Mycobacterium paratuberculosis (MAP) and Crohn's

Hi Bleda,

And welcome to Healingwell. We have had many conversations about the MAP theory. I personally do not agree that it is the sole cause of Crohns. I believe it may be true for some but not all.

I would suggest you use our search and view our past posts on this subject.

Gail*Nanners*

I am also a fan of alternative medicine but I don't think there are natural antibiotics strong enough to control MAP. MAP is serious business. I believe that conventional antibiotics can be useful if one remembers that they kill both good and bad bacteria so must be taken with and afterwards with plenty of probiotics.

There are no 'herbal' anti-biotics.  This is the reason that millions and millions of people died from simple infections before antibiotics were discovered.  Thank God for western medicine!

If the MAP theory is true, or even proven as a contributing factor of CD, then it will be very difficult to eradicate this bacteria in humans and cattle because it supposedly has a very slow reproductive cycle, unless a vaccine or new antibiotic treatment is developed.

In the meantime the best thing to do is starve the bacteria and use anti-microorganism methods (natural or medical).
I think Rider Fan has a point, though, if there was a surefire way, docs would know about it by now.

Herbal remedies that might help include anything that anti-microbial: oil of oregano, bee propolis, peppermint oil, cinnamon, some herbal teas, etc.

Diets that help reduce bad bacteria and populate with good bacteria include SCD and The Maker's Diet. You could also try it on your own be reducing refined grains, processed sugars and foods, taking probiotics, eating more whole grains, veggies, fruits, etc.

Whether or not it's MAP, bacteria/virus/fungi probably play some kind of role in CD, because the immune system *seems* to be overreacting to something that may or may not be harmful.

Post Edited (Roni) : 6/6/2011 11:44:27 AM (GMT-6)

I totally agree with you Roni.. My current feeling is that, the disease feeds itself by further taking down the immune system to fight with the cause.. For example the mulnutrition it already causes, make things worse for immune system.. So all needed is to break the vicious cycle, like SCD or an Antibiotic or LDN..

I am also aware of lack of funding for studies like Prof Taylor's.

The reasoning, i am investigating MAP nowadays can be summarized as follows:

- I have seen the help of SCD for manny people (has bad bacteria theory in it)
- Use of any gasto related antibiotic, helps people temporarily, but never used them in long term
- Work of Barody, Taylor, Beck etc
- Use of silver, zappers, herbal anitbiotics that helped people.. (some try to sell stuff)
- Ingorable IBD cases, till modern nations pasteurize the milk.. india, japan, china, africa..
- MAP is pathogenic in many mammals but not man.. how come?
- Tendency like IBS--> Colitis --> Chrons (sounds like the spread and growth of a bacteria in all axes..)

All these are my uneducated humble guesses and observations as an engineer..
That said, a bacteria can still be a middle step at the chain of events.. Not the real/core cause..

But nothing wrong with trying to interrupt that middle step with a herbal remedy if possibe..
otherwise, immune supressors are always there, as a way to interrput the later steps with higher costs..

Best Regards..

Bleda- Chrons - LDN

Hi Tommy,

In my country, Turkey, IBD digestive problems were unheard of till 80s..
People used to boil milk coming from small isolated villages.. Bread, yogurt (a Turkish word), wheat has always been the main food for us..

But as we developed, large farms and diary companies started collecting all kinds of milk and animals and stored, breed them together.. They even feed them contantly with antibiotics for common animal diseases..

Nowadays, mostly white collar people started having IBD even at young ages in Turkey.. So stress in city might be affecting as well.. But, in small villages, still no IBD. They have a closed loop food and diary chain..

Lived in USA for a couple of years, all food/diary is industrial.. mixture of various farms.. even in small towns.. no chance to avoid it..

In japan, no IBD till 1975.. hardworking stresfull nation.. after 75, nowadays, many cases... etc..
African Americans in USA have it.. none in Africa..

Even an engineer can observe these facts..

Good luck to brave reseachers that try to go for the root cause.. Because, immune suppressing researchers are always funded better .. :)

Bleda - Crohns - LDN

Of course you have a point too Vixen,

It is very logical that in rural areas or old times with less hospital or endoscopes, you can not have as many cases as today reported..

But statistically looking, you can somewhat see the huge correlation between the development and the number of cases reported even taking these unfortunate factors for rural areas.

As i said, all these comments are my mathematical look into the cases I have read during 3 years and the success stories were mostly about supressing (MAP or undefined) bacterial issues. (SCD, herbals antibiotics, MAP theory etc..)

When it comes to herbal or alternative solutions, I will keep on collecting information and see if there is any chance there:)

That is why I have just started LDN.

Regards

Bleda - Crohns - LDN

We have a member Zanne who takes Xifaxin daily with success. I used it with success for a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth a while back.

Borody is defenatly the best man to know about antibiotics,

The mycobacteria theory/proof (depending on source), says this bug eats carbs so by a no carb diet would then decrease the population.

After 4 years of constant bleeding and diarrhea I decided to go no carb after reading life without bread, vicious cicle and crohns boys post. Since I couldnt handle the smallest amount of carb without diarrhea I went no carb.

I eat mostly fish (salmon, mackrel, eel) sometimes chicken thights, ghee butter, coconut oil.
Supplements, scd vitamins, scd enzymes, hcl pepsin, caprylic acid, calcium/magnesium (not with meals)
Next week Ill start colloidial silver and then Ill start scd almond yoghurt.
I drink water between meals.

Since I started in mars I no longer have diarrhea, blood in stool, rectum itching at night, mood swings (I was bi-polar).
Still have: oral thrush, hemorroids.


This is by far not a proof that mycobacteria was the cause for my crohns, but its one more proof that the no carb diet works for some of us.

Nanners, I hear ya. I think it's a possibility that our intestinal immunity can over-react to all sorts of bacteria, viruses, etc. If so, that would explain why some CDers get over a flare with anti-biotics and others don't—because some of the microbes are antibiotic resistant.

More than 10, 000 messages ? I though I had read most of them in a week or so..
But is it just me or some times.. That research just look to a scam to me.. They don't even talk about it on the official web site of the Kings College Hospital where Dr. Taylor is supose to work..

A few notes and publications of Prof Taylor regarding MAP..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10888733
http://www.action.org.uk/press_release/medical_charity_confirms_link_crohn%E2%80%99s_disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19602288

Regards. Bleda.