Healing your gut with Diet

Popular IBD Diet Associated With Increased Microbial Diversity:
www.gastroendonews.com//ViewArticle.aspx?ses=ogst&d=In+the+News&d_id=187&i=January+2014&i_id=1026&a_id=24751

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Now - The reality is the "SCD Diet" does not directly alter the bacterial flora as one might get the impression from the above etc.... What actually occurs (and is common to all the diets, SCD, FoodMap, GAPS, etc etc) is that there is simply a dramatic reduction in "food antigen" or dietary antigens by following these diets. The reduction in dietary based antigens from these diets reduces inflammation and the reduction in the inflammatory response allows for the change and subsequent "increase" in bacterial diversity.

It's the inflammatory response to both bacterial and dietary antigens that cause a lot of the continuing damage in those of us with Crohn's - regardless of the "type" or classification of Crohns.

The diet - SCD, GAPS, IBD Aid - whatever one chooses isn't so much the important part. It's simply the reduction in dietary antigens that brings about the benefits. Though it can be very tricky to find the culprits on an individual basis to each person.

Diet can and will play a pivotal role in people's when viewed/understood appropriately.


@dfdavedf - I agree people should never outright disregard diet.

GM Ambling

First of all I appreciate the tone. We can disagree and be civil, as we should be. Thank you.

To clarify my history.
I went on pred and pentasa and SCD virtually the day I was diagnosed. I got peripheral neuropathy and went on a fast taper. I then took entocort for I think for around a year, starting at 9 mgs moving to 3. This describes my first 1 1/2 years of med. I stopped steroids at about 1 1/2 years but kept pentasa at 3 x 500. I added LDN 2 - 3 years ago. Currently I take pentasa 3 x 500 and LDN 4.5

Re SCD> I did not know as much as required to be successful with SCD so made little progress the first 8 months. I figured out my mistakes, changed what I was doing and almost immediately started to improve between month 8 and 9. It was this improvement which allowed me to reduce / eliminate the drugs.

I had my first follow up colonoscopy about 3 years after the first. My guts were perfectly clear. They remain so. I reference healing because what happened was much more than symptom control.

As per the diagnosis, if it is questionable. As I think about it I have seen 5 GIs. They all came ot the same conclusion. I asked if there was any chance they got it wrong and they came to the same conclusion. I do not know enough to argue with them or you. I will ask again and ask my current GI, to review my file and be ready to discuss. I so hope you are right, but my guess is I am not communicating all the information, and that if I did so you would not be questioning my diagnosis, but who knows.

I use myself as an example of healing using SCD to hopefully motivate others to look at the research. My transformation is pretty huge. However, folks should not make a decision based on one person. You are correct in saying that there is a potential it was all by fluke that after years of being sick my gut healed at the exact time I changed my diet. Of course I do not believe that. They should look at the research.

it seems to me there are two sides to this argument. On one side there is the research, which is showing great results, the fact that leading institutions are incorporating it into their protocol. In addition every time you look at what is happening I see this huge focus on gut bacteria. I have concluded supported by my personal experience and the research that the research is compelling and logical, and worthy to reviewed as an option for Crohn's folks.

I would characterize your position, as I have looked at the premises of the diet. They do not make sense are not logical. The research is spotty at best, so I do not accept this as a viable option.

It is clear you have read about the diet. Did you also read the research?

If yes, then I 100% respect your opinion and decision. I cannot argue with you on the scientific logic. I can paraphrase what others have said. It makes sense to me. The world is exploding with research on this topic all with similar conclusions. But personally I do not know enough to go point by point. To me ultimately I am less interested in the point by point science than I am interested in the results. Not saying this is best, but just me.

Assuming you read the research, then I think this is a healthy discussion that serves the community here.

Thank you
Dave

Also, if gut bacteria is so critical to health, can somebody explain to me how humans manage to survive very well without a colon (where about 99% of the gut's bacteria reside)?

I think all this business about gut bacteria is so much barking up the wrong tree. I hate to be controversial but it is not a new theory.

Colitis, Morell reported, was Hitler`s most persistent complaint. Both men believed that the bacteria in Hitler`s digestive tract were not in the proper proportions and that this was the cause of the problem. With Morell, Hitler would alternate between questions about his intestinal bacteria and complaints about his cowardly generals. ``He was sure his gut would feel better if only he could execute those who had betrayed him. But in truth, he probably had an irritable bowel syndrome, and the stress aggravated it beyond his endurance.

Source: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-10-14/features/8503090891_1_dr-theodor-morell-dr-ernst-gunther-schenck-drug-firms/2

Frankly, I think gut bacteria is about as likely to be the cause of Crohn's as MAP is, but we are clearly stuck with the hype for the forseeable future.

As usual NCOT, you take the discussion off track and make some snide comments. I know some support your rudeness I do not. When you address me I intend to call you on it every time. Please address me without snide comments or better yet, do not address me at all. You have issues. Take them out on someone else.

You bring nothing to this review of research discussion.


"Also, I remember Dave asking if he could have his Crohn's diagnosis removed in the past. His diagnosis was apparently questionable to him back then, but not now. Interesting."

IamCurious

How did you find the right mix of vitamins and supplements that worked for you? Did you work with a specific doctor or was it trial and error?

Thanks,

Dawn

A san example, You said
"Saccharin and other artificial sweeteners have been shown to restrict beneficial bacteria and encourage bad bacteria living in the gut. But that research came after Elaine Gottschall's book."

I am sure this is from some research you read. Can you add the link please,

beave said...
I've had Crohn's for 27 years now. On no meds and have had no surgeries. Dave just HAS to believe it's because of my special diet, right?

AND HE'S RIGHT!11!

Buy my upcoming book where I tell you how I treat my Crones' disease with diet!!!11!1!!

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On a more serious note, at the last conference I attended, a small study was discussed, in which diet had a tremendously positive impact on IBD. But the diet was incredibly restrictive - no packaged food of any kind, no dairy products at all, and no grains. Essentially nothing could be eaten but fresh fruits and vegetables, and freshly killed and prepared meats. Anything that comes in a bag, a box, a bottle, a container of any kind was restricted. The participants found it a near full-time job maintaining the diet through the study and nearly all could NOT maintain the diet afterwards, even though it was apparently helping them.

Hey beave, I was re-reading the thread and just noticed this paragraph for the first time. It reminds me of a Japanese study on the effects of a semi-vegetarian diet (SVD) in preventing relapse in Crohn's disease. "Semi" vegetarian was more like 95% vegetarian and rather low in calories (1700 calories a day).

Pretty picture of food. Yum. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877178/figure/F2/
The whole article: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877178/

Rice and milk/eggs were allowed, though. Anyway, small sample size, but the diet did appear to work for those who had the will to stay on it for two years. And although unappetizing-looking to say the least, I'd rather follow that diet than one with zero grains or dairy.

dfdavedf said...
NCOT

You make pronouncements but never support it with research. A simple example is "The SCD is a 40-year-old diet which is looking increasingly out-of-date:". Says who?? You?? I posted very recent research completed by Rush, UC Davis, Harvard in this thread re SCD. They do not think it is out-of-date... I posted the available proof supporting my position, you make pronouncements based on ????

Me, ambling, IamCurious, beave, half the UC board.

It's a 50-year-old diet, dude, based on 50-year-old science. The Japanese semi-vegetarian diet that I posted about is considerably more recent.

m8, are you deliberately trolling me or did you not see the very clear link to the Japanese study that I posted?

@Ambling

Nice try but again you post incorrect and very false information in your nice little numbered list above. You seem to do this a lot on here.

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In regards to NCOT - "IBD tends to lead to structural, permanent damage if untreated for any length of time."

A reduction in bacterial diversity also causes structural changes in both the colon and small intestine. A simple course of antibiotics can do this as well. Restoration of the microflora can reverse the damage and structural morphology. This has also been shown quite recently via a virus in a mouse model of IBD as well (the virus restoring the structural damage in place of the bacterial flora which is pretty amazing) - But other studies have also looked at the structural changes caused by decreased floral diversity.

The two are interrelated. Many recognize this now.

Dawnc77 said...

How did you find the right mix of vitamins and supplements that worked for you? Did you work with a specific doctor or was it trial and error?

Trial and error along vigilant monitoring of foods consumed, a food diary. But that is much harder when in a flare because everything feels toxic. It works best when in remission and I feel symptoms coming on after eating a specific food. I could experience normal stools for weeks with no urgency, but a Starbucks hot cocoa at lunch will give me bloody diarrhea that evening, or the next day.

Being in denial I had to test my favorite foods, like pizza, several times before I finally got it thru my head that I have to give them up.

As far as supplements go I have been taking tons of them for years but I only listed some that I feel help with IBD. DGL licorice chewed 20 minutes before meals and bedtime really helped alleviate severe pain during a flare.

Boswellia and curcumin don't help much in remission but they really do speed up recovery after eating something bad. Of course if I continue to eat pizza or hot cocoa then everything is out the window.

Fish oil, vitamin D, and probiotics are super for IBD and I take them every day to help maintain remission. But to be honest I really don't see how K2, Vit E complex, or magnesium help directly with IBD but I take them mostly for health reasons.

CMark said...
Nice try but again you post incorrect and very false information in your nice little numbered list above. You seem to do this a lot on here.

I really don't know what you are talking about. Whether you agree or not I thought Ambling gave some excellent points questioning the “science” behind the SCD.

I hope the last comment reads as desired, that is respectful and wishing to have a fact based discussion.