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Posted 11/8/2012 9:24 PM (GMT 0)
My wife had her MRI this morning.  She was not scheduled to have answer till Monday.  However, the MRI dr called her doctor with bad news.  She has severely ruptured discs, L3 and L4.  She is being re-ferred to a neruosurgeon asap.

What is she in for?  What might happen?  Is this guaranteed to be back surgery?  If so, how long might she be out, and what is her prognosis long term for recovery.

This is new ground for me, I need some help on what we are facing.

THanks,

David in SC

Posted 11/8/2012 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
They tried steroid injection shots with me first to see if they would help. They didn't and I did have the discs removed.

I am so sorry to hear this news. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

Michele
Posted 11/8/2012 9:43 PM (GMT 0)
Hey there...

I know it's a rough time...but take a deep breath:)...

Also...a disc is the material in between the vertebrae...So it sounds like she has one herniated disc they are concerned about between L3-L4.

I would make sure she gets into see at least 2-3 different Board Certified Neurosurgeons to make sure if she needs surgery. One should never rush to do this.

Many times peoples pain will subside within a month or more..And the statistics are that close to 90% of all herniations improve by six months with concserbative/non surgical means.

I've been living with severe herniations for a few years now...Two in my lumbar and one in my lower cervical/upper thoracic. My Neurosurgeon and I are putting off any surgery as long as we can. My last flare was very bad for those few weeks but slowly I am back to my regular pain levels/twinges.

The other tests to get is an EMG and/or an NCS (Nerve Conduction Study)....The key is not the pain but if she is losing any nerve function. So the MRI is just one of the tools used to determine what is going on.

I know I've been away from the boards a bit but I think I've been reading that your wife has had this recent flare for just a few weeks now?.

So that is why I would personally make sure that she gets more than one opinion and from Drs.(Neuros) who do not know one another..

There are also other things to try before needing surgery which is traction, injections, physical therapy...etc..

And if it comes out to be that she needs surgery..many of us here have been through it and millions of others....Try not to let it scare her/you too much. Using us as an example may not be the best option as many of us have chronic pain...

There are millions of people who have successful fusion surgeries and are doing absolutely great...

My mom had hers (two levels) back in the 80's and only started having some pain again just a few years ago.

So...if/when you see a few Drs. and see if surgery is truly the answer...many of us can help you all prepare...

The one thing that I have also been concerned about for you is how much of this you've been taking on yourself...PLEASE use those wonderful family members and friends you have...even church members to help out....

It will not do your wife any good to have you running ragged....

Post Edited (Snowbunny21) : 11/8/2012 5:19:44 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/8/2012 10:16 PM (GMT 0)
Hey David,

SB pretty much covered it re: herniated discs.... there are things to be tried before surgery, including injections and everything else mentioned.

But I know you both must be so stressed that it wasn't just a nerve flare-up and received this news.

Hopefully others will have more input...

Has she had any improvements pain-wise w/ the new meds, etc?

--Tina
Posted 11/8/2012 10:38 PM (GMT 0)
Hi David, first... relax, this could go on for a while, or it could subside a bit, just a guessing game their. Next, no more chiropractic treatments (just my opinion) I've heard from 3 different specialists that chiropractic does more harm than good with bad discs. Next, I'd get her in to see a PM soon, they're the ones that do the lumbar injections in my experience. Also, I think it would be wise to utilize some of your own contacts, and ask your oncologist who he recommends as a back specialist, I'm sure he knows a few. I would stay away from any TV docs, they just want to do surgery.

David, just my opinion here, I worked for a few more months after finding out I had two herniated discs. I know now, that had I not done so, I might have been able to a avoid surgery, there's really no way of knowing, because a second accident at work made my back worse than it was. I don't know if short term disability is an option for her, but if it is, I think she needs to give her back some time to heal, with some light PT, and possibly the lumbar injections, she could be back with no surgery, at least for now.

The other thing I think that would benefit you both, I would email your oncologist, and let him know what's going on, and see if he can get you guys some assistance grom a nurse or someone a few days a week, until your wife is back on her feet. Just a suggestion. Good luck to both of you. You'll both continue to be in my prayers. Take care.


PS, if MRS Purgatory ever decides she'd like to, I'm sure she could also find some comfort and support from the forum as the rest of us have.
Posted 11/8/2012 10:52 PM (GMT 0)
After reading Matt's post...I just wanted to ask if Mrs. P is doing Chiropractic adjustments??? If so...I absolutely agree she needs to stop them immediately!!! That could be one of the biggest reasons she is having a herniated disc as well as severe pain...

It has nothing to do with whether I believe in Chiros or not...I just know without a doubt that there isn't a reputable Board Certified Neurosurgeon out there that would recommend Chiro treatments for someone with possible herniations which they should have known all along there was a strong possibility that is what was going on with her back.

Anyway...just wanted to pop back in and just put in my opinion about that...LOL..

Post Edited (Snowbunny21) : 11/8/2012 5:07:42 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/8/2012 11:17 PM (GMT 0)
David,

Definitely no more chiropractor!!! I had a severely ruptured disk at L5-S1 The neurosurgeon took one look at it and scheduled the surgery. I had a laminectomy and was up and walking the same day. It took 21 years before it went bad again.

I'm sure things are different now and I definitely agree with the second opinion, but don't be afraid of the surgery if she needs it. If she does need surgery, recovery time depends on what type of surgery she has.

My laminectomy kept me out of work for six weeks. For the first week or so i was not allowed to lift so much as a plate of food. I had to be lying down on my side or be up walking. No sitting no standing in one place. If it's a fusion it could take up at a year to heal.

Either way, you are going to need some help. A nurse to check in on you two. Maybe hire someone to make meals and clean?
Posted 11/8/2012 11:18 PM (GMT 0)
Just to add one.more thing, my doc put me on glucosamine chondrite to help save my knees from my gait. Also, a walker is way better than a cane on the low back, it evens out the pressure, I agree with SB about the rolly walker that she mentioned on previos threads, very awesome, and handy when in the leu, I put a tv tray on mine, and used it for transporting meals, drinks, ect to my bed.
Posted 11/9/2012 12:10 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for bringing that up Matt!! Yes...The Rollator (I bought mine at Sam's club for $130)...is a Godsend!

She should be using this instead of a cane because that is not reliable as well as it keeps you off balance. Same thing with using you or anyone else to lean on...With the Rollator she can stand up as straight as possible and have a very steady item to hold on to so she won't fall. And as I mentioned, you can turn around and sit on it.

It was what I used for the few weeks until I could walk on my own again this past July with my flare.

Please think about getting this asap as I read your other posts and there is no reason she should be falling/fear falling as there is something she can use to help her if her leg goes out..
Posted 11/9/2012 12:19 AM (GMT 0)
Knew I could count on my family here for some good advice.

For starters, the chiro was a one time shot. She did that against my advice. A nursing friend of my wife, husband was the chiro. Now that she knows her true dx, she will not agree to any more chiro stuff.

We are waiting for the appointment with the neuro surgeon. Hoping to find out tommorow the "when" part. I looked up the guy on the net, he is really one of the top ones in our part of SC, read a lot of reviews from patients, etc.

Also quickly researched slip discs, and it looks like surgery is considered the last choice, not the first choice. Hope that is true. I am sure it will take the neru surgeon to look at the MRI's and determine the depth of damage and any risks. I would not hesitate to get a 2nd opinion, if he takes one looks and pushes for early surgery.

She has long term disability, but not short. She has already used up two weeks of PTO hours just getting to this point. I am fully disabled, its not like I can jump out and suddenly get a job and be able to work. Its going to be a tough situation if she is not able to work. I am on Medicare, so I am covered, but she needs to work to sustain her Bluecross insurance.

This happened at work, doing a normal nurse duty, so I don't see why this can't be a Workmen's Comp situation, which would help, I believe. She is talking to her superiors about this aspect. She was bending down, changing a leg dressing on a patient when her back gave way. Sounds work related to me.

As far as me - after all the running around with her on the MRI, I had a major pain breakdown. Barely got her back home safely in bed. Took my meds, and I crashed for 2 1/2 hours into a deep but disturbed sleep. When I woke up, it was only then that she told me about the MRI dx. I was stunned and shocked, as I was hoping it was just a pinched nerve.

I then had to go out and run a whole slew of errands, including picking up some new and much stronger pain meds for her. Now that the MRI dr. told her dr that she was definitely in severe pain, I am hoping they will be more willing to keep her pain under proper control.

Thanks for the tips and advice, I will be checking back and reading every one of them. Appreciate every one's input and help. I feel a bit overwhelmed with this bad news, and I feel so weak and inadequate to help her properly, especially if she ends up needing back surgery, long recovery, PT, etc.

I can barely get through most days with my own ailments, never expected this to happen.

david
Posted 11/9/2012 12:35 AM (GMT 0)
The thing with bad backs/necks (degenerative disc disease) is that it is actually very common. Pretty much starting in late 20's...our discs can start drying out (even more so if people smoke) and we can develop bone spurs, or other problems..And then those of us with very physical jobs like your wife has...it's so important to protect their backs.

So it may sound really scary...but once you start looking things up a bit more and when you all speak with the Neurosurgeon...they will let you know that millions of people can have issues like this and as I mentioned, many people (most) can be helped non surgically.

It's less than 10% that need surgery, and then even a smaller percentage of those that have trouble after the surgery. So, not trying to minimize her pain of course, but letting you know it's not too shocking..

I will certainly pray that she can be helped with things non surgically..and that the pain meds start to help...

I wanted to ask if they gave her an actual muscle relaxer or nerve pain medication? This can be very helpful for disc issues....sometimes an opiate is used in conjunction...but those two really target those types of pains..
Posted 11/9/2012 1:14 AM (GMT 0)
she is on valium for a muscle relaxer right now, and they just put her on Tylox, not sure of the dose, for pain right now, the Tramadol wasnt' working at all, not even when they tried a 24 hr pill of 200 mg, it was like she never had anything. her doc said if the tylox didnt work, she would change her instantly to something stronger still.

thanks again for lots of good advice

david
Posted 11/9/2012 1:20 AM (GMT 0)
David sorry to hear about the MRI results. Here is a very good website that you and the Mrs. can visit, it has accurate information which is vital; www.SpineUniverse.com..

I do hope your wife reported the injury the day it happened at work, there is usually a time limit on reporting an injury to an employer, obviously the sooner the better. The way you described what she was doing is should be work related. But, this can also cause some problems on what drs she can see under the worker's comp insurance company, that is very controlled.

I sure hope all goes well. Take care....Susie
Posted 11/9/2012 1:22 AM (GMT 0)
Wow...I haven't heard the med name Tylox in years...Usually they prescribe Percocet these days ...Hope it helps her:)

Post Edited (Snowbunny21) : 11/8/2012 6:33:16 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/9/2012 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
I am sorry to hear about the diagnosis. But, if you at all think it's worker's comp related, get a lawyer. I'm telling you companies can screw up workman's comp something awful.

(my opinion only) If she was on the clock, performing her duties, in the safest or most accepted manner possible, get a lawyer. And sign nothing. It does not have to be one of those ambulance chasers, you're not out to get them for everything, but you have to protect yourself.

You can get home health for her care and PT can come to your home as part of most home heath agencies to take most of the burden off of you. Her doctor can order that. That's help bathing, prepping medications, post-op care (if it comes to that). Something to consider, and talk to the lawyer about, given your condition.

Man, all I can say right now is I hope for the best for both of you. You've both had curveballs thrown at you for a long time. I hope the other coach calls in a new pitcher soon. Preferably a nearsighted one who cant hit anything.
Posted 11/9/2012 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
Me either, it had been a very long time since I heard of it being rx'd. I hope it helps.
Posted 11/9/2012 1:36 AM (GMT 0)
I just looked up this med, in this version, each pill is 300 mg of tylenol, 30 mg codeine, one pill, every 4 hours
Posted 11/9/2012 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
?? Tylox is Oxycodone (the opiate) and Acetaminophen (same medication in Tylenol.

The usual dosage is 5mg/500mg pills. The first number represents the Oxycodone and the second is the Acetaminophen.

That is why we are surprised to see it prescribed as they usually prescribe Percocet these days which is the same thing.

You can look this up on Rxlist.com or Drugs.com

*What you are describing is Tylenol 3. This has Acetaminophen and Codeine.  If it is this, it would be a step down from Tramadol...Especially the dosages that she was prescribed previously.

What does it read on the bottle?

Post Edited (Snowbunny21) : 11/8/2012 6:50:02 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/9/2012 2:12 AM (GMT 0)
David,

I am so sorry to hear about your wife's back problem. I'm sure you were taken aback upon hearing the news. I know others have mentioned it, try to take a deep breath and relax. You have so much on our plate right now and you need to try to remain calm.

I agree that you may need to rely on friends and family, you just aren't in the shape to do it all on your own. I understand how hard it is to get people to commit to help, even tho they've offered. I know I HATE to ask anyone to help us (hubby, daughter) I feel like I'm imposing on them. I encourage you to try to let someone else help you out.

I have a walker that has a seat on it. it also has a basket to hold things, I think your wife would benefit from one. My insurance paid for mine, but I know I've seen them sold at Walmart or any retail drug store. Also may I suggest a bath chair/bench for her. I have a chair and on days when I'm to weak to stand in the shower the chair really comes in handy.

Please try to get as much rest as you can David, and know that both you and your wife are in my prayers.

Hugs,
Barbara
Posted 11/9/2012 3:38 AM (GMT 0)
ok, its not called tylox. this is 30 mg codeine and 300 mg tylenol per pill
Posted 11/9/2012 3:41 AM (GMT 0)
Hi David. I am sorry to hear about your wifes news. but I am glad that she finally had the MRI done.! From what you have written, it sounds like the herniated disk is really really bad! They don't hurry these things along like that unless it is real serious! Usually when the disk is really pressing directly into the spinal cord, they want to get it taken care of right away to avoid paralysis.  I am not saying this is the case of your wife, but it does sound like here herniated disk is bad. I have not had surgery in  my lower back, at least not yet, I am scheduled for an MRI of my lower back the 16th, I know early this summer the neurosurgeon wanted to do surgery at L3/4 but I will find out the 16th if he still wants to do that. However I have had disk herniations and surgery on cervical disk in my neck. And the one in 1985 when they finally found out what my problem was  it became an emergency right away! My disk at C6/7 was so badly herniated it was pressing into my spinal cord and bending it, the disk was also ruptured and there was free floating fragments floating in my spinal canal. Anyway they found that out on Tuesday evening, and I had surgery at 5 AM the next morning.

 

I am not telling you this to scare you David, but if it is an emergency then they will take care of it! I just think it is good that they found out what was wrong, because, the longer it goes untreated it could in some cases get worse!  I am sure they have sent the pictures to the surgeon, so when you do see him he will know what needs to be done if he indeed feels it needs to be surgically corrected. Maybe he won't???

 

Please keep us informed, we do care! I do wish you and your wife all the best and your both in my prayers!........White Beard

 

One more thing I am glad they are finally trying to do something to control her pain, that type of pain is very very difficult to control, so if she is not getting adquate relief, then please tell her Doctor about it right away so they can give her something that will work!

Post Edited (White Beard) : 11/8/2012 8:48:22 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/9/2012 3:48 AM (GMT 0)
David, Please get her a workmans comp lawyer. I got hurt at work and I got a workmans comp lawyer and she helped me get proper medical care at home after my operations and then ss disability and I was approved the first time.

David, take care of yourself. I am worried about you.

Betsey
Posted 11/9/2012 4:11 AM (GMT 0)
David, yes, I 110% agree with Betsy on this one consult a barred work comp specialist ASAP. There's one I can recommend from SC if you want, but I'll have to dig his name out. Incredible attorney! They work on a percentage from the work comp insurance company. She has very little time to file a claim, and the fact that she's seen her own doctor instead of theirs will make it more difficult. Buuuuttt... on work comp, she will receive what's called Total temporary disability benefits, basically work comp form of short term disability. If a lawyer files the claim for her, it's a lot less likely to be denied the first time at this point, just like your SSDI was denied initially. Also, they will cover all of her medical care, which you want to keep with her docs, and not doctors working for work comp. Another reason for an attorney.

Good luck, shoot me an email if you have any Qs on that, also, L3-4 is the level I just had surgery on, so I'm pretty familiar with that too.
Posted 11/9/2012 4:41 AM (GMT 0)
After your updated post...it sounds like she is on Tylenol 3...As I mentioned, this is pretty much a step down from the Tramadol...but some people get good results with codeine so I hope she does. But just wanted you to be aware that she may be in even more pain than when she was taking the Tramadol:(

I'm not sure why they just can't give her at least Lortab or even Percocet if they now know it's a disc herniation. I certainly hope that you can get into the Neurosurgeon soon!. He may be the one to switch up her medications...And even though Valium has an affect to relax muscles...it's not one of the primary ones used. Many Drs. don't like patients taking Valium every day.

Actual muscle relaxers are Flexeril, Robaxin, Skelaxin, Baclofen, or Zanaflex. These can be used daily...

So...I hope you all get some good direction asap..
Posted 11/9/2012 5:59 AM (GMT 0)
David I am happy for you both that she got the MRI and problem now is diagnosed. For me nothing is worse than having undiagnosed pain. Matt and Betsey know the ins and outs of wcb, so they can help guide you both. Rest when you can, try to take a few mini breaks whenever possible. I am wishing you both only good things.
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