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Posted 11/17/2014 7:01 AM (GMT 0)
I am not a doctor nor a Preacher of Get on with your life. This comes from my 20 year Battle with major Depression the worst possible thing you can imagine as a reaction to the inadequate treatments I was getting. Then the realization of the real cure!
All people who endure relentless 24 7 pain for months then years then decades and Doctors simply saying take this and Live with it. Sound like You? I have Your attention now. I have 15 broken Vertebra and 17 destroyed disks. Conjour a more significant pain situation My Neurosurgeon wont Fuse until I Give in totally. I am just a stubborn. I did Approve a Double AD Implant 10 years ago in my neck to support my 6 of 6 Cervical vertebra and the now missing Disks. Yes the C spine starts at C2 and ends at C7 only 6 no C1 or C8 exists. C1 would be the skull and it has 4 pedestals that junction to C2 My first ADI is at C2/3 and the last is at C5/6 C6/7 was fused 20 years before. Currently Both the ADI Failed thus shattering the bone that was supporting them form C2 3 5 and 6 4 the ADI' rasping on my spine and vocal chords. results Are Definate signals of Paralysis onset. Scary depressing as I suffered so long before My surgeries and from T 10 to S1 another disaster zone. Which is degrading rapidly now. Its been a pain endurance competition I seem to have Won. a few years ago I would not have said that.
Until I was told my solutions Surgically would be to have a total Fusion of T 10 to S2 and I know now Also of C2 to C7 I will be rigid . I am of an age I can accept the disability. But like those of you who have had only one minor Disk surgery. Your Cringing at my story and wondering what of my Depressions Suicidal mind and the rest. Being told to Live with my pain was perhaps the best thing I could have heard I chose to Follow that rout . No one could have predicted My current ADI failures.
I accepted the pain for the first time since the Fall that ended my Career and Pain free days. entered into hell of Pains that Oxycodone could not subdue. I was on every plausible Anti depressant Benzodiazapine and imaginable pain killer not as potent as Oxy. I simply was not impressed with the pain that caused me after a 2 year stint.

THe Key was learning what NO doctor seems to realize :: YOUR pain over rides the effects of your Pshych medications and you are What I call Drug Resistant Depressive. all those drugs just messing up your kidneys and liver.
The more you take the worse you get. your panic about not responding to meds makes it worse your in tha relentless Circle of Pills Depression pills depression never feeling a single breath of relief .

CURE !
Wean of the Anti depressive meds Bipolar meds. With medical supervision and advice. Slowly you may find your pain management begin to work and your doom and Gloom recover to at least Days of pain but free of Depression that makes the pain so much worse . I have lived with pain and have always had the ability to not Feel pain unless it was from a very serious injury. IN fact I fell 75 feet Broke my spine and was the only person not panicking while we waited for the ambulance I Broke my hip and again fooled triage nurses into believing nothing was wrong until I moved and it turned into A furious bloody mess when after awaiting an hour to get attention the Femur exited my leg like a spear being thrown into a body . I can do the worst but that has kept me going and able to handle my Spinal injuries. Do not for one second I am that immune not to be sensitive to your pains. I don't allow dentists to inject my Gun=mms with that freezing f stuff it hurts for far too long . YEP I am a chicken when it comes to dentist yet Il will let then do extractions fillings and Root Canals cold turkey. But we don't get too depressed over This.

Good luck I wish you pain free days with sunshine in your view.

Peter cool
Posted 11/17/2014 11:20 AM (GMT 0)
That's what I find so heartbreaking--people who are in pain and suffering depression, either because of the pain or because they would naturally be ill with depression anyway.

I'm lucky in that all my previous life before chronic pain, I seemed to be immune to depression. My wife, also without chronic pain, unfortunately suffered on and off bouts of depression for years, though she dealt/deals with it without medication, but I've at least seen her depression from the outside and been heartbroken that I can't do more to help her.

Nowadays, my depression and anxiety fluctuate directly in connection with my chronic pain. More pain today, more depression. Less pain, no depression.

I'm sure that anti-depressants would do nothing for me without pain control, and they're unnecessary with pain control. When I was with hospice briefly, they tried me on a couple of very common anti-anxiety drugs just to see if they helped me like they helped some other patients, and after the first dose of each it was clear they made me feel worse, not better.

Fortunately my doctors and I are slowly working toward the right combination of opiates and nerve medicine to keep the pain at a "still there but not-depressing" level. As my cancer progresses, it sometimes seems we'll never stay caught up. The last few days, after an increase in nerve medicine, have been the best in months, but that's about all I can hope for.

So what's my point in replying? Well, not sure, LOL! I guess to say that I totally agree that anti-depressants won't cure what needs to be handled other ways and may even interfere with other drugs. And I'm all for taking as few medicines as possible, just to avoid unknown side effects and interaction.

Accepting pain, with its limitations on life, may be one of those other ways, in connection with the principles of cognitive behavioral therapy or similar drug-free therapy (even if one doesn't formally attend sessions with a psych doctor). So that's where I completely agree.

But then there may be other people out there who do need anti-depressants. My wife suffers more depression and anxiety about my pain than I do, unfortunately. I wonder, what if she were the one in pain? Would her underlying depression finally get so bad that psych drugs would help, or would she be like me, and just need pain control to get back to her normal? She wonders if anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medicine would help her even now, but even her doctor says it's hard to tell, because her new worry about my pain is real, not part of her illness of depression.

I dunno. It's hard to figure out what's best for every person. But I definitely agree that anti-depressants aren't necessarily the best fit for everyone in pain and need to be a careful judgment call, especially when combined with other pain killers.

Post Edited (JamesBW) : 11/17/2014 4:47:20 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/17/2014 12:51 PM (GMT 0)
Well Knightwing I have not welcomed you to the forum so this is a very huge welcome and an even bigger WOW what a mess you have encountered. I must say I agree with where your coming from at certain points. I am also one of those CPers pf decades and also one who does not use anit-depressants to battle what I believe is a natural state for humans to pass through at given points. It is a state of mind that can and should be healthy. It motivates me to take a stand and deal with or change whatever it is in my life causing that state at that moment. I do believe however that there are folks with chemical imbalances in the brain that require medication to put things right again,such as bipolar,and manic states,depression again I believe is an emotion much like happy,morose,etc.

I have dealt with many losses in my life and CP just happens to be one of those as I view it as a loss of my good health and that loss brought on more losses such as lesser mobility,my career,and other things, my state of mind at those times caused a domino effect and loss of friends,family,social interactions.

The loss of my child was my breaking factor and far more of a depressing matter then anything my CP could throw at me and admittedly I allowed my DRs to attempt to treat my state of depression and anxiety brought about by her death,which I know now is a natural state of mind for the loss of a child,I eventually asked myself why I would attempt to treat a natural state of mind to a really depressing affair? I stopped all the meds that were preventing me from going through a natural grieving process and moved on with my life dealing with it without my daughter in it as it should be in grief. Not or never erasing the pain of her loss only allowing for me to carry on in the face of it. I have to say that after that pain and loss nothing since even comes close in comparison,not the loss of my beloved Mother,my childhood and lifelong friend and father of children,not even the Chronic pain that is now my constant companion. I learned to roll with life's punches so to speak.

To me the meds that treat depression prolong,mask,or obliterate the issues at hand so dealing with the issues and confronting them has always been the answer for me,may not be as easy as that for others. We do all have different strengths,different personalities, and certainly differing pain thresholds. I had 4 babies absolutely 100% natural with not so much as an aspirin onboard but that doesnt mean to say that Moms who have epidurals are wimps it says I have better ability at controlling my own mind and thoughts and that is what it is. I had a therapist way back long ago during those dark days after the loss of my daughter that showed me or taught me if you will how to "take a break" with your mind,remove yourself completely from the room if need be,in mind only. Distraction at its most valuable times is absolutely the most priceless of abilities.

I have used it sometimes in my life as a daily tool for dealing with many facets of life,raising 5 babies and then teenagers alone,losing both my parents withing 11 months of one another,the loss of my kidsDad and my best friend,and this pain,this relentless around the clock pain that would certainly drive me to dark depths if I give it the power to do so! I wont!

Like you I ran the games of many Drs with many opinions but most coming down to live with! I could live in a stupor of medication with still little relief or live with my emotions and self intake in still the same pain and yes years of narcotics no matter what anyone says effects who you are and every fiber of your health and well being. Your body will respond in not so good ways to years of those chemicals being ingested,no you all know I am not anti-med here but you all know I can and have lived with meds as only a last resort way to go and that I constantly push here to reach for it only after everything else has absolutely failed you and you you cant get the pain under control.

I think you will find some really awesome folks here and your certainly going to get some negative feedback here as well as positive since it is and can be a touchy and controversial subject but the good thing about HW and the CP forum is the folks here welcome the challenge of debate in a good way.
Posted 11/17/2014 4:28 PM (GMT 0)
I've only had CP for about a year and a half now. I just went through my rock-bottom, breaking down completely point a week ago. I checked myself into a mental stabilization facility and I was there for 6 days. They got me turned around in the right direction. The meds help and the part of interacting with strangers with similar mental issues as well as group therapy with specific topics all helped me.

Keep in mind though that I had depression and panic disorder diagnosed in my teens so I believe I should take the medicine because there is an underlying cause of these diagnoses, such as a chemical imbalance. I believe with the environmental and physical health issues added on just sent me over the edge.

It is really difficult right now to stay on plan and go in the right direction. What is even worse is my family is not all that supportive and I think they gave up on me around the point I checked myself into the hospital. It is hard to stay positive and care for myself when others don't seem to care and especially not feeling love from my wife.

I have a post all about this and what happened to me that I started when I got out of the hospital if anyone wants to read about my journey through this horrible time.

Please! If anyone is severely depressed and/or having thoughts of hurting self or suicide, please find help. You can check into hospitals and these facilities are normally called Mental Stabilization Units. They usually don't keep you for more than a week depending on your recovery and it helped me so much. Better yet, get help as soon as you start feeling the depression setting in with CP...get a therapist and maybe you won't have to go as far down this road as I did.
Posted 11/17/2014 9:24 PM (GMT 0)
Depression, true depression, is not a response to a situation, however awful that situation may be. Depression is a disease and medical condition just like any other. I have a very, very severe case and have been a major depressive my ENTIRE life.

Way before CP struck me, I was depressed. I'm not sure I'm reading everything correctly but I seem to hear the OP saying these meds are unnecessary. Please know that is not true. My body would be decayed, eaten through by worms, if it weren't for anti-depressants. I would be dead, I know this with 100% certainty. So - I'm not trading one devil for another. My kids need me alive.
Posted 11/17/2014 11:42 PM (GMT 0)
Backtolife and Markh said it better than I did. If someone has the disease of depression, medicines for the depression may still be necessary after the onset of a chronic pain condition, or the chronic pain may even make the depression worse. I'd definitely suggest that anyone suffering from depression talk to their doctor(s) as soon as possible and figure out how to get help, with or without anti-depresssants.

But I think the more common mistake is when a doctor assumes that because someone is depressed due to chronic pain, it's the same as having the disease of depression and therefore can be treated with anti-depressants.

I'll also add... double-check side effects of any medicine for depression, even if it's down on the rare end of the list. I suffered true chemically-induced depression horribly for about 10 hours after being given one dose of Toradol in the ER, although the nurse insisted it was as safe as any NSAID and the doctors afterward didn't really believe how awful it made me feel. Never felt that depressed before or since. If something seems to be going wrong, insist on having a discussion with your doctor(s) about what other medicines might do the job without side effects, because there are lots of alternatives out there and no need to suffer in silence.
Posted 11/18/2014 1:03 AM (GMT 0)
And there you said it James!! There's a huge difference between being depressed over a naturally depressed time or event in your life is a different ballgame then having a depressive disorder. Dr's these days are so quick to shove a pill upon us when all we are doing is reacting normally to a depressing situation and the results end up being Sometimes the reverse of the wanted actions of that Med. Suicide amongst recipients of antidepression meds.
Posted 11/19/2014 2:52 AM (GMT 0)
WOW I never Expected such a mix of very much in agreement and not in agreement. Let me clarify What was perhaps missing in my opening comments. I can ABSOLUTELY agree that when a person is new to Chronic pain the instant KICK is the guts upon hearing well this is the rest of your life is to Strangle the Doctor. As you have just lostg the entire quality of lkife for the next many decades UNTHINKABLE and frankly unacceptable. Your life once active and happy is now about face on both accounts a few months pass and you are seriously depressed by the clinical measure. Antidepressants HELP ANd must be used, Once you learn how to cope with the new Hell you live in its time to get on with life drop the AD meds and Accept the fact your life is SCREWED sorry for the LINGO. I's transitioned from Chronic pain to worse Chronic pain to even worse. Each time after I struggled with physical activity to get into an Endorphin flooded life, and feeling of I am ok wit h this something happened and Don I go Injure the Injury. Its Clinically depressing however AFTER a year or so you drop the AD meds wow its just the same as a few weeks ago.
I was an amateur competitive cyclist until age 63 and Messed up since 1968 1978 1986/7 and 1990 each of my injure the injury years. FOr some period you are Drug treatable Depressive for about 6 months after each event or Family LOSS a true well documented cause of Depression.
I am concerned with the Drudgery of years of treatment for your Supposed Depression.
Pills are Bad for you and Reduce When ever you can. A Rule we all should follow. Re Toradol I do not go to ER for shots of them I do them at home. I ran out one night and Went to ER My spine at L 345 was a rock hard LUMP almost 1 inch at the center swelling above the rest of my Spine. The Resolution was Toradol Shot. it is a powerful Anti Inflammatory Age3nt PLUS a SUPER POWERFULL ANALGESIC! My Dr will not Prescribe Fentynyl or the like. But will My Toradol. We had a sssspat Heated and Hissssy over the issue of a resolved ulcer some 15 years before. I went home after many hours of Pain in the ER stopped by the now open pharmacy and Filled My On file Repeat for Toradol. Went home and Injected 20 minutes later I was OUT of pain. and that Lump subsided. I finally slept. What made you Ill was the analgesic component of the Toradol. I reported the incident to the College and took it to court as they of course Sided with the JERK. Contrary to It Being SAFE Irresponsible of that nurse ?Dr? Its Dangerous My OLd Ulcer may have raised a red flag. as this med will rip open any intestinal weakness and You would never want that. However the court after hearing my Internist speak about sewing up the ulcer dispelled any issue of attack after 15 years. the ER doctor was Chastised by the Courts the college was chastised for an Obvious BIAS in Favor of the Doctors IE protect your Peers. Your illness from Toradol Indicates the caution over the effect of the very powerful Analgesic You Simply should avoid Toradol I however speak highly of it used withy DUE caution. I am the ONLY person I know of that has permission to use this Drug as Injectable form at home . IN Canada there is no restriction on this I simply walk on hopes My example of safe use can keep me able to use it at home. You can ask but do not expect the same response
Posted 11/19/2014 3:54 AM (GMT 0)

knightgtwingfire said...
Your illness from Toradol Indicates the caution over the effect of the very powerful Analgesic You Simply should avoid Toradol I however speak highly of it used withy DUE caution

Absolutely. Just want to clarify that I wasn't speaking against Toradol in particular, just using it as a random example of how different people react differently to different drugs, so one should speak up if something seems to be going wrong, because any particular individual's reaction may be different from what doctors or nurses are expecting, for any drug.
Posted 11/19/2014 7:04 PM (GMT 0)
Absolutely!!!!
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