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Interesting study at UMass, shows SCD works

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Posted 1/16/2012 4:12 AM (GMT 0)
Bee - We go through life trying to do the right thing, but mostly we never really know that our intentions actually made a difference. To tell me that is a very big gift. Your comments made my day and week. Because of you and Leslie I need to reconsider. No matter what Bless you!

Ambling and anyone who disagrees with my postion which is and was (look above) "eliminating 100% of all food coloring, preservatives, processed foods, HFCS, flour, and all that other bad stuff and replacing it with broths, veg, fruit and other good stuff has to be better for you." provide some proof. You will not be able to. My postion is simply commen sense and fact based.

I am sure all of the processed foods folks and the corn farmers getting rich on government subsidies would love a study that says it is better to eat out of a can with preservatives, vs clean simple food. I am sure big pharm would love the same study. But of course it does not exist.

This entire conversation is silly. Aruging if simple fruit and veg and meat is better than food coloring and perservatives. Say what you will I will not respond.

Thanks Bee and Leslie for your good thoughts :-)
Posted 1/16/2012 5:02 AM (GMT 0)
I agree with ambling - each to their own, and may we all get well on our own paths. I am really glad some have found diet to make all the difference - and, for those who didn't it does NOT mean we (or the newbies) are doomed - sometimes medications can make all the difference. For me, right now, I am on remicade and I am in remission - my path has been medication. So there can be hope with diet AND hope with western medicine AND hope with alternatives - the empowered part comes from each of us being able to choose the path that works for us at the time.
May we all be a support to each other and continue on paths to healing no matter how divergent...
Posted 1/16/2012 3:47 PM (GMT 0)
Blueberry - I never said do not take meds, I take meds. I said "eliminating 100% of all food coloring, preservatives, processed foods, HFCS, flour, and all that other bad stuff and replacing it with broths, veg, fruit and other good stuff has to be better for you." and one of the mods said she knows no one with moderate chrohn's that it has helped. I condemened no one. I pointed out a fact re what eat.

Do you really believe that eating garbage is a healthy as eating clean food? Really?

You like ambling do not want to discuss the point I made.

Some choose to depend on big pharm for thier future. I get it. They are insulted or uncomfortable when someone says it is healthier to eat clean and that you can take action to give yourself more of a chance to be healthy. You are not doing it or you know you could be doing more, when someone points it out, it strikes a raw nerve and then there is lashing out. Change the subject quick! And for sure attach David. Perhaps he will go away and then we will not have to think about eating healthy again. And even if he stays at least we can position him as a bad person, so we will not have to face what he said. I get it.

Depending on big pharm for their life gives a person only one chance to get healthy. I would rather have 2 or 3 chances (diet, exercise and drugs). For me having 100% depedency on big pharm, is very scary. It is my opinion (notice I qualified this vs stating this as a fact) that many if not most who depend only on big pharm, start on weaker drugs, then have to take stonger then something like 60% end up needing surgery (again, I could be wrong re the numbers). My head is not in the sand. That future scares me enough where there is little I will not do.

I am lucky. I have the resources (phiysical, mental and monetary) to take these actions. I recognize that all are not as blessed. I pray for those that wish to take action but do not have the resources.

Good luck to you.

Dave
Posted 1/16/2012 4:38 PM (GMT 0)
http://www.ccfa.org/about/news/scd

This is what the CCFA says about the diet. I think it might work for some, but is not the answer for all. I think the answer is actually a little bit of everything, not just one thing. One reason I believe that is because I have learned that some can eat things I can't even think about, while I can eat things that maybe another couldn't. Or one person does well on one med, and another can't tolerate that med. Or one person can handle this probiotic and another it makes them ill. etc. etc. etc. jho
Posted 1/16/2012 6:02 PM (GMT 0)
Hey dtdavedf I'm happy to discuss anything logically with a reasonable person, so no need claim otherwise.
If I understand you correctly, you believe that anyone who follows the special diet you use, and with which you are fanatically compliant, have a good chance to achieve remission, along with exercise and possibly even some support from drugs. You also believe that this is a far better alternative to drug therapy alone (and choose the term 'big pharma' to describe the suppliers and the associated infrastructure.)
I'm sure that everyone is happy for you, and supports your position, and are glad you are well, and some even want to follow that path too. However your path is not the only one available, nor has it been conclusively proven to be the best one, or 'the answer' (notwithstanding some preliminary studies.) One day it may be, and then again it may not.
You do acknowledge that for various reasons, this path may not be possible for everyone to follow.

Is the perceived problem that you think everyone should follow what you are doing, in spite of their vastly differing; disease statuses, experience, knowledge, resources and environments? Or do you feel compelled to assist people because you believe you have 'the answer'? Either way, that can be an unhealthy approach to take, as you are seeing. Clearly people can benefit from knowledge, but the effect is very much diminished if they feel someone is trying to force their opinions upon them.

I have a different approach that works for me. Do I want to thrust it upon others and possibly get upset if they won't listen to me? Not at all. I share if asked, and am gentle about it. I've learned that approach the hard way!

Good luck, and peace to you. I want to be helpful as you are a passionate person. Clearly you are also well intentioned with well researched ideas, as are all fellow sufferers on this forum.
Best wishes on your journey. I see no need for any aggravation.
Posted 1/16/2012 6:56 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Dave,

May I ask if all is okay with you? The reason I ask is in this post you have come across not like the Dave I have known and loved. I wasn't going to post on this post, but I felt I had to, because of the tone it has become. And I hope I didn't make a mistake to get my head bit off again.

But you are coming across as if we are all dumb for not doing things your way. I am so happy you have found something that works well for you, I truly am. I hate to see anyone suffering with this dd. But PB4 has found what works for her, or Ambling has found what works for them, or I have found what works for me, and so on and so on. With Crohns we all know that its not the same for all and that all don't have the same type of Crohns/symptoms.

Respect that others may not have the same approach, and accept what they are doing is working for them. For those having issues, its great to share how your diet and regimen is working for you. Like I might share what I think may be helpful. Never know we both might help someone else. But don't make it out like those who have tried the diet didn't give it a fair shake or are quitters or whatever. Accept that this diet might not be the end all to be all for everyone. We are a support group to give and share ideas, not to force others into a like opinion.

As you know I personally believe that diet, meds and natural meds should be complimentary of eachother. But I do respect that my way isn't the way for everyone. JMHO and Hugs!
Posted 1/16/2012 9:57 PM (GMT 0)
I think one of the problems here is that there is some confusion about the argument that is being made. This thread started as a discussion about SCD (see the subject line) but seems to have become muddled, on one side, into a more general discussion about less refined diets vs more refined diets.

SCD isn't the only diet that advocates avoidance of additives and excessive sugar intake, and excessive intake of refined foods. And many people eat a lot of fresh fruit and veg and avoid most processed foods, even though they do not subscribe to a particular dietary ethos. I think this accounts for some of the resistance and hostility that Dave is receiving.

I think it would help to be very clear here about the argument that is being made. Dave, are you discussing SCD only, or (as seems to be the case) "purer" eating in general? If so, it may be helpful to take *that* discussion to a new thread, so that this thread, here, can be devoted to a discussion about SCD. The confusion in arguments and muddled reasoning isn't helping anyone, and is only leading to dissent... and, I think, often unnecessary dissent, too.

Very kindest wishes, as always,

Ivy.
Posted 1/17/2012 1:46 AM (GMT 0)
Gail and Ivey, you know I respect the heck out of both of you, on many levels. I am sure I have not done so enough, but i have expressed my gratitude to you both many times. 

Gail, you have seen me post many times re diet. I always include other diets as I know there is no single answer.

However the position I was taking is "eliminating 100% of all food coloring, preservatives, processed foods, HFCS, flour, and all that other bad stuff and replacing it with broths, veg, fruit and other good stuff has to be better for you." This is a copy from my original post. I took exception and expressed my concern when a mod comes on and says "I tried and it did not work for me, and I know no one with moderate CD that it has worked".

Then folks all started with positioning me as "I have all the answers" and "SCD is the only way". I believe neither.

However, I take as a fact, and if someone does not agree, then please show some evidence that "eliminating 100% of all food coloring, preservatives, processed foods, HFCS, flour, and all that other bad stuff and replacing it with broths, veg, fruit and other good stuff has to be better for you."

Gail, I know you do low res. I know that it works for you, to some degree, as SCD works for me to some degree. However, I honestly believe that if you did low res and "eliminating 100% of all food coloring, preservatives, processed foods, HFCS, flour, and all that other bad stuff and replacing it with broths, veg, fruit and other good stuff has to be better for you." Same for you Ivey, I know you are going down the fodmap path. I believe that if you eliminated all the garbage (and you might have already) then you give your body the best chance at health from fodamp.

I think low res and try to act directionally low res because of the info provided by you Gail. I have read some about FodMap and have eliminated some things (I can not eliminate yogurt) like mushrooms, because of FodMap reading. I nether think I or SCD have all the answers, that's why I am reading all the time. I read every diet thread, as I try to figure things out.

But please I will not be PC and say nothinig when people argue that eliminating 100% of all food coloring, preservatives, processed foods, HFCS, flour, and all that other bad stuff and replacing it with broths, veg, fruit and other good stuff has to be better for you."

And if the expected and correct behavior is to be PC and say nothing then we are not a match

With Great Appreciation and Respect for Both of You

Dave

 

Posted 1/17/2012 2:22 AM (GMT 0)
Dave, while I don't doubt that SCD and all the other diets out there help. And that keeping to as natural a diet as possible is good for us, it isn't always possible and to think it is is just naive. When you have had as much bowel removed as some of us have, ANY fruit, veg and most dairy is impossible to digest. Even most meat is hard to digest. I can not handle any fruit or veg even cooked, strained fruits or veg without the possibility of a blockage, increase in D or days of pain. Dairy will just cause me pain, bloating and D, and yes I have tried the SCD yogurt, many times. If I didn't eat flour I would be malnourished. Those are the words of a world renowned GI specialist who just reviewed my case and read in my records that SCD was recommended to me years ago. I have tried the SCD legal breads sprouted grains and others, and they cause blockages. For those of us with stricture issues, or short bowel syndrome, or just multiple surgeries and very active disease Fruit and Vegetables are not going to be the answer. Eating the best quality food we can is always a good idea. But that doesn't mean that flour needs to be eliminated, some of us have no issues with gluten. And we all need to determine what our own "bad stuff" is. The only way to do that is through trail and error. No diet is going to be right for all of us. We need to pick and choose the pieces and parts that work for us. For me, right now, it is a very limited, very low residue diet of mostly fish and rice, with some potato and pasta thrown in. Is that the right diet for everyone, absolutely not its way too limiting. But for me right now, it is working.
Posted 1/17/2012 2:31 AM (GMT 0)
Dave, all I am saying is that you seem to be arguing two things at once. If you want to advocate SCD, then fine! do so in this thread. But the argument seems to have changed along the line to advocating an all natural, unrefined diet. Again, if you want to argue *that* point, then I think it would be better to argue it in a different thread.

Equating SCD with health and denigrating other diets is only going to put people off-side, and that may well account for some of the negativity you are experiencing here. Many (maybe even most) people here make a huge effort to follow what they feel is a healthy diet... it just may not be SCD. People who aren't following SCD aren't necessarily living on hotdogs and hamburgers... and I think people find it upsetting when others assume that they do (see, for example, notsosicklygirl's post).

And hey, I'm not arguing with you. I'm just asking you to clarify what *you* are arguing, because the main point of this thread seems to have been lost, and people are now arguing on a couple of different topics at once, and that's not helpful.

Ivy.
Posted 1/17/2012 2:32 AM (GMT 0)
Yes in an ideal world your statement about eating non-processed foods, no flour etc and 'eliminating all the bad stuff' (?) would be a simple truism. But on a forum where people have severely impaired digestive processes due to obstructions, ulcerations, missing parts of bowels, recovering from surgery etc, it is far from that simple.

Most people cannot eat fruit and veg with their damaged and limited systems, nor can they tolerate fiber, and are forced, at least for a period of time, to survive on some of the 'bad stuff' including supplemental liquid nutrition drinks (with their inherent imperfection) which save bowels, and can save lives. They often don't have 6 months or more to figure out a diet, and then re-figure whether there was some little thing in their that may have caused a problem! They need immediate assistance. There is a time and a place for eating 'healthy'.

Most people are aware that diet is incredibly important, and that eating in as healthy a way as physically possible (within the limits of available information) is the best way to go. It is actually pretty cruel to tell someone who is severely emaciated and chronically ulcerated that they need to be eating more fruit and veg!
Posted 1/17/2012 2:40 AM (GMT 0)
I am done.
I wass trying to help and initiate good thoughts. I failed.
Sorry for wating your time
d
Posted 1/17/2012 3:18 AM (GMT 0)
E1, this thread is just too flaming and upsetting to too many members. I'm sorry, but I have to lock it.
I've alerted Admin and it will be up to him if he wants to unlock it or delete it.

We all appreciate each other's support, encouragement, and words of wisdom, so let's get back to what we're here for.

Peace!
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