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Posted 7/5/2014 10:23 PM (GMT 0)
crohnsmapvaccine.com/

Post Edited (xy123) : 8/10/2015 7:50:20 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/6/2014 12:21 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for posting this. We need to get the word out.

For the unaware

MAP (Mycobacterium avium supspecies Paratuberculosis) is a pathogen that has been PROVEN to cause Johnes Disease in animals. Specifically, but not limited to, ruminants such as Cows, Sheep, Goats, etc...

Once the animal is infected, it could take years for symptoms to manifest. I have a picture below of a ruminant that has been infected with Johnes Disease.

VIEW IMAGE

Symptoms include inflammation of the intestine, rapid weight loss, diarrhea, and eventually death. Symptoms eerily similar to Crohn's patients. Exposure to these pathogens in animals is widespread, especially in dairy cattle.

Since the pathogen is so pervasive in animals, the pathogen inevitably has made its way into our food supply through contaminated milk, beef, and many other animals. It can even enter our water supply because when it rains, fecal matter from these infected cows washes the MAP bug into our rivers and contaminates the water supply. It is extremely hard to avoid.

Dr. John Herman Taylor has concluded that, when properly tested, close to 90% of patients diagnosed with Crohns disease carry the bug in their system.

He is in the process right now of finally developing a diagnostic assay to test for MAP in Crohns patients. He is also in the process of developing a vaccine that could eradicate this bug once and for all.

This is extremely important information and is literally a game changer and it needs to be talked about more.

Post Edited (Poppysocks) : 7/5/2014 6:39:15 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/8/2014 12:22 PM (GMT 0)
I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that MAP causes Crohn's Disease. If you have Crohn's Disease, this vaccine looks like it has a very good chance of actually curing it - I don't mean that lightly either. It has been very effective in mice and cattle studies and they are hoping to start human trials mid next year provided they can raise enough money to go ahead. I've been reading their site and their facebook page is great for asking questions on this if anyone is interested. Really, really excited about this!
Posted 8/9/2014 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
I'll post this here as well. Hopefully some more will watch, learn and visit the Crohn's MAP Vaccine Website.

Great lecture on MAP (from 2008):
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMucsxJau6k&list=PL25307C42F8CD3412

As well this is a more recent lecture (2009)

Part 1
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1tduXIW4o
Part 1
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMIWRQzeW3A
Part 3
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nBxT3QkIVU
Posted 8/10/2014 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
super interesting and encouraging
thanks
david
Posted 8/22/2014 3:43 PM (GMT 0)

nabby said...
I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that MAP causes Crohn's Disease. If you have Crohn's Disease, this vaccine looks like it has a very good chance of actually curing it - I don't mean that lightly either. It has been very effective in mice and cattle studies and they are hoping to start human trials mid next year provided they can raise enough money to go ahead. I've been reading their site and their facebook page is great for asking questions on this if anyone is interested. Really, really excited about this!

Do you think it could also cause Ulcerative Colitis?
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3031217/
Posted 8/22/2014 7:21 PM (GMT 0)
Stollery IBD clinic in Edmonton now in clinical trials of antibiotics for minors on multi-therapy treatment. My boy was excluded because I refused to have him on immuran and Remicaide together. Hopeful though.
Posted 8/22/2014 7:44 PM (GMT 0)
I asked the GI I saw at UCSF about MAP and it's potential to be the cause of CD. She said she's familiar with the theory and the testing they are doing but is far from convinced and said that preliminary results from the small scale studies that have been done with the anti-MAP cocktail of antibiotics aren't very encouraging. I hope that this research leads to better understanding and treatment options, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Posted 8/22/2014 8:47 PM (GMT 0)
not creative: Oh! I see. Now you're saying that Mycobacterium Avium subspecies Paratuberculosis is the potential cause of CD? Are you now saying that CD may not be an auto-immune disease? Do you remember when I said that CD could be cured through a low carbohydrate diet by starving harmful bacteria, you got angry on me? You're saying a different story now?

MAP is a multi-host pathogen. It supports the growth of other pathogens. It can survive in water alone for one year. It is not easy to kill MAP. If the milk, water, meat etc. are contaminated with MAP, why don't everyone get CD? Their body can destroy MAP! Just like the people who have survived Ebola infection.

There is a lot of information available about MAP on the internet. Johne's disease or MAP was discovered in 1905. It has been said long back that MAP could be a potential cause of CD, as most of the symptoms of Johne's are identical. Yet, no intensive research has been made to find a vaccine for CD. Antibiotic cocktails have already been tested on patients with no good success. The duration of the treatment can take anywhere between 1-3 years. Yet, there is no guarantee that CD will be in remission, as the left out MAP could grow again and cause harm. One must realise that antibiotics not only kill harmful bacteria, but also friendly bacteria and thus making the gut flora worse.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/752223_5

Low carbohydrate diet does the same thing, but in another way. It kills the harmful bacteria by starving them. At the same time, it replenishes the friendly bacteria which in turn keep harmful bacteria at bay. There is less chance for relapse.
Posted 8/22/2014 9:14 PM (GMT 0)
Usher: Really? Did you even read my post? My guess is that you stopped at the first sentence having decided I was contradicting something I said previously, got really excited and decided to post something calling me out. Sorry, you're a little premature and definitely over-reacting, as usual. 

My entire post actually relays what a GI told me that makes me think that MAP is NOT the cause of Crohn's and that Anti-MAP is probably not going to help much. I asked her because she is highly respected in the medical community and widely known to be a really good IBD GI, so I wanted an opinion from her on the MAP THEORY (key word is THEORY) I never said I agreed with the THEORY (wow, there's that word again) or that I felt like it was the cause of Crohn's. I just asked for a GI's opinion. If you read all the way to the end of my very short post, you'd have seen that my implication was that MAP may not be as promising as it sounds. Though, of course, I would accept additional therapies for the disease in any form and hope that all research lead to at least some benefits. However, as I said (which you would have seen if you read everything I said), I won't be holding my breath. Maybe my "hold my breath" idiom is confusing you. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Don't+hold+your+breath Maybe this will help you to understand.  

Try reading everything someone says before declaring them a hypocrite. Also, I didn't "get angry" on you for talking about starving bacteria in the gut. I think you're condescending and super rude and completely wrong when you state that your Crohn's is/was/can be CURED through diet. Key word being CURE. And for the record, I still think you're a jerk.

Posted 8/22/2014 9:29 PM (GMT 0)
not creative, I think this name perfectly suits you. What a stubborn lady you are! I know from your arrogant behavior that you're a ****!

not creative said, "I hope that this research leads to better understanding and treatment options, but I'm not going to hold my breath."

You guess that MAP could be one of the potential causes of CD and hope more research will be carried out to understand MAP and finding a better treatment. It in turn means that you're saying CD could be caused by a bacterium and may not be an auto-immune disease alone. Get your disease and anger under control!

Post Edited (Usher) : 8/22/2014 3:52:45 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/22/2014 10:18 PM (GMT 0)
I didn't "guess" anything. I posted some info I got from a doctor and stated that I hope all research leads to helpful knowledge, but I still feel a cure is far off and very complicated. What I write and what you see are two different things. You continue to not understand.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore. Also, I'm not going to chat with you on Google+. I'm not sure, but tracking other users down on the internet to harass them outside of HealingWell may be against the rules. Either way, you're impossible to talk to or reason with so I will not attempt to do either any further.

Good day, sir. I say GOOD DAY.

*Please continue your regularly scheduled MAP discussion...sorry to accidentally hi-jack the thread.
Posted 8/22/2014 10:41 PM (GMT 0)
not creative said, "I didn't "guess" anything".

Let us assume that I didn't read and understand your message completely and could not understand your difficult idiom. Just read once what you have written.

"I asked the GI I saw at UCSF about MAP and it's (it is) potential to be the cause of CD". First of all, you need to understand the difference between it's and its! and potential is an adjective. It is wrongly used. I should not be teaching you English grammar! So from your sentence, I conclude that you asked your doctor about MAP and it is one of the potential causes of CD.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/potential

I'll post the message that I wrote to you on gmail briefly - I want to chat to you privately rather than bothering people on HW. I didn't want you to offend me here, so I wrote you a private message. Why would I harass you? I wouldn't get anything out of that!

I didn't track you down. I clicked the link to your blog and read some of your posts. I thought of clarifying things with you, so I wrote you an email. You can write to me anytime. You will get my email address on my profile. You too have a nice day Madam! Hope to hearing from you soon.

Post Edited (Usher) : 8/22/2014 4:58:30 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/23/2014 2:28 PM (GMT 0)
Wrong thread guys. We're all on the same team here.
Posted 8/23/2014 8:53 PM (GMT 0)
Usher, even if someone holds a different opinion to yours it is no excuse for you to attack them!
'Not creative' clearly does not want you to contact her any more (which is understandable.)

Having done some research into MAP bacteria (including discussions with a once close colleague of Dr Borody, Dr Selby, who ran the original two year, triple-antibiotic trial) my personal opinion is that it seems an unlikely causal candidate, and is more likely to be an opportunistic pathogen (enjoying the environment of an already inflamed bowel). Borody now says only that 'it may play a role in some patients', as he pursues his newest pet project, FMT (which seems ironic given his triple antibiotic therapy obliterated the colonic microbiome of thousands of desperately ill patients.)

There is always enormous competition for research funding. Those who find the notion that MAP is causal to be compelling, are indeed passionate about their beliefs. It is very enticing to think of a potential vaccine as a possible solution.
Posted 8/23/2014 10:44 PM (GMT 0)
When I asked my GI about MAP, his opinion was that it was likely to be a secondary infection, ie not the primary cause of Crohn's. He still agreed to try a course of anti-MAP antibiotics if I wanted to, but Usher's first post in this thread pretty much outlined the reasons why I decided not to bother.

Most GIs don't seem to be very keen on the MAP hypothesis. And I agree with them: I think it's barking up the wrong tree.

@Usher - Stop internet stalking, dude.
Posted 8/23/2014 11:04 PM (GMT 0)
NCOT, :D Roger that! I didn't write to her again since yesterday. Like I said, I didn't stalk her. I clicked the link to her blog and read some posts. I later though of clarifying things with her, so I wrote a message on Google+. I wouldn't even dare reply to her posts in the future!

I hope you're doing fine. Take care :)

Post Edited (Usher) : 8/23/2014 5:12:42 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/24/2014 4:03 AM (GMT 0)

Usher said...

MAP is a multi-host pathogen. It supports the growth of other pathogens. It can survive in water alone for one year. It is not easy to kill MAP. If the milk, water, meat etc. are contaminated with MAP, why don't everyone get CD? Their body can destroy MAP! Just like the people who have survived Ebola infection.


Not everybody gets MAP because some are more resistant than others too it. Some can clear it while others can't. This is where genes come in. Just like in herds of cattle. The whole herd doesn't get infected only a select few that are susceptible that may pass it onto a few other cattle.

Usher said...

There is a lot of information available about MAP on the internet. Johne's disease or MAP was discovered in 1905. It has been said long back that MAP could be a potential cause of CD, as most of the symptoms of Johne's are identical. Yet, no intensive research has been made to find a vaccine for CD. Antibiotic cocktails have already been tested on patients with no good success. The duration of the treatment can take anywhere between 1-3 years. Yet, there is no guarantee that CD will be in remission, as the left out MAP could grow again and cause harm. One must realise that antibiotics not only kill harmful bacteria, but also friendly bacteria and thus making the gut flora worse.


That antibiotic cocktail study was apparently pretty flawed. And even if you look into using anti-MAP anti biotics in animals it is not 100% effective and you have to be very strict with giving them the anti-biotics on a daily basis or it won't work.

Usher said...

Low carbohydrate diet does the same thing, but in another way. It kills the harmful bacteria by starving them. At the same time, it replenishes the friendly bacteria which in turn keep harmful bacteria at bay. There is less chance for relapse.


I'm not subscribing to the belief that a MAP vaccine could cure 100% of Crohns Patients, I think it's definitely possible that a certain subset of the people who have Crohns could be enormously helped. Lets NOT FORGET, that MAP and Crohns has been proven by both Koch's Postulate and Relman's criteria.

Also, I did nothing but eat steak, spinach, chicken, and green beans for an entire 3 months and I still ended up getting sick. So I guess my anecdote cancels out your anecdote.

I think it's time to give Dr. JHT a chance to see if his vaccine can help. He's been working on this for 30+ years and I think we owe it to the man to bring this vaccine to human trials. What's the worst that could happen? It not work? What's the best case scenario? It does work? Do you know what that means? Game changer. Pro's > Cons

Post Edited (Poppysocks) : 8/23/2014 10:41:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/25/2014 8:50 PM (GMT 0)
I wanted to add that the GI I spoke with offered to prescribe me the anti-biotic cocktail that is currently targeted at treating MAP even though she wasn't too excited about anti-MAP treatments but she said it was something like a two year treatment course and the drugs were specifically contraindicated to pregnancy.

Given my treatment options at the moment- subpar Simponi or Entyvio (which I'm wary about due to its newness and its similarity to Tysabri even though there haven't been any PML cases reported)- I did think about the anti-MAP cocktail but the no preggo thing was a deal breaker for me at this point.

Honestly, I couldn't care less what causes Crohn's. I agree it's vital to know, but for my life personally, I don't care. I already have it. I just want better tx options and -dare I say it- a cure. I don't care where that comes from. As I have pointed out, though, I am of the firm belief that while diet MAY be able help symptoms, it is NOT a cure and probably never will be. Even if the disaster that has become the standard diet for many people in industrialized nations (processed, high sugar, etc.) is linked to the development of IBD in those nations' populations, I'm not convinced that changing diet at this stage of the game would make a difference for those who already have it. In other words- even if diet IS the cause, I don't feel it could be the cure. That said, if MAP is the answer, I'll jump on board like every other sufferer out there.

Lastly, @Usher- It took me calling you a jerk to get you to respond with a decently well-thought out post (even if it was solely nitpicking my typos) but you have to realize that the post before that you called me an arrogant ****. I don't know what word you actually used since it was filtered by HW, but I can only think of a few four-letters that fit the context of that sentence and you have to understand that calling someone a "C yoU Next Tuesday" in one breath and then sending them an offsite message for polite discourse in the next makes you SEEM a bit...well, crazy. If you can't understand why that sort of behavior would make one wary, then I don't know how else to explain it. Don't get me wrong, if you want to call me names, that's fine w/ me. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I truly believe that. And I'm used to people not liking my somewhat brash personality (made even moreso by the anonymity of the internet). But you have to know that calling someone a name like that and being generally out of line with the threats doesn't engender the idea that you then want to have a polite, civil conversation with them.
Posted 7/20/2015 8:50 PM (GMT 0)
crohnsmapvaccine.com/pdfs/CrohnsMAPVaccine_MediaRelease_June2015_share.pdf
Posted 8/9/2015 6:02 PM (GMT 0)
An update from the Lab 4th August 2015

crohnsmapvaccine.com/an-update-from-the-lab-4th-august-2015/
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