crying from the intense pain and feeling kinda "Ookie"...Pardon the term... shakehead shocked (this is what "ookie" looks like)

 

So I guess I'll see how I feel tonight.  For the past 2 weeks I have been having the worst time at night...feeling like I am going through w/d's when I know I'm not...sweating, aching, kicking my legs all night long...that kinda stuff....If it doesn't happen tonight I'll be amazed yeah turn (this is how I look when I am amazed)...

 

Me.

 

PALady, how are you doing?

Posted 4/15/2009 12:42 AM (GMT 0)
Just remember that if the morphine doesnt work out and you end up going back to methadone, and you have been off of the methadone for atleast 3 days, your tolerence to the methadone will be lowered, so yo have to start from a lower dose of methadone and work your way back up again cause it can cause overdose, this is a reason why theirs also so many overdoses on methadone, it's a scary med but can be very effective in treating pain if taken right, but the doctor must know everything their is to know on methadone, cause its a very unique medicine, very much like the suboxone I take. But 360mg of mscontin sounds about right, like I said, I was taking just 60mg of methadone when I tried out the mscontin and I started on 60mg every 8 hours then we went up to 100mg every 8 hours, which worked alot more better, and I stayed their for about a year. But morphine is known to be one of the most constipating of all the narcotics out their so be careful about that. Just dont let yourself suffer, and if you feel any withdrawal symptoms, it would just most likely be the methadone leaving your system, and it takes about a week for the morphine to take any effect when taken after methadone, so even upping the morphine might not get rid of the discomfort til all the methadone is out of your system, and that can take a while since methadone stores up in your body fat and other parts of the body. It might be good to ask your doctor about doing short taper on the methadone while slowly upping the morphine. Also once I switched from methadone over to the patches and had to be tapered with the methadone also (I have been back and forth between all the narcotics in 6 year period due to intolerence or insurance problems or doctor changes). It's a hard thing with methadone, it can be so confusing while taking that med cause all the new research has been coming out lately cause of all the deaths, and they're finding out that alot of the deaths from methadone ws not cause of people abusing it, but because of doctors not knowing exactly how it works on the body so people end up overdosing cause they didnt know better.

-hellokitty
Posted 4/15/2009 12:52 AM (GMT 0)

Hello Kitty, I am going to put a call into my Doc tomorrow morning.... I should have asked these ?? yesterday, but I wasn't in the best of shape.. So, I took my first Morphine pill today at aournd 10 am... I am starting to feel some pain, increasing every min. The good thing about Methadone was that it really did help with the pain for a long period of time..at least until recently... I really hope this Morphine helps... I can already tell that it doesn't last for 12 hours..Why do they tell u that?  It is not true...Maybe 8-10, but not 12....

I still have a few more hours to wait until I can take another one.  I couldn't get my Oxycodone filled yesterday...pharmacy didn't have any.  So, I have to wait until tomorrow and go Downtown Nashville to get them... Boy do I wish I had them now... shakehead cry

I never really understood people talking about waiting to take another pill...and how their pills didn't last as long as they should...Methadone never really has that problem.... But now I understand....I am now one of you.>>> turn

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